2014 Roster Projections

[sk7326]

Tanaka will cost more than Darvish

 

By the happy accident of the cohort he is in, yes ... on merit it'd be hard to get to Darvish

[User Name]

I doubt 3 years is in his future. But I could definitely see a 1-year + an achievable vesting option (say 500 PAs) ... with a higher base salary (maybe starting at $13M this year and incentives to get you towards another 50% or so)

 

19 million? No thanks.

[Bellhorn04]

If it is ownerships goal to keep below the luxury tax threshold than the actual contract is what we need to be concerned about. If the Sox were to land Tanaka I seriously doubt they will keep both Dempster and Peavy.

 

I'm assuming it's also ownership's goal to make a certain amount of profit. I think they would be very much concerned about a $60 million fee they have to pay.

[sk7326]

19 million? No thanks.

 

Maybe not 50% .. but $17 or so makes sense for his productivity and the value of the productivity to Boston ... of course he'd have to get there. Certainly the idea of him getting a base salary under $10M is more or less out the window after this season. (and of course the numbers assume a team with sufficient payroll and sufficient playoff aspirations) The years on the other hand will always be an issue for him.

[marklmw]

I'm assuming it's also ownership's goal to make a certain amount of profit. I think they would be very much concerned about a $60 million fee they have to pay.

Yeah ... Ownership are a bunch of dummies. They own Liverpool AC, a NASCAR team, NESN, The Boston Red Sox and who knows what else. I think that they made their money firstly by not loosing the money that they have made. Ownership will not purchase the services of Tanaka if it does not make good business sense.

[sk7326]

I'm assuming it's also ownership's goal to make a certain amount of profit. I think they would be very much concerned about a $60 million fee they have to pay.

 

It is, but additional revenue streams are going to be opened up for them - between the infusion of the money from the new national deal as well as their own revenue bump coming off of a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP!!! season.

[sk7326]

Scanning some other places for the Red Sox to shop ... if they are on McCann as some have reported, I am not sure another "QO" player is of great interest.

 

OF is a place where some improvement is possible. Chris Young (OAK) is a good buy-low candidate to me for someone who could wrest a starting position and/or provide some righty platoon backup for Bradley.

[User Name]

Yeah ... Ownership are a bunch of dummies. They own Liverpool AC, a NASCAR team, NESN, The Boston Red Sox and who knows what else. I think that they made their money firstly by not loosing the money that they have made. Ownership will not purchase the services of Tanaka if it does not make good business sense.

 

You are making his point for him. The bolded part of your post is exactly what Bellhorn is saying.

[redsoxrules]

After the 2011 season, for which Ellsbury finished second in the American League MVP race, the Red Sox offered him a deal that fell slightly short of $100 million. The counter-offer from agent Scott Boras, according to sources, was for a deal of about $130 million. The gap in the negotiations was too large to bridge at that time.

 

I never knew this. If Sox were offering short of 100 MIL after a MVP type season their certainly not going to offer more than 100M now.

[marklmw]

You are making his point for him. The bolded part of your post is exactly what Bellhorn is saying.

 

To be perfectly honest I am tired and weary from talking about the posting fee over and again. I have read in many places where it is the objective of ownership to keep payroll under the luxury cap and I am fairly certain that the Sox make money when doing so. Paying a posting fee for Tanaka is like discussing if it is smart of ownership to buy a newspaper.

[mvp 78]

To be perfectly honest I am tired and weary from talking about the posting fee over and again. I have read in many places where it is the objective of ownership to keep payroll under the luxury cap and I am fairly certain that the Sox make money when doing so. Paying a posting fee for Tanaka is like discussing if it is smart of ownership to buy a newspaper.

 

No, it has nothing to do with buying a newspaper.

[Bellhorn04]

To be perfectly honest I am tired and weary from talking about the posting fee over and again. I have read in many places where it is the objective of ownership to keep payroll under the luxury cap and I am fairly certain that the Sox make money when doing so. Paying a posting fee for Tanaka is like discussing if it is smart of ownership to buy a newspaper.

 

Look at it this way mark - if the posting fee was a non-issue, the Sox would have been all over Darvish. Darvish's contract is 6 years, 56 million - that's chump change by today's standards. Ryan Dempster - 13.25 million a year. Yu Darvish - 9.33 million a year. What's missing from that picture?

