2014 Roster Projections

[SoxFanForsyth]

The mental masturbation over Stanton is an exercise in futility. The Sox won't sell the farm to get him, and the Marlins will likely not trade him anyway.

 

Perhaps you're right on the Marlins not giving him up.

 

But there have already been reports that the Sox will do whatever it takes to get him. I'm sure they won't give up Bogaerts but outside of that, I don't think anyone is off limits.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I just hope the Sox win the offseason like the Jays did last year and the Marlins did the year before that!

 

Huge difference between winning the offseason and landing a young superstar

[sk7326]

1. Stanton, age 20-23 by wRC+: 118, 141, 156, 135

ManRam, age 20-23 by wRC+: 30, 120, 145, 140

 

Did you like Manny's 2001 season with the Red Sox? .301/.405/.609, 41 HR, 125 RBI? He posted a 156 wRC+ that year. He was 56% better than the league in wOBA. Showed the same level of dominance as Stanton did at the age of 22.

 

So....yeah. Can't really say that he's not as good of a hitter when he's actually outperformed Manny thus far in his career as it relates to the league. Given, Manny probably wasn't juicing at that point, but even without the juice, Manny was a generational hitter. Stanton is the same.

 

2. Until you can quantify the actual value of each of the individual prospects future success (i.e., predict the future), you're never going to be able to stack value up properly against the price tag.

 

Stanton has played more than 125 games exactly one time in his career. This is not Andruw Jones who was in his 4th year as a durable starter and heading towards "best defensive outfielder of his generation". This is not Adrian Gonzalez, for whom most of the 30 GMs would have made that deal given the circumstances. That he fell off of a cliff in 2012 is not something typical of a 30 year old ... certainly not one coming off of the 27-29 seasons he had. Stanton could be a cornerstone OF, but his injury history is a concern - and corner outfielders are rarely worth emptying the farm for. He is a strong on-base guy, good hitter with 80 power ... but he has had trouble staying healthy and adds no defensive value. The Marlins would need a Bogaerts to justify the deal to a very skeptical public - but he does not warrant it.

[User Name]

Perhaps you're right on the Marlins not giving him up.

 

But there have already been reports that the Sox will do whatever it takes to get him. I'm sure they won't give up Bogaerts but outside of that, I don't think anyone is off limits.

 

"Reports". Not something the Red Sox have come out and said.

[SoxFanForsyth]

"Reports". Not something the Red Sox have come out and said.

 

When have they ever come out and said anything they've ever done??

[SoxFanForsyth]

Stanton has played more than 125 games exactly one time in his career. This is not Andruw Jones who was in his 4th year as a durable starter and heading towards "best defensive outfielder of his generation". This is not Adrian Gonzalez, for whom most of the 30 GMs would have made that deal given the circumstances. That he fell off of a cliff in 2012 is not something typical of a 30 year old ... certainly not one coming off of the 27-29 seasons he had. Stanton could be a cornerstone OF, but his injury history is a concern - and corner outfielders are rarely worth emptying the farm for. He is a strong on-base guy, good hitter with 80 power ... but he has had trouble staying healthy and adds no defensive value. The Marlins would need a Bogaerts to justify the deal to a very skeptical public - but he does not warrant it.

 

Adrian Gonzalez was also coming off front shoulder surgery which has been known to completely zap power, we can't just ignore that.

[Palodios]

I just hope the Sox win the offseason like the Jays did last year and the Marlins did the year before that!

 

The Red Sox won the offseason last year by signing the Cherrington Seven, not the Jays.

[mvp 78]

The Red Sox won the offseason last year by signing the Cherrington Seven, not the Jays.

 

No one on here said they had the best offseason at the time.

[User Name]

When have they ever come out and said anything they've ever done??

 

Adrian Gonzalez?

[marklmw]

If Sox sign Drew & Napoli.

 

Package: Gomes, Carp, WMB, Webster for Stanton

[SoxFanForsyth]

Adrian Gonzalez?

 

Link please.

[SoxFanForsyth]

If Sox sign Drew & Napoli.

 

Package: Gomes, Carp, WMB, Webster for Stanton

 

Can't tell if serious....

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

If Sox sign Drew & Napoli.

 

Package: Gomes, Carp, WMB, Webster for Stanton

Shirley you can't be serious.

[sk7326]

Adrian Gonzalez was also coming off front shoulder surgery which has been known to completely zap power, we can't just ignore that.

 

We can't ... but Gonzalez had an MVP-caliber 2011 season and power was not a problem. The injury hampered his power somewhat maybe - but that was only a modest part of him turning from a potential MVP into Nick Swisher overnight.

[User Name]

Link please.

