Gamble on Mike Napoli at third?

[Spitball]

I know this will not happen in this day and age, but the 1968 Detroit Tigers beat the St. Louis Cardinals by shifting centerfielder Mickey Stanley to shortstop for the World Series. Regular shortstop Ray Oyler was providing absolutely no offense, and manager Mayo Smith made a bold strategic move and put his centerfielder in the shortstop role. It paid off well, and the Tigers were World Champions in a seven game series.

 

We are talking small sample sizes here, but Middlebrooks and Bogaerts have provided little offense to this point. The third base position will likely see less than four chances defensively per game. The third base batter will likely see at least four at bats per game. Napoli has been very strong defensively at first base. Is there a positive payoff here?

 

Would you support Farrell making the gamble to play Napoli at third for the three games in St. Louis?

Edited October 26, 2013 by Spitball

[InfernoOrangeSS]

My original thought was, "are you ****ing crazy?" However, you make a compelling argument with the 1968 example. I don't think it will happen, though.

[Dojji]

If Napoli had the athleticism to cover third base, he would have been doing it by now.

 

 

The clincher is Napoli's hip issue. Hip problems are bad, bad news at third base. We saw that with Lowell.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Dojji

[Youk Of The Nation]

I don't know enough synonyms for "no" or languages in which to say "no" to adequately convey my disapproval of this idea.

[seabeachfred]

My original thought was, "are you ****ing crazy?" However, you make a compelling argument with the 1968 example. I don't think it will happen, though.

 

No thanks on that. Nap is one of best run producers and has been a key in the playoffs so far this fall. We can't risk him coming up lame because we are going back to Boston and we will need him there. That hip problem could flare up if he makes a wrong move in a strange position. My take is to leave well enough alone.

[Palodios]

We are talking small sample sizes here, but Middlebrooks and Bogaerts have provided little offense to this point.

 

You do realize Xander has a .250/.444/.500/.944 line in the postseason so far, right?

[mvp 78]

You do realize Xander has a .250/.444/.500/.944 line in the postseason so far, right?

 

And he has not once looked out matched.

[Spitball]

I am not a doctor but believe Napoli's hips can survive three games at third base. The position typically gets between three and four chances per game. There is more throwing, but fielding the position requires about the same movements as first base.

 

I don't understand how his hips prevent him from fielding the position yet he can run out a career high 38 doubles. He even managed two triples and a stolen base.

 

I do realize that Bogaerts has an impressive OPS in post season play at this point, but it is over too small of a sample size to be a valid measure. He is also OPSing .000 in the World Series which is with too few at-bats, but he does have 4 strikeouts in his last 6 at-bats.

[Station 13]

This happens only if some reporter approach him after game personally with revealing photos of him.

[User Name]

Spitball, i usually agree with you on your baseball ideas, but the thought of playing Napoli at 3rd is just terrible. You are both undervaluing the seriousness of his condition (we are not doctors, but still) and undervaluing the impact of a subpar glove at 3B, where one miscue could dictate the outcome of a game, specially when (not if) the smaller St. Louis hitters start bunting on him.

[dupree]

I hope XB sits in game 3. He looked over matched in Game 2. He looked at too many strikes and has struck out too many times for me. And has shown little power since being called up. Id go for WMB at 3rd. He can stand there and look at fastballs for stirke 3 like XB too. Plus im tired of hearing that he is 21yrs old every f***ing time he comes up to bat. Hes age aint gonna mean s*** if he dont help us any and we lose the series. Atleast WMB provides power and good defense.

[Orange Juiced]

At this point I actually wouldn't worry so much about Napoli's hip (which, for three games, probably won't be impacted much by playing 3b instead of 1b), but rather whether he can actually play the position. Moreover, I *want* Bogaerts in there - he's looked very good, and even on many of his outs he's hitting the ball hard. I wish Napoli could catch, because this would be a good spot to put him behind the plate to keep his bat in the lineup. But alas, it's not meant to be. It just means that they have a serious weapon to bring in off the bench. There are worse things than that.

 

By the way, here are all the Red Sox offensive outputs in NL parks this season, and the starting pitcher they faced:

 

5/29 at Phi (Kendrick) - 3 runs

5/30 at Phi (Pettibone) - 9 runs

8/19 at SF (Lincecum) - 7 runs

8/20 at SF (Vogelsong) - 2 runs

8/21 at SF (Zito) - 12 runs

8/23 at LAD (Nolasco) - 0 runs

8/24 at LAD (Ryu) - 4 runs

8/25 at LAD (Capuano) - 8 runs

 

That's 8 games in NL parks, and they averaged 5.6 runs. Granted, the quality of pitching they faced wasn't exactly off the charts great, but nonetheless, 5.6 runs isn't bad at all. Figure you take away even a run and a half off that figure due to the quality of pitching they faced, and we're still talking about 4.1 runs a game. So if the Sox can score 4 tonight and tomorrow, I actually like their chances.