[marklmw]

Look at it this way mark - if the posting fee was a non-issue, the Sox would have been all over Darvish. Darvish's contract is 6 years, 56 million - that's chump change by today's standards. Ryan Dempster - 13.25 million a year. Yu Darvish - 9.33 million a year. What's missing from that picture?

 

This is exactly my point Bellhorn. The Sox have a great ownership group and maybe one of the few groups in MLB where they generate significant income from other sources. To continue this discussion lets assume that the reports are true and it is ownerships goal to keep payroll beneath the luxury tax number ... maybe this is something important to ownership and the average fan knows little about from an overall accounting standpoint. How about we base our discussions on this to be the goal and that we have x dollars to spend on payroll each season and that the Sox want to put the best product on the field for their fans while keeping under this cap. And lets leave the posting fee as another expense that ownership hopes to get a fair return on ... like adding seats over the Green Monster. Sure Darvish seems underpaid and he is but only because the posting fee significantly eats into his earnings. Japanese players are paying for their price of freedom. His next contract he will not have to share with the organization that he leaves. This is why Tanaka's actually salary might be closer to 60 / 6. for the very fact of what Darvish is being paid. Sort of the reverse of the case Boras is making for Ellsbury with Crawford.

Edited November 5, 2013 by marklmw

[marklmw]

Look at it this way mark - if the posting fee was a non-issue, the Sox would have been all over Darvish. Darvish's contract is 6 years, 56 million - that's chump change by today's standards. Ryan Dempster - 13.25 million a year. Yu Darvish - 9.33 million a year. What's missing from that picture?

 

Is there a possibility that the Sox did make a run for Darvish ... I do not know one way or another. I do not know if the bids are sealed or if the clubs show up and bid against each other. Maybe the Sox pull out of Tanaka imo adding Tanaka is the best way to improve an already good team and assuming that Ellsbury is leaving he would be a nice addition. Tanaka is in his prime while some think that Ellsbury will be in the downside of his career.

Edited November 5, 2013 by marklmw

[marklmw]

No, it has nothing to do with buying a newspaper.

 

By all accounts newspapers are really bad investments. The Globe, NY Times, LA Times ... all bleeding money. You and I and most Sox fans have no idea if a 50-60M posting fee for Tanaka or Darvish or any Japanese player makes sense. One thing we do know is that the posting fee does not count against the luxury tax payroll cap which is the only number we have been told that ownership is trying to keep under.

[Orange Juiced]

Look at it this way mark - if the posting fee was a non-issue, the Sox would have been all over Darvish. Darvish's contract is 6 years, 56 million - that's chump change by today's standards. Ryan Dempster - 13.25 million a year. Yu Darvish - 9.33 million a year. What's missing from that picture?

 

How did we know that the Red Sox did not put up a pretty significant bid for Darvish, but just fell short? The posting fee for Darvish was $51.7 million. Maybe the Sox offered $40-45 million, but it just wasn't enough. Who knows? It's not like teams get to negotiate the posting fee, so the Sox couldn't see what other bids were out there and then make their move. It's a blind bidding process, so you make your bid in a sealed envelope (of sorts) and that's that - either you win the bid or you don't.

[redsoxfan3]

By all accounts newspapers are really bad investments. The Globe, NY Times, LA Times ... all bleeding money. You and I and most Sox fans have no idea if a 50-60M posting fee for Tanaka or Darvish or any Japanese player makes sense. One thing we do know is that the posting fee does not count against the luxury tax payroll cap which is the only number we have been told that ownership is trying to keep under.

 

You are right that a posting fee does not impact the luxury tax threshold, but it is still coming out of the pockets of Fenway Sports Group. Whether a posting fee "makes sense" is subjective. That is up to ownership to determine, so you are right that we, as fans, do not really know if the posting fee "makes sense." The only return on the investment of the posting fee is the reward from the production that they will get in return from Tanaka. As of right now, I do not see ownership paying 60+ million plus however many million dollars for a contract that it will take to land Tanaka. That is just my personal opinion based on where we are at in terms of starting pitching and the depth related to it. If the price is right, then I am all for it, but I don't see that being very likely.