 

Is this serious? You know as well as i do that Epstein made his man-crush on Gonzalez public before 2010. Also, ass horsefaced Teixeira to the list of guys they flat-out said they wanted.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Is this serious? You know as well as i do that Epstein made his man-crush on Gonzalez public before 2010. Also, ass horsefaced Teixeira to the list of guys they flat-out said they wanted.

 

It was reported by beat writers, but neither Theo nor the Red Sox organization came out.

 

It was reported just as the Sox interest in Stanton has been reported but never confirmed.

[User Name]

It was reported by beat writers, but neither Theo nor the Red Sox organization came out.

 

It was reported just as the Sox interest in Stanton has been reported but never confirmed.

 

Are you seriously seriously going to make me look for the links? Theo confirmed his interest in trading for Gonzalez prior to the 2010 season. Also, again, Horseface.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Are you seriously seriously going to make me look for the links? Theo confirmed his interest in trading for Gonzalez prior to the 2010 season. Also, again, Horseface.

 

I don't remember either of these confirmations at all. I have never heard the Sox say they 'are going after player X' prior to any resolution to the negotiations. Saying 'player X would be a good fit' is not even close to being the same either

[User Name]

I don't remember either of these confirmations at all. I have never heard the Sox say they 'are going after player X' prior to any resolution to the negotiations. Saying 'player X would be a good fit' is not even close to being the same either

 

You obviously don't, since it doesn't fit your Stanton narrative. It never happened then, let's leave it at that.

[SoxFanForsyth]

You obviously don't, since it doesn't fit your Stanton narrative. It never happened then, let's leave it at that.

 

It's not the narrative that has anything to do with anything. It's that the Sox are always cryptic about any moves they make before it's final. They won't even comment on deals that are going through physicals

[redsoxrules]

I clearly remember theo being public about wanting Gonzo and Horseface

[User Name]

I clearly remember theo being public about wanting Gonzo and Horseface

 

Indeed. It simply doesn't fit the narrative.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I clearly remember theo being public about wanting Gonzo and Horseface

 

Before the negotiations ended??

 

I remember him admitting to have gone after Tex and about Gonzalez being a good for after the 2009 season, that's it.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Not to mention that this isn't Theo, this is Cherrington, who was as silent as he could possibly be about the Dodgers trade until it was finalized.

 

But no, stick to your narrative excuse

[mvp 78]

Not to mention that this isn't Theo, this is Cherrington, who was as silent as he could possibly be about the Dodgers trade until it was finalized.

 

But no, stick to your narrative excuse

 

That's because it was John Henry's deal!!!

 

[Palodios]

Not to mention that this isn't Theo, this is Cherrington, who was as silent as he could possibly be about the Dodgers trade until it was finalized.

 

But no, stick to your narrative excuse

 

So far it seems like Ben doesn't mancrush as easily as Theo. He seems much more cool and calculated, although I fully admit that is an weightless opinion.

[User Name]

Not to mention that this isn't Theo, this is Cherrington, who was as silent as he could possibly be about the Dodgers trade until it was finalized.

 

But no, stick to your narrative excuse

 

You said the Red Sox FO (which is largely comprised of the same members mind you) doesn't tip their hands when they want players. I provided examples where they have. Cherington's been on the job for two years, so we can't make an accurate assessment on this specific topic.

 

However, the point is that it doesn't fit your narrative because i challenged your "reports" that the Sox would empty the farm for Stanton. After looking at Cherington's approach the last two seasons, let's be honest here.....you're in for disappointment if your expect them to empty both the farm and the bank for a COF with good power but bad defense and health issues.

[SoxFanForsyth]

You said the Red Sox FO (which is largely comprised of the same members mind you) doesn't tip their hands when they want players. I provided examples where they have. Cherington's been on the job for two years, so we can't make an accurate assessment on this specific topic.

 

However, the point is that it doesn't fit your narrative because i challenged your "reports" that the Sox would empty the farm for Stanton. After looking at Cherington's approach the last two seasons, let's be honest here.....you're in for disappointment if your expect them to empty both the farm and the bank for a COF with good power but bad defense and health issues.

 

I still don't remember any pre-deal/post-negotiation disclosure of interest by the Red Sox directly. So my point stands that it hasn't happened.

 

And your whole point was that Theo disclosed his interest in both Tex and AGon. He's not here, that was my only point of the comment.

[SoxFanForsyth]

And I've given you the reports so many times before.

 

Here.

 

http://joefrisaro.mlblogs.com/2013/07/30/could-red-sox-sway-marlins-to-move-stanton/

 

http://www.overthemonster.com/2013/7/30/4571362/red-sox-trade-rumors-giancarlo-stanton-marlins

 

You act as if I just make up these reports out of thin air. You refuse to believe reported information. If anyone is trying to follow a narrative and refuses to accept information because it doesn't fit a narrative, it's you.

