Retire #34 when the Big Man moves on?

[mvp 78]

Doj, the players don't choose what cap goes on the plaque anymore (Wade Boggs rule). He'll go in as a Red Sox.

 

Also, he was basically run out of town the first time. Why should he have loyalty to a franchise that dumped on him?

[MJantomaso]

"This is our f***ing city..."

 

Retire it.

[NativeBostonian]

"This is our f***ing city..."

Retire it.

There should be a sign that says that over every entrance at Fenway Park.

[Dojji]

Maybe with the "F-ing" deleted. I'm sure fans loved the expletive, I'm just as sure the executives didn't.

[BigPapi]

Absolutely David's number should be retired. He has been one of the best and most feared hitters in the league since 2003, even with the down 2008 and 2009 years. Plus, he was a huge part of both world series. There is not a reason to not retire his number here other than alleged ped charges. Jim Rice has his number retired here, as he should being a hofer, and papi has more impressive hitting stats than him. You can't deny Papi. Edited September 7, 2013 by BigPapi

[mvp 78]

Absolutely David's number should be retired. He has been one the best and most feared hitters in the league since 2003, even with the down 2008 and 2009 years. Plus, he was a huge part of both world series. There is not a reason to not retire his number here other than alleged ped charges.

 

Well, all the numbers retired are in the HOF except for Pesky. No HOF = number not retired, unless they start making more exceptions.

[BigPapi]

Well, all the numbers retired are in the HOF except for Pesky. No HOF = number not retired, unless they start making more exceptions.

 

I can see where your coming from, but I don't agree. The best dh ever should be retired. Period. And if they don't make an exception, fenway has to do something else to honor him big time.

Edited September 7, 2013 by BigPapi

[Behindenemylines]

Don't the Sox have a formula they go by: Ten years, retire a Sox, and in the HOF? Not sure does anyone know?

[mvp 78]

I wouldn't say no to retiring his number, but I still say Pedro, Roger, Boggs and Dewey are more deserving.

[Dojji]

I wouldn't say no to retiring his number, but I still say Pedro, Roger, Boggs and Dewey are more deserving.

 

The only one on that list that I feel is definite is Pedro, and he's in just as soon as Cooperstown votes him in, likely in the first ballot. Roger, Bogs, and Dewey have not finishing their careers in Boston against them (although for Evans that's such a slight technicality I'd be all for overlooking it), and Boggs and Roger have playing for the Yankees against them. And Roger has PED against him.

 

As for Evans... I mean, he was a very good right fielder, and one of the most underrated players of all time, but how many different seasons was he the most valuable player in the league at his position like Big Papi has been several times?

 

Maybe I'm being a bit unfair, because Evans was mostly before my time as a serious baseball fan, but I'm just not seeing the level of transcendance for Evans that I see for Big Papi.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Dojji

[mvp 78]

Fisk didn't retire with the Sox and played almost half of his games in Chicago.

 

That's why Clemens should be retired.

[SimplyMarie]

I don't know. I wouldn't retire his number based on the fact that he has 2000 hits. So..then do you retire based on the fact that he is a team player and a team leader? I don't know. I give him props for being a great DH..but his actions as of late have jaded me somewhat to Ortiz.

Now..do I think the Red Sox will retire his number? Yes, I do. Regardless of what I or any other critics think, Ortiz is a fan favorite. People love him.

[Dojji]

Fisk never played for the Yankees, never won a World Series with the Yankees, and never repeatedly chose New York when he could have chosen Boston.

[User Name]

The whole "he played for the Yankees" thing is overplayed. I think the fact that he's a cheating, lying piece of s*** is more reason to not retire his number than his involvement with the Yankee organization.

[mvp 78]

Fisk never played for the Yankees, never won a World Series with the Yankees, and never repeatedly chose New York when he could have chosen Boston.

 

"Could have chosen Boston." Cite your sources. Can't blame a guy for wanting a paycheck. If the Sox hadn't ridden him on the rails, it wouldn't be an issue.

[Behindenemylines]

Pedro and Papi will both one day see their numbers retired I believe. Pedro is back with the organization and both him and Papi are loved by the Nation.

[Dojji]

"Could have chosen Boston." Cite your sources. Can't blame a guy for wanting a paycheck. If the Sox hadn't ridden him on the rails, it wouldn't be an issue.

 

Thinking mostly about 2007 here. It might have been circumstancial before, but at that point he made a deliberate choice between two strong offers and went to NY.

 

And sure can't blame him for that, but you don't put a guy on that wall for things you can't blame him for.

[a700hitter]

If Clemens gets into the Hall, The Red Sox probably retire his number, but he ain't going to the Hall for a long time if ever.