[redsoxfan3]

Another couple of interesting topics. Pedroia is having surgery on November 12th. The surgery is supposed to be more complicated than expected, but will only require a couple of more weeks to recover. Pedroia expects to be ready for Spring Training. As tough as he is, I imagine that he will be ready for the start of Spring Training, if not, definitely before the season barring any setbacks.

 

Salty also has yet to hear from the Red Sox. It is still extremely early on in the offseason, but it is an interesting topic. He did not receive a QO and I can't imagine that he will not talk to the Red Sox at all about a new contract. The only way I do not want to resign Salty is if we can sign McCann, but only time will tell.

[marklmw]

You are right that a posting fee does not impact the luxury tax threshold, but it is still coming out of the pockets of Fenway Sports Group. Whether a posting fee "makes sense" is subjective. That is up to ownership to determine, so you are right that we, as fans, do not really know if the posting fee "makes sense." The only return on the investment of the posting fee is the reward from the production that they will get in return from Tanaka. As of right now, I do not see ownership paying 60+ million plus however many million dollars for a contract that it will take to land Tanaka. That is just my personal opinion based on where we are at in terms of starting pitching and the depth related to it. If the price is right, then I am all for it, but I don't see that being very likely.

So Fenway Sports Group is the holding company. My point earlier is that we do not know. It may even take the ownership group time to figure it out. Suppose that FSG is projecting a net profit of 200M for 2013 and a 60M posting fee for Tanaka will adjust this profit to 170M?

Ownership says yeah lets grab Tanaka if we can for the next six years because of the following:

1. We went up against 3 teams in the playoffs with better SP than we have.

2. Lester will be a FA in 2015 and he might cost us a bundle with all monies counting against the luxury cap.

3. We can eat Peavy next season and he will be an awesome # 5.

4. We can package Dempster and his 14M ... take on 4M and pick up a prospect. Nets result 10M savings and a prospect.

5. We can sign Tanaka for 60 /6. Yu Darvish type of contract.

6. We hope that Buchholz will be healthy next season but we cannot count on this.

7. We have some good young arms to join Tanaka in a post Lester era ... Owens, Barns, Doubront, etc.

 

Again I could be off on this but I know a little about finance and investments. If I am wrong I am wrong ... I am only trying to explain that after a posting fee is paid you are actually getting the player you are signing at a discount to his true value. If there was not a posting fee than Tanaka would probably go for 100 / 6. The circumstances are what they are.

[jung]

Well I don't think buying the Boston Globe really has much to do with paying the posting fee for a Japanese ballplayer.

 

John Henry's historical view on businesses that he acquires is based on building value in the business. His real payday comes on the back end when he sells whatever asset we happen to be discussing. This is really a very common approach to investing. The investor, in this case John Henry likely has an idea or ideas about how he can build asset value in the Boston Globe and buys the asset in order to execute his plan. So if the point is that buying a newspaper and just running it as the previous owner ran it looks like it would be a pretty bad investment, I would agree with that. Henry likely sees the Globe as a platform. He will bring people into the Globe that are linked to his plan and those hires will likely be the things that analysts will look at early on in order to gain some understanding for Henry's plan for the Globe.

 

Henry already owns the Red Sox and he already has people in baseball operations assigned the task of dealing with all aspects of personnel related issues. Just because the money for a posting fee does not count against the LT Tax cap does not mean that it is just funny money. Money spent is money spent and it is always a finite asset. That $60M or whatever it is could be spent any number of ways with any number of other pieces of the Fenway empire vying for those funds. It does appear that posting fees have an impact on the eventual salary negotiated with ballplayers transitioning from Japan to MLB accepting of the role the posting fee plays in providing them the means to make the transition to the best baseball league in the world. I am not convinced that the player is at that point looking so far downstream as to have calculated for his next ML contract. The chances are too great that there won't be a next contract. I hardly think it matters at the point the player has the opportunity to make the transition. At any rate if one of the views being expressed here is that the posting fee is severely discounted by the organization paying it because it does not count against the LT cap, I would disagree with that. It is discounted for sure but it is really no different from any other part of the organization looking for funds. Posting fees are likely a category that has an established limit within the Red Sox organization. BC can likely spend to that limit and will not likely be given more beyond that limit within any given time frame. In other words, the degree to which the posting fee is discounted is already known by the Sox organization. It does not matter if we know it or not. However it is not funny money. It is real money that could have been spent elsewhere if not here and I can absolutely assure you that somebody is watching how it is spent, where it is spent and the result.