[Palodios]

Spitball, i usually agree with you on your baseball ideas, but the thought of playing Napoli at 3rd is just terrible. You are both undervaluing the seriousness of his condition (we are not doctors, but still) and undervaluing the impact of a subpar glove at 3B, where one miscue could dictate the outcome of a game, specially when (not if) the smaller St. Louis hitters start bunting on him.

 

Agreed. It is too soon to forget that Game 2 had a deciding play happen at 3B.

[jung]

XB was not alone in game 2 but he was farther off the page with Wacha than most of the more experienced Sox hitters. All of them should have been sitting more on that change considering how Wacha uses it and considering that it is not a secret how he uses it.

 

Generally speaking if the location is good on the change and it is a good change (thrown with same arm angle as FB with major dif in velo) then even expecting it, it can be a tough pitch to hit. However Wacha left some in horrid locations for the Change both to XB and other Sox batters as well. If the Change is left in a bad location it can be a very easy pitch to hit even if you are looking FB. You have to get the bat on the same plane with it and keep the head of the bat in the hitting zone as long as possible. If it is in a bad location and you are looking for it, it should end up resting in some parking lot across the street from the outfield fences. I do think XB's inexperience at the plate at the ML level showed a bit in game 2. Still, you absolutely have to be careful where you would use WMB and today is not the day IMO.

[Northern Star]

Can we please eliminate the DH or add it to NL parks, whatever, just avoid all this s*** every year.

[User Name]

I hope XB sits in game 3. He looked over matched in Game 2. He looked at too many strikes and has struck out too many times for me. And has shown little power since being called up. Id go for WMB at 3rd. He can stand there and look at fastballs for stirke 3 like XB too. Plus im tired of hearing that he is 21yrs old every f***ing time he comes up to bat. Hes age aint gonna mean s*** if he dont help us any and we lose the series. Atleast WMB provides power and good defense.

 

Very objective analysis. Kudos sir.

[User Name]

At this point I actually wouldn't worry so much about Napoli's hip (which, for three games, probably won't be impacted much by playing 3b instead of 1b), but rather whether he can actually play the position. Moreover, I *want* Bogaerts in there - he's looked very good, and even on many of his outs he's hitting the ball hard. I wish Napoli could catch, because this would be a good spot to put him behind the plate to keep his bat in the lineup. But alas, it's not meant to be. It just means that they have a serious weapon to bring in off the bench. There are worse things than that.

 

By the way, here are all the Red Sox offensive outputs in NL parks this season, and the starting pitcher they faced:

 

5/29 at Phi (Kendrick) - 3 runs

5/30 at Phi (Pettibone) - 9 runs

8/19 at SF (Lincecum) - 7 runs

8/20 at SF (Vogelsong) - 2 runs

8/21 at SF (Zito) - 12 runs

8/23 at LAD (Nolasco) - 0 runs

8/24 at LAD (Ryu) - 4 runs

8/25 at LAD (Capuano) - 8 runs

 

That's 8 games in NL parks, and they averaged 5.6 runs. Granted, the quality of pitching they faced wasn't exactly off the charts great, but nonetheless, 5.6 runs isn't bad at all. Figure you take away even a run and a half off that figure due to the quality of pitching they faced, and we're still talking about 4.1 runs a game. So if the Sox can score 4 tonight and tomorrow, I actually like their chances.

 

But he's struck out too much and the announcers always mention that he's 21, so f*** him. Who cares that he's smacking the ball right on the nose and WMB can't hit breaking pitches and we have a guy who throws a ton of 'em tonight?

[dupree]

Can we please eliminate the DH or add it to NL parks, whatever, just avoid all this s*** every year.

Agreed. I think in the World Series they should have a DH in every game.

[Spitball]

I throw this out as a point to discuss but know it will unlikely to happen. Still, I will never forget the 1968 World Series and Mickey Stanley moving to shortstop. It was a bold move by the Tigers' manager and actually could be said to have won the series. I believe Jim Northrup hit the ball that scored the winning run in game 7 versus Bob Gibson, and Northrup was Stanley's replacement in centerfield. I don't think a manager could withstand the scrutiny in today's highly televised world.

 

That said, I do not think the hip argument is at all valid. Napoli has had absolutely no issues with his hip this season. None. He is taking osteoporosis medication which has halted the bone loss and is promoting healthy bone growth.

 

Also, keep this in mind. Bogaerts has played 8 post season games at third (4 starts) and has 6 total defensive chances. I do recognize the threat of the bunt, but don't think that would be something Napoli could not handle.

[User Name]

What makes you think he could handle bunts, or the position in general? He has not played the position professionally. Also, like the rest of us, you are not a doctor, and don't know how the position switch (3B usually demands more violent movement than 1B, and putting the entire body into throws) would affect his hip issues. Under what premise do you argue that the hip condition is a non-factor in this? Like the rest of us, you have no detailed knowledge of his hip condition or situation. It just seems like a wild idea with little practicality behind it.

[Spitball]

What makes you think he could handle bunts, or the position in general? He has not played the position professionally. Also, like the rest of us, you are not a doctor, and don't know how the position switch (3B usually demands more violent movement than 1B, and putting the entire body into throws) would affect his hip issues. Under what premise do you argue that the hip condition is a non-factor in this? Like the rest of us, you have no detailed knowledge of his hip condition or situation. It just seems like a wild idea with little practicality behind it.