[jung]

There are so many separate debates that will likely separate a guy like Ortiz from the hall that I do not think that MLHOF and Red Sox Retired Number are the same discussion nor should they be. At the same time, the number of significant AB's from Ortiz at critical moments over the course of his Sox career and particularly post season in the WS runs, especially one of them, combined with his consistently excellent performance in instances where he was at times the only power bat in the Sox lineup suggests to me that Ortiz should have his number retired. I suspect that will happen long before he has a shot at the HOF and might even suggest that one reason he will get up on the wall is that it will be part and parcel of a Sox effort to get him to the HOF.

 

The Sox will want to head off some of the detractors who will knee jerk their way to "how can we consider him for the HOF when the Sox won't even retire his number".

[mvp 78]

"The Sox will want to head off some of the detractors who will knee jerk their way to "how can we consider him for the HOF when the Sox won't even retire his number"."

 

This makes little sense. Was that why it took Rice so long to get in, because the Sox didn't retire #14?

 

No.

[jung]

"The Sox will want to head off some of the detractors who will knee jerk their way to "how can we consider him for the HOF when the Sox won't even retire his number"."

 

This makes little sense. Was that why it took Rice so long to get in, because the Sox didn't retire #14?

 

No.

 

It requires voters not voter for a player to make his way to the HOF. Therefore the more issues you can pile up on one side of the scales or the other, the more or less likely a player makes it. Unfortunately negative issues tend to garner more "group support" than positive issues which tend to be more individual as they impact voters. Add to that, periods of baseball history that present as loaded with candidates for the HOF vs those that are not so defined. IMO, the PED controversy combined with the DH issue are two big issues that will capture and have a hold on a number of the HOF voters and it will make it difficult for Ortiz to get there, certainly to get there quickly.

 

I don't think any of that will be nearly as relevant if at all to an effort to get Ortiz up on Fenway's wall. However not being up on Fenway's wall will add fuel to those arguing that he should not get to the HOF as frivolous as the Wall argument vs Hall argument is in fact. This is a political discussion, not a baseball discussion.

[mvp 78]

I just don't think HOF voters care if a team retires a number or not. Like I said, the reason it took Rice so long to get in wasn't because his number wasn't retired, it was because he was a fringe HOF candidate.

[User Name]

If they retire Ortiz' number it won't be to "help his HOF case". It will be retired because of what he's meant to the franchise. That idea is just silly.

[jung]

I am 100% positive that somebody in the room at the time will say "this will hopefully help David's HOF effort" They won't campaign to put his number up on the wall just to help get him into the HOF, but they will almost all if not all be hoping that it will help and if anything it might likely push the effort to get Ortiz up on Fenway's wall over the edge in his first year of eligibility if there is a thought that he does not belong up there. Frankly I think the chance of David not ending up on the Fenway wall is 0.

[SCM33]

Well, all the numbers retired are in the HOF except for Pesky. No HOF = number not retired, unless they start making more exceptions.

 

Yup, and if they start making exceptions, Dwight Evans number should be retired before Papi.

[SCM33]

If Clemens gets into the Hall, The RedSox probably retire his number, but he ain't going to the Hall for a long time if ever.

 

I just don't see it, and I hope it never happens. Roger Clemens is the pitcher version of Jose Canseco. Maybe if he were to pass away tomorrow, and in 20 years everyone had a case of amnesia he would get his number retired, but he has built himself quite a resume....on the field, and off.

 

A liar, a *******, a cheater, a cheater (his wife). a selfish prick, a money grubbing douche bag (who charges a 5 year old kid 10 dollars for an autograph?). He named his own kids with names that represent his achievements. Roger Clemens was fat, lazy and out of shape when he left in the "twilight" of his career. Doesn't it piss you off that he worked harder than he ever did AFTER he left for Toronto and the money, then proceeded to stick it up the RedSox ass? Remember when he tried to get his friend (Brian Macnamee) to admit to something that never happened to cover his own ass? Remember when he lied to Congress? Remember what he put his "best friend" Andy Pettite through, essentially calling him a liar (misremembered?)?

 

.....it will be a black mark honoring a guy like Roger Clemens. I'd like to think they will never issue #21 ever again because of who the number represents, not of what he accomplished.

[a700hitter]

I just don't see it, and I hope it never happens. Roger Clemens is the pitcher version of Jose Canseco. Maybe if he were to pass away tomorrow, and in 20 years everyone had a case of amnesia he would get his number retired, but he has built himself quite a resume....on the field, and off.

 

A liar, a *******, a cheater, a cheater (his wife). a selfish prick, a money grubbing douche bag (who charges a 5 year old kid 10 dollars for an autograph?). He named his own