[marklmw]

Well I don't think buying the Boston Globe really has much to do with paying the posting fee for a Japanese ballplayer.

 

John Henry's historical view on businesses that he acquires is based on building value in the business. His real payday comes on the back end when he sells whatever asset we happen to be discussing. This is really a very common approach to investing. The investor, in this case John Henry likely has an idea or ideas about how he can build asset value in the Boston Globe and buys the asset in order to execute his plan. So if the point is that buying a newspaper and just running it as the previous owner ran it looks like it would be a pretty bad investment, I would agree with that. Henry likely sees the Globe as a platform. He will bring people into the Globe that are linked to his plan and those hires will likely be the things that analysts will look at early on in order to gain some understanding for Henry's plan for the Globe.

 

Henry already owns the Red Sox and he already has people in baseball operations assigned the task of dealing with all aspects of personnel related issues. Just because the money for a posting fee does not count against the LT Tax cap does not mean that it is just funny money. Money spent is money spent and it is always a finite asset. That $60M or whatever it is could be spent any number of ways with any number of other pieces of the Fenway empire vying for those funds. It does appear that posting fees have an impact on the eventual salary negotiated with ballplayers transitioning from Japan to MLB accepting of the role the posting fee plays in providing them the means to make the transition to the best baseball league in the world. I am not convinced that the player is at that point looking so far downstream as to have calculated for his next ML contract. The chances are too great that there won't be a next contract. I hardly think it matters at the point the player has the opportunity to make the transition. At any rate if one of the views being expressed here is that the posting fee is severely discounted by the organization paying it because it does not count against the LT cap, I would disagree with that. It is discounted for sure but it is really no different from any other part of the organization looking for funds. Posting fees are likely a category that has an established limit within the Red Sox organization. BC can likely spend to that limit and will not likely be given more beyond that limit within any given time frame. In other words, the degree to which the posting fee is discounted is already known by the Sox organization. It does not matter if we know it or not. However it is not funny money. It is real money that could have been spent elsewhere if not here and I can absolutely assure you that somebody is watching how it is spent, where it is spent and the result.

Hey Jung ... don't put words in my mouth ... I never said that 60M was funny money. You are correct about the true value of buying an investment and building its value ... when you sell it off you are paying a lower long term capital gains rate. What is great about owning the Sox is that the ownership group are having a lot of fun or you would think that they are. So what are the Sox worth now? Are they worth more after 2013 then 2012? Looking at things this way makes acquiring Tanaka all the more sensible ... protecting a valuable asset ... winning.

Forbes has the Sox valued at 1.3B as of March 2013

http://www.forbes.com/teams/boston-red-sox/

 

Forbes has the Sox valued at 912M in 2011

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/33/baseball-valuations-11_Boston-Red-Sox_330700.html

 

When you look at the numbers it is uncanny how clubs are able to offset expenses and revenue.

 

Hope that this is helpful.

[redsoxfan3]

So Fenway Sports Group is the holding company. My point earlier is that we do not know. It may even take the ownership group time to figure it out. Suppose that FSG is projecting a net profit of 200M for 2013 and a 60M posting fee for Tanaka will adjust this profit to 170M?

Ownership says yeah lets grab Tanaka if we can for the next six years because of the following:

1. We went up against 3 teams in the playoffs with better SP than we have.

2. Lester will be a FA in 2015 and he might cost us a bundle with all monies counting against the luxury cap.

3. We can eat Peavy next season and he will be an awesome # 5.

4. We can package Dempster and his 14M ... take on 4M and pick up a prospect. Nets result 10M savings and a prospect.

5. We can sign Tanaka for 60 /6. Yu Darvish type of contract.

6. We hope that Buchholz will be healthy next season but we cannot count on this.

7. We have some good young arms to join Tanaka in a post Lester era ... Owens, Barns, Doubront, etc.

 

Again I could be off on this but I know a little about finance and investments. If I am wrong I am wrong ... I am only trying to explain that after a posting fee is paid you are actually getting the player you are signing at a discount to his true value. If there was not a posting fee than Tanaka would probably go for 100 / 6. The circumstances are what they are.