[jung]

Jeez I have to say that from where I sat, Theo had been lusting after AGons for a long long time. So much so that when the deal was struck the tone of many of the pieces written was like "Theo finally gets his man". Here is one of the ESPN articles that talked about the Sox trying to get Agons out of SD for two years before the deal was done.

 

Hoping for happily ever after

The Red Sox-Gonzalez marriage is clearly based on respect, trust

Updated: December 6, 2010, 6:17 PM ET

By Chris Forsberg | ESPNBoston.com

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BOSTON -- The old joke is that you can always spot a man on his honeymoon because of the way the newlywed plays with his wedding band, still trying to get used to the new piece of jewelry on his ring finger.

 

So there was Adrian Gonzalez, sitting at the podium inside Fenway Park's media room on Monday as he was introduced to the local media after officially being acquired from the San Diego Padres in exchange for a package of minor leaguers, fidgeting at times with his ring as he answered questions about a new partnership.

 

That ring has been on his finger for seven years, ever since 2003, when he married his wife, Betsy, who sat clad in Red Sox red a few feet away. But it almost seemed appropriate that Gonzalez was playing with the ring on the day he married into the Red Sox family after a long (and often public) courtship.

 

[+] Enlarge

AP Photo/Josh Reynolds

"He grew up wanting to be a Red Sox and had his eye on being a part of what we've had going on here for a long time," GM Theo Epstein said of Adrian Gonzalez at the press conference Monday.

On one side of Gonzalez, Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein chronicled the numerous attempts over the last two years to pry Gonzalez from his hometown Padres. To the other side, Red Sox (and former Marlins) owner John Henry detailed how the front office staff in Florida gushed about Gonzalez's potential while still in high school a decade ago.

 

Meanwhile, Gonzalez talked about growing up a Red Sox fan, rooting for Boston as his American League team of choice, in part due to San Diego native Ted Williams, who Gonzalez's father would spend hours relaying stories about.

 

All of which left Epstein calling the acquisition of Gonzalez a match made in heaven.

 

"This is something he wanted; he grew up wanting to be a Red Sox and had his eye on being a part of what we've had going on here for a long time," said Epstein. "It seems like Adrian was meant to be a Red Sox."

 

Playing with one's ring can also be a sign of nervousness, which Gonzalez clearly was on this day. His answers were often short and formulaic. He tossed in the perfunctory quip about wanting to "beat the Yanks" and repeated often how excited he is to play in Boston.

 

But Gonzalez often ceded the dance floor to Epstein, who carried the half-hour session and made sure to stress that the soft-talking Gonzalez boasts the mental makeup to thrive in a big-market city (all while stressing his ability to put up big numbers in a hitter-friendly ballpark with a big bull's-eye in left field).

 

"He's one of very best hitters in the game, left-handed hitter, tremendous ability to control the strike zone, hit for power, power to all fields," said Epstein. "His natural stroke is to the opposite field, which is a great fit for our ballpark. He hits the ball the other way, so he'll be using the wall, and we think he'll wear the wall out going from [pitcher friendly] Petco [Park] to Fenway Park."

 

While Epstein joked about Gonzalez needing to improve his speed to leg out all those doubles he'll be posting, Gonzalez smiled broadly while talking about all the potential long outs that could be erased by the Green Monster.

 

As introductory news conferences are wont to be, it was all smiles at this lovefest, even with a contract situation hanging over the room. It was fitting, again, that Epstein used catchphrases like "trust" and "good faith" to describe negotiations of a long-term deal that lapsed this weekend without an extension in place.

 

Epstein stressed that strides were made during negotiations and suggested that the progress allowed the Red Sox to pull the trigger on the trade without cold feet, even without a guarantee that this marriage will extend beyond one season.

 

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"I think we learned a lot about each other's position," said Epstein. "There was a lot of good faith that developed over the course of the negotiations and both sides have an understanding of what it will take, when the time is right. We got close to a deal, but in the end the [48-hour] window [to negotiate] lapsed and we didn't have a deal. We decided to go forward with the trade anyway, as a demonstration of the good faith that developed.

 

"Had we not gotten to know Adrian and his wife and what they're all about over the course of the weekend, we probably wouldn't have had that comfort. We think that he's such a good fit -- Adrian wants to be a Red Sox -- and we want him to be a Red Sox for a long time. We're very confident that, when the time is right, we'll be able to work something out."

 

Until then, both sides are content to enjoy the honeymoon.

 

Chris Forsberg is the Celtics reporter for ESPNBoston.com who occasionally helps out with Red Sox coverage. Follow him on Twit