2014 Offseason Thread

[a700hitter]

'Betts and Owens is about all we have'

 

Clearly you don't follow the Sox prospects.

 

Aside from them, what about Swihart, Devers, Margot, Rodriguez, Johnson, Chavis, and Barnes?

 

That's 10 prospects we can deal from. Not 2.

 

You wouldn't be upset if our future SS nets us Cole Hamels?? That would be the most lopsided trade the Sox have made since the Varitek trade, except this time in the wrong direction.

Clearly, I do follow their prospects. If you want to net Cole Hamels, it will cost Betts or Owens and a handful of the others. The others are not blue-chippers. They would be second or third pieces in a larger package.

 

Cole Hamels is not Heathcliff Slocumb.

[a700hitter]

No he's not. Victorino will be either traded for pennies on the dollar, or he will be the Sox 4th OF. He makes no sense to have on this team with Cespedes, Betts, Castillo, and Craig all as RHH outfielders, and Vic is virtually a RHH OF now too.

 

No chance he starts in the OF. The starting outfield will be Cespedes - Castillo - Betts

Trading Victorino for pennies on the dollar would be silly since he is the best OFer on the team when healthy. If healthy, making him a 4th OFer is even silier.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Trading Victorino for pennies on the dollar would be silly since he is the best OFer on the team when healthy. If healthy, making him a 4th OFer is even silier.

 

Vic is too much of an injury risk to count on as a starter and especially trade depth to retain.

 

Trade Owens, Barnes, Craig, and Middlebrooks for Hamels. Amaro has an infatuation w Middlebrooks.

Give Shields 4/76.

Sign Sandoval to 4/48, he can play 1B/3B/DH (once ortiz retires) so he won't block Cecchini.

[Elktonnick]

Victorino is one of the straws that stirs the drink for the Sox when he plays. The only question is can he stay healthy. If he is healthy then I agree he is my starting rightfielder.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Clearly, I do follow their prospects. If you want to net Cole Hamels, it will cost Betts or Owens and a handful of the others. The others are not blue-chippers. They would be second or third pieces in a larger package.

 

Cole Hamels is not Heathcliff Slocumb.

 

Eduardo Rodriguez, Blake Swihart, Rafael Devers, and Manuel Margot are all blue chippers

[Elktonnick]

I don't see the Sox trading Owens under any circumstances just like they resisted trading either Lester or Buchholtz under similar circumstances years ago.

[a700hitter]

Eduardo Rodriguez, Blake Swihart, Rafael Devers, and Manuel Margot are all blue chippers

Maybe you get Hamels for all 4 of them. Take Swihart out of that mix, and you have to add in Owens or Betts to go with 2 of the other 3. A blue chipper in my mind is a guy who can get you a starting major leaguer without adding to the deal. That is my definition. An example of what I am talking about is Wil Myers for James Shields. We don't have anyone other than Betts or Owens who can get us someone of that caliber. If we don't want to part with either of them, don't expect any big trades unless guys are included from our major league roster.

[Palodios]

Maybe you get Hamels for all 4 of them. Take Swihart out of that mix, and you have to add in Owens or Betts to go with 2 of the other 3. A blue chipper in my mind is a guy who can get you a starting major leaguer without adding to the deal. That is my definition. An example of what I am talking about is Wil Myers for James Shields.

 

Will Myers doesn't fit here. Jake Odorizzi has been a top 100 prospect the last four years, and pitched a full season at a 4.00 ERA this year -- the guy was not a throw-in. Hamels will be expensive, but his contract will lower demand a bit.

[a700hitter]

Will Myers doesn't fit here. Jake Odorizzi has been a top 100 prospect the last four years, and pitched a full season at a 4.00 ERA this year -- the guy was not a throw-in. Hamels will be expensive, but his contract will lower demand a bit.

True, good point. But I don't think we have 2 guys to net us Hamels outside of Betts and either Owens or Swihart.

[Palodios]

True, good point. But I don't think we have 2 guys to net us Hamels outside of Betts and either Owens or Swihart.

 

Hamels will be a tough trade. I would imagine one of Betts/Eduardo/Swihart would need to headline. While most of the Red Sox's young players have looked pitiful, maybe there is one guy that their scouts love and believe they can fix to turn into a solid contributor. I also think the Phillies may be looking to dump payroll onto the Sox.

 

I'm thinking Eduardo/Trey Ball + one of the guys who has struggled in the majors for Hamel and some combination of Papelbon/Ruiz.

[a700hitter]

Hamels will be a tough trade. I would imagine one of Betts/Eduardo/Swihart would need to headline. While most of the Red Sox's young players have looked pitiful, maybe there is one guy that their scouts love and believe they can fix to turn into a solid contributor. I also think the Phillies may be looking to dump payroll onto the Sox.

 

I'm thinking Eduardo/Trey Ball + one of the guys who has struggled in the majors for Hamel and some combination of Papelbon/Ruiz.