 

I am right there with you on finance and investments, I am one semester away from graduating with an accounting degree. jung summed it up pretty good. The main issue here is that it is still 60 million+ dollars that is being spent. In terms of materiality, that is a large material amount of money to be investing just to be able to negotiate a contract for one player. It is hard to really estimate the effect that it has on the net income or net profit without seeing other factors involved on the balance sheet and income statement.

 

We can really get into the acquisition of the Boston Globe and the value of the asset that John Henry was able to capitalize from the goodwill, but that really is irrelevant to the main focus. jung hit it spot on when he was talking about FSG's payday will really be when they sell whatever asset is being held for sale. The idea of adding value or increasing the value of an asset is the main concept. Think about it like buying a house that needs renovated that you are going to sell. You buy the house for $100,000 and put $50,000 in renovations to increase the value of the house. Then say you can sell the house for $200,000. You would yield a $50,000 return on a $150,000 investment. That is not a bad payday. The moral of the story is to add value to an asset to make a profit later on down the road. That is a different strategy that is not related to a posting fee. The problem is that the posting fee has to be allocated somewhere. jung's second paragraph nicely explains about the baseball operations aspect of things.

[redsoxfan3]

Hey Jung ... don't put words in my mouth ... I never said that 60M was funny money. You are correct about the true value of buying an investment and building its value ... when you sell it off you are paying a lower long term capital gains rate. What is great about owning the Sox is that the ownership group are having a lot of fun or you would think that they are. So what are the Sox worth now? Are they worth more after 2013 then 2012? Looking at things this way makes acquiring Tanaka all the more sensible ... protecting a valuable asset ... winning.

Forbes has the Sox valued at 1.3B as of March 2013

http://www.forbes.com/teams/boston-red-sox/

 

Forbes has the Sox valued at 912M in 2011

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/33/baseball-valuations-11_Boston-Red-Sox_330700.html

 

When you look at the numbers it is uncanny how clubs are able to offset expenses and revenue.

 

Hope that this is helpful.

 

I don't think that he was referring to you calling it "funny money." He was just making it a point of emphasis that the 60 million has to be allocated somewhere. It is a little easier for us to spend someone's money on something because it is not coming out of our pocket. He was trying to make the point that BC is working with a limit that FSG is setting forth, therefore, we do not know what that limit is and it is hard to tell if that 60 million is a reasonable amount of money to be spending on a posting fee of a player.

 

You are correct that the owners are probably having a lot of fun after winning the World Series. It is something that they hopefully enjoy doing. Protecting a valuable asset is huge. You are talking about an intangible asset of winning. There is no physical substance related to winning. It is hard to measure that in terms of dollar amount. The 60 million is an amount that they can easily measure in terms of dollars, it all comes down to whether the owners think that Tanaka will be a good investment or not. 1.3 billion is a lot of money. That would be an extremely nice payday. You could be right that Tanaka will help this team win if we do sign him, but it is really hard to measure the impact that he will have in terms of overall value of the Boston Red Sox.

[marklmw]

I am right there with you on finance and investments, I am one semester away from graduating with an accounting degree. jung summed it up pretty good. The main issue here is that it is still 60 million+ dollars that is being spent. In terms of materiality, that is a large material amount of money to be investing just to be able to negotiate a contract for one player. It is hard to really estimate the effect that it has on the net income or net profit without seeing other factors involved on the balance sheet and income statement.

 

We can really get into the acquisition of the Boston Globe and the value of the asset that John Henry was able to capitalize from the goodwill, but that really is irrelevant to the main focus. jung hit it spot on when he was talking about FSG's payday will really be when they sell whatever asset is being held for sale. The idea of adding value or increasing the value of an asset is the main concept. Think about it like buying a house that needs renovated that you are going to sell. You buy the house for $100,000 and put $50,000 in renovations to increase the value of the house. Then say you can sell the house for $200,000. You would yield a $50,000 return on a $150,000 investment. That is not a bad payday. The moral of the story is to add value to an asset to make a profit later on down the road. That is a different strategy that is not related to a posting fee. The problem is that the posting fee has to be allocated somewhere. jung's second paragraph nicely explains about the baseball operations aspect of things.