 

Napoli's hip is not a problem at this point. Medication has increased the flow of blood and stopped the bone loss. The guy generates a lot of power with those hips when he swings a bat, and he runs very well with 38 doubles, two triples, and a stolen base. He could not have played as much nor performed so well with that hip condition still bothering him. Heck, Brett Favre had the same condition for most of his career.

 

As for the bunting, he has worked on that aspect as a first baseman. I am pretty sure he can field a bunt and make the throw. Who thought the guy would play Gold Glove quality first base after spending most of his career as a catcher?

[sk7326]

I know this will not happen in this day and age, but the 1968 Detroit Tigers beat the St. Louis Cardinals by shifting centerfielder Mickey Stanley to shortstop for the World Series. Regular shortstop Ray Oyler was providing absolutely no offense, and manager Mayo Smith made a bold strategic move and put his centerfielder in the shortstop role. It paid off well, and the Tigers were World Champions in a seven game series.

 

We are talking small sample sizes here, but Middlebrooks and Bogaerts have provided little offense to this point. The third base position will likely see less than four chances defensively per game. The third base batter will likely see at least four at bats per game. Napoli has been very strong defensively at first base. Is there a positive payoff here?

 

Would you support Farrell making the gamble to play Napoli at third for the three games in St. Louis?

 

It's a different Bogaerts than I've been watching - you sure you are not thinking of Jair?

[User Name]

Napoli's hip is not a problem at this point. Medication has increased the flow of blood and stopped the bone loss. The guy generates a lot of power with those hips when he swings a bat, and he runs very well with 38 doubles, two triples, and a stolen base. He could not have played as much nor performed so well with that hip condition still bothering him. Heck, Brett Favre had the same condition for most of his career.

 

As for the bunting, he has worked on that aspect as a first baseman. I am pretty sure he can field a bunt and make the throw. Who thought the guy would play Gold Glove quality first base after spending most of his career as a catcher?

 

That doesn't mean that one false move couldn't spell the end of his postseason run. Also, hitting =/= fielding. And of course, the main problem: first base is not the same thing as third base defensively. You can scream otherwise until you're blue in the face, but all of these caveats are valid. There's a reason why experiments like these are few and far between, and even less so with a guy whose degenerative hip condition we all know very little about. Your analysis is based on a laundry list of assumptions of which only one needs to be incorrect for it to cost the Sox either his services for the rest of the post-season, or a loss in a WS game. No thanks.

[Spitball]

UN, I recognize you are making valid points. At this point, I am throwing the idea out there merely for discussion purposes. However, if Red Sox third basemen fail to generate any offense against Kelly and Lynn, and they lose games three and four, it would behoove the Red Sox to try Napoli at third against Wainwright to avoid elimination.

 

I do not think trying him at third is a terrible idea. Bogaerts has had 6 chances in 8 post season games. Napoli's defense can probably be hidden. I bet Francona would have played Gonzalez in right had the Sox gone to the World Series in 2011.

[seabeachfred]

What makes you think he could handle bunts, or the position in general? He has not played the position professionally. Also, like the rest of us, you are not a doctor, and don't know how the position switch (3B usually demands more violent movement than 1B, and putting the entire body into throws) would affect his hip issues. Under what premise do you argue that the hip condition is a non-factor in this? Like the rest of us, you have no detailed knowledge of his hip condition or situation. It just seems like a wild idea with little practicality behind it.

 

You know what? If Ellsbury and Victorino can start hitting consistently again in this series and help out Pedroia and Ortiz, we wouldn't have to talk about playing Napoli at third base----which I think is a major dumb mistake waiting to happen. I can only hope that the top of our order get with it in Game Three and Nava shows us why he should be and stay in the lineup. As for Peavy, we need a reversal of his game against the Tigers. Put those together and we can get a win tonight.

[a700hitter]

UN, I recognize you are making valid points. At this point, I am throwing the idea out there merely for discussion purposes. However, if Red Sox third basemen fail to generate any offense against Kelly and Lynn, and they lose games three and four, it would behoove the Red Sox to try Napoli at third against Wainwright to avoid elimination.

 

I do not think trying him at third is a terrible idea. Bogaerts has had 6 chances in 8 post season games. Napoli's defense can probably be hidden. I bet Francona would have played Gonzalez in right had the Sox gone to the World Series in 2011.

In the pre-game interview, Farrell said that Napoli had been taking ground balls at 3rd and that he would not hesitate to use him there if the situation presented itself in one of these games. Edited October 27, 2013 by a700hitter

[User Name]

WMB immediately showing us tonight what not executing defensively in a crucial situation can become. No thanks.

[Northern Star]

WMB immediately showing us tonight what not executing defensively in a crucial situation can become. No thanks.

 

/closed thread

[User Name]

WMB immediately showing us tonight what not executing defensively in a crucial situation can become. No thanks.

 

.....while Bogaerts keeps producing offensively to boot.

[Whatsinaname]

Can Nap pitch?