The more payroll we take the less we would have to pay in talent. From what I have been reading is that the Phillies are more interested in getting a haul of talent than in salary relief.

[Bellhorn04]

The Sox FO will look like clowns if they trade off some top prospects for Hamels while letting Lester walk.

[a700hitter]

The Sox FO will look like clowns if they trade off some top prospects for Hamels while letting Lester walk.

Agreed

[Spudboy]

Clearly, I do follow their prospects. If you want to net Cole Hamels, it will cost Betts or Owens and a handful of the others. The others are not blue-chippers. They would be second or third pieces in a larger package.

 

Cole Hamels is not Heathcliff Slocumb.

 

I'll be very pissed if the Sox trade Betts for anyone! Except MAYBE Stanton, and I don't see him being moved anytime before the 2015 deadline.

 

As I see it, the Sox should not have to trade for front line pitchers at all. They should aggressively attack the free agent market first with guys like Lester and Shields as primary targets. If that fails and the need for viable pitchers to be 1 and 2 still exists then, and only then, try to trade.

 

The Sox have many chips with which to play the trade game even after some of our glorious prospects have fizzled or crashed and burned. The FO has to open up the purse and SPEND!!!!!! They were willing to do this to get Lackey and Crawford. Now when the need is urgent, they better not come up cheap.

 

That's my opinion, anyway!

[a700hitter]

Vic is too much of an injury risk to count on as a starter and especially trade depth to retain.

 

Trade Owens, Barnes, Craig, and Middlebrooks for Hamels. Amaro has an infatuation w Middlebrooks.

Give Shields 4/76.

Sign Sandoval to 4/48, he can play 1B/3B/DH (once ortiz retires) so he won't block Cecchini.

Barnes, Craig, and Middlebrooks might get you Jason Hamel, not Cole, even if Owens isw part of the package. The Phillies have 2 young third basemen that are better than WMB. Craig stinks, and Barnes meh.

[seabeachfred]

I'll be very pissed if the Sox trade Betts for anyone! Except MAYBE Stanton, and I don't see him being moved anytime before the 2015 deadline.

 

As I see it, the Sox should not have to trade for front line pitchers at all. They should aggressively attack the free agent market first with guys like Lester and Shields as primary targets. If that fails and the need for viable pitchers to be 1 and 2 still exists then, and only then, try to trade.

 

The Sox have many chips with which to play the trade game even after some of our glorious prospects have fizzled or crashed and burned. The FO has to open up the purse and SPEND!!!!!! They were willing to do this to get Lackey and Crawford. Now when the need is urgent, they better not come up cheap.

 

That's my opinion, anyway!

 

That's pretty much my opinion too Spud but the fly in the ointment is that Prune Face is loath to spend money on top quality pitching. Hell, he let Lester go, he let Lackey go, and now he is going to ante up for pitching? I personally think Cherington, under orders from Lucchino and Henry, will go dumpster dumping for the likes of mediocrities like Masterson and his ilk and then try and get the fans to drink the Kool Aid as they attempted when they let Bay walk after he hit 36 homers and drove in 119 runs in '09 and then tried to convince us that we'd be better off with the fast fading Mike Cameron, who never could hit and suddenly forgot to field. Hope I'm incorrect but I think I saw Prune Face Henry's true colors when he refused to ante up for Jon Lester. The blunder may haunt us for the next half-dozen years.

[Spudboy]

Here is a nice article that puts into focus the Sox off season challenges. Speir discusses all the usual talksox suspects with objectivity.

 

http://m.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/alex-speier/2014/09/29/its-going-get-crazy-red-sox-position-position-

[Palodios]

That's pretty much my opinion too Spud but the fly in the ointment is that Prune Face is loath to spend money on top quality pitching. Hell, he let Lester go, he let Lackey go, and now he is going to ante up for pitching? I personally think Cherington, under orders from Lucchino and Henry, will go dumpster dumping for the likes of mediocrities like Masterson

 

A recent quote from Werner makes it sounds like they're opening the paycheck for pitching.

 

“Hopefully we can get right back into it if we fix the top of the rotation,” Red Sox COO Sam Kennedy said.

 

“That’s absolutely our intention,” team chairman Tom Werner said on Sunday about whether he believed that the Sox could build a rotation to return to contention in 2015. “We have the resources. Hopefully it will all fall into place soon.”

[Spudboy]

That's pretty much my opinion too Spud but the fly in the ointment is that Prune Face is loath to spend money on top quality pitching. Hell, he let Lester go, he let Lackey go, and now he is going to ante up for pitching? I personally think Cherington, under orders from Lucchino and Henry, will go dumpster dumping for the likes of mediocrities like Masterson and his ilk and then try and get the fans to drink the Kool Aid as they attempted when they let Bay walk after he hit 36 homers and drove in 119 runs in '09 and then tried to convince us that we'd be better off with the fast fading Mike Cameron, who never could hit and suddenly forgot to field. Hope I'm incorrect but I think I saw Prune Face Henry's true colors when he refused to ante up for Jon Lester. The blunder may haunt us for the next half-dozen years.