Yu Darvish signed for less than 10M per. at least 8M per less than he is worth. Japanese players do come with the posting fee but their salaries are less than full market value as a result of buying their freedom. Forbes has the Sox increase in value of 400M between 2011 and 2013. What would the increase be if they did not post 50M for Dice K.?

I wonder how many conversations occur like this on the Yankee's fan site. We can't get Texeria ... too much money, we can't sign ARod or Sabathia ... too much money ... we cannot re-sign Cano ... he want's too much money. Seems like some Sox fans care more about what ownership spends then ownership. I was not on this site when the Sox signed Dice K but I will tell you I was happy they did at the time. 50M posting fee and 50M contract.

[User Name]

That's because Yankee fans, with few exceptions, have unreasonable expectations and think the Yankees have an unlimited pool of money, which 2012 demonstrated is not true. And as such, the Red Sox don't have an infinite pool of money either, and we, as fans, would be well-advised to understand the financial limitations of this team.

 

The posting fee issue is simple: It would be a one-time payment of around 60 million dollars. That is an enormous financial commitment no matter which team is making it. The key issue here is whether said financial investment would be sound, considering the fact that this team does have constraints beyond the LT limitations.

 

As an aside, i just don't understand the fascination with Tanaka. It would be cool to get him, but he's not as good as Darvish.

[redsoxfan3]

Yu Darvish signed for less than 10M per. at least 8M per less than he is worth. Japanese players do come with the posting fee but their salaries are less than full market value as a result of buying their freedom. Forbes has the Sox increase in value of 400M between 2011 and 2013. What would the increase be if they did not post 50M for Dice K.?

I wonder how many conversations occur like this on the Yankee's fan site. We can't get Texeria ... too much money, we can't sign ARod or Sabathia ... too much money ... we cannot re-sign Cano ... he want's too much money. Seems like some Sox fans care more about what ownership spends then ownership. I was not on this site when the Sox signed Dice K but I will tell you I was happy they did at the time. 50M posting fee and 50M contract.

 

The decrease in market value is due partly to discounting the posting fee and to account for uncertainty. We do not know how Tanaka will transition from Japan to the U.S., just like we did not know with Dice-K or Darvish. The uncertainty there is partly the reason why Darvish did not not make more money per year. The other aspect is that a team has to pay a posting fee. It is to be expected that a player with no prior experience in the majors should not earn 20+ million a year. Would a team pay 6 years at 120 million plus a 50 million posting fee? I highly doubt it, but it looks like we might be heading down that road.

 

I cannot tell you what the increase would be if we did not pay a posting fee of 50 million for Dice-K. It is out of my control to predict or estimate something that did not happen. All I know is that with the current rotation that we have, with the decision making of BC, and with the limits set forth by FSG, that is going to be the only way we can make an organizational and team decision to go after Tanaka.

 

Yankees fans are used to overpaying players. We were there at one point and should avoid that at all costs. We lucked out with A-Rod and I am glad we did not sign Tex. This past offseason is going to be a programmed and recurring decision that is going to be a model of how we try to sign players. There are going to be a few exceptions to that along the way, but for the most part, we had the luxury of signing one, two, and three year contracts to put together a championship team. We did not have to sign Josh Hamilton or another 100+ million dollar contract. I am sure we will somewhere down the road and maybe it starts this year with Ellsbury. The main reason I bring this up is to point out that Tanaka is easily going to be a 100+ million dollar investment with a posting fee and contract. I was happy when we signed Dice-K as well. I do not know many people that were not happy. The question is, did we learn from that or are we still going to try to take another chance? It is all within the decision making of ownership and baseball operations. It is out of my control. BC put together a championship team this year. I am not going to stress out about things that are out of my control.

 

If BC and ownership decide to sign Tanaka, then great, I am going to trust they made the right decision. If not, then I am comfortable with the starting pitching as is.

[jung]

In the first place everything about a Internet site is people expressing opinions. That is it. People come on and express the opinion they want to express.