 

Wow Fred you managed to post an entire paragraph without making disparaging comments about Bradley and XB. Congrats!!!

 

I mentioned quite a while back that I though it possible if not likely that the Sox would pursue and sign mid-tier pitching talent such as Masterson. If they do, I hope it is AFTER they sign Lester or Shields or both. I would not mind seeing Masterson back but only if he is slotted for no higher than #3.

 

I think that we all need to just relax and watch it all unfold. The Sox have said that they have a ton of money to spend and that they intend on using it to lure top tier pitching talent. I'm going to be majorly pissed if they drop the ball in this regard. One thing that makes me sort of nervous is Cherrington's comment that there are several alternative methods to building a rotation in addition to getting a #1 and #2.

 

I'd like to wring his neck for having said this because it would be a nightmare scenario that would likely see my even tempered self punching the refrigerator!

[St. Louis Carter]

Lackey pitched well tonite, 1 ER in 7 IP. The mighty bucks Dodgers face elimination tomorrow.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Outside of a deal for Stanton/Sale, Bogaerts and Betts are going nowhere. Cherrington made that clear when he mentioned them both by name in his presser, saying they are part of the nucleus of this teams future.

 

Believe it or not, our FO is a very smart FO for the most part. They are not going to go nuts and trade away the future of this team if the return isn't worth it.

 

As a side note - a guy I would call everyday about as the backup C/1B is John Jaso. He would be a great fit to split time with Vazquez, he's a very good LHH, which this team needs too.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I'll be very pissed if the Sox trade Betts for anyone! Except MAYBE Stanton, and I don't see him being moved anytime before the 2015 deadline.

 

As I see it, the Sox should not have to trade for front line pitchers at all. They should aggressively attack the free agent market first with guys like Lester and Shields as primary targets. If that fails and the need for viable pitchers to be 1 and 2 still exists then, and only then, try to trade.

 

The Sox have many chips with which to play the trade game even after some of our glorious prospects have fizzled or crashed and burned. The FO has to open up the purse and SPEND!!!!!! They were willing to do this to get Lackey and Crawford. Now when the need is urgent, they better not come up cheap.

 

That's my opinion, anyway!

 

Well said, Spud.

 

Don't attack the trade market until you absolutely have to (unless a stud becomes available, i.e. Strasburg, Sale, etc, who is on cheap dollars for a few years).

 

I would much, much rather see the Sox sign Lester, Shields, Sandoval, trade for Jaso, and call it good. Keep all your prospects for that midseason blockbuster that pushes you over the edge. 100% agree with you.

[a700hitter]

Any interest in J.P. Arrencibia?

[jacksonianmarch]

Any interest in J.P. Arrencibia?

 

Maybe as a broadcaster. I'm sure he could be better than Waldman

[BSN07]

Any interest in J.P. Arrencibia?

Kinda, but they need a LHH C.

Maybe as a broadcaster. I'm sure he could be better than Waldman

lol

[seabeachfred]

Kinda, but they need a LHH C.

 

lol

 

If they're patient and will wait a year they will not only have a LHH catcher but one who can hit RH too, has power and is better all around than the one we have now. Name is Blake Swihart and we had better not trade this guy. He is no Bradley or Bogaerts, two miserable disappointment, but a real top of the mark player. He is compared favorably with Buster Posey and that's good enough for me.

[jacksonianmarch]

You have no idea if Swihart is gonna hit at the big league level, though. Temper your expectations. Also, giving up on Bogaertd this early is asinine Fred. Most kids his age are getting drafted, not playing in the bigs

[seabeachfred]

You have no idea if Swihart is gonna hit at the big league level, though. Temper your expectations. Also, giving up on Bogaertd this early is asinine Fred. Most kids his age are getting drafted, not playing in the bigs

 

Perhaps......but I saw enough of him failing miserably when he came to bat with runners on base. He would get hits with no one on time and again and then come up crapola when there was a chance to get a hit when it counted. Except for a very small window in early September that was his MO from the first game of the year. I really believe the Red Sox had better have a Plan B in case he come a cropper again next season. Remember, he didn't field too well either and wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed running the bases. Maybe it was his youth but there were things about what I saw in him that worries the hell out of me. And I'll bet you that Swihart will be a more successful player than Bogaerts will.

[a700hitter]

You have no idea if Swihart is gonna hit at the big league level, though. Temper your expectations. Also, giving up on Bogaertd this early is asinine Fred. Most kids his age are getting drafted, not playing in the bigs

And he should be in the minors with the other kids his age until he is big league ready.

[BSN07]

Swihart shouldn't stop them from pursuing a LHH C for 2015 tho. They should be able to find someone on a 1 maybe 2 year deal.