 

I don't think anybody is particularly expressing the view that it matters to them with specificity what the Sox spend or don't spend for a particular player or what fees are paid to engage in a particular process. Some might be expressing the view that on the surface of it, $60M sounds like a lotta' money and quite possibly that money might be poured into an effort that maybe has a more concrete basis in player performance numbers built out of real MLB experience because pitching in Japan is not the same thing as pitching here. So what...that opinion is at least as valid as any other. Beyond that, I do think they are expressing the view that all of the potential expenditures an organization might make are allocated and accounted for by the company execs and accountants responsible and are part of a plan. I cannot tell how much the Sox asset value was effected by a particular move but I will guarantee you that it has been calculated within the Sox organization using real data and estimates and that those numbers mean something to those people. They have a very real view of what particular expenditures have meant and do mean to their organization based on real numbers and accepted accounting methodology.....math.

 

I don't want to speak for others here but I think what tends to happen is that some of us as fans want to suggest that an opportunity arrises and that the Sox should just spend the money...just because they have it! It is there....they should spend it and as long as they have not hit the bottom of the barrel after spending that chuck of money, they should just spend the next chunk of money and that is what I think people are reacting to here....the idea that the Sox will or should just spend it because it is there.

 

The Sox IMO will spend everything up to what they have allocated for particular ventures within the enterprise but there are finite limits for everything as well as calculations for what those ventures can or will yield. It does not matter whether there calculations are based on categories of expenditures or specific expenditures. The numbers exist within that organization and if you as an exec within that organization want to exceed a limit that has been set, you are going to have to justify it and more to the point, your ass is going to be on the line for it. It does not matter if I know those numbers or if you know those numbers. I think the discussion is more about whether the Sox organization has those numbers and will act or not based on them.

 

If an exec within that organization goes back to management and asks for funds beyond the limits that have been set, he is saying that the plan he was vested into producing is flawed. "I need more money". Really....."Well what went wrong?" The answer back better not be "Huh." This is how people are held accountable in a business. I am not saying that I know what is on those balance sheets but the suggestion seems to be that those balance sheets either do not exist or that they should be or will simply be ignored when an opportunity presents itself. To suggest that these numbers do not exist within that organization is to suggest that nobody is being held accountable for anything.

 

Since the Yankees have been used here as an example of what may or not go on at a Yankee board first I will suggest that it does matter what goes on at a Yankees board just as it does not matter to the Sox organization what grey matter exercises we may engage in here. But then lets go on to a real example.

 

The Yankee owners decided to allow Aroid to leap past the organization allowing Aroid an audience without the participation of their GM. The result.....said Yankee owners were convinced to act like fans and completely ignore the same sets of number that I content exist within the Sox organization. Those sets of numbers said to GM Cashman that he should tell Aroid to go pound sand and that is what he told him. Aroid did not like that answer and decided to go over his head. The idiot owners not only gave Aroid the audience, but bought the ********. As a consequence, they have ended up with a contract that is historically bad, monumentally bad on so many levels that they are desperately hoping that charges of PED misconduct and the league itself bail them out of that contract.

 

I can swallow a bad decision that was made within the context of the organization far easier than I can swallow people that should have known better going off willy nilly and ignoring all the work that has gone into doing the job the right way and I think that is the basis for the discussion we have been having here.

[marklmw]

In the end even if the Sox want Tanaka they could easily loose out on him via the posting alone.

[marklmw]

That's because Yankee fans, with few exceptions, have unreasonable expectations and think the Yankees have an unlimited pool of money, which 2012 demonstrated is not true. And as such, the Red Sox don't have an infinite pool of money either, and we, as fans, would be well-advised to understand the financial limitations of this team.

 

The posting fee issue is simple: It would be a one-time payment of around 60 million dollars. That is an enormous financial commitment no matter which team is making it. The key issue here is whether said financial investment would be sound, considering the fact that this team does have constraints beyond the LT limitations.

 

As an aside, i just don't understand the fascination with Tanaka. It would be cool to get him, but he's not as good as Darvish.

My fascination is that I am looking ahead. You cannot say that he will not be as good as Darvish. He may not be as good as Dempster ... remember that he has yet to pitch in MLB. I also heard that he has an incredible splitter ... I am thinking how cool it would be to have a starter who pitches like Koji. I like pitchers who can pitch to contact ... make three outs with 8 pitches. From what I have read Tanaka pitches to contact. Dam UN ... if I can't have Ellsbury can't I upgrade our pitching staff.

[redsoxrules]

Tanaka pitches to contact? That won't fly in the MLB where the hitters are much better here. No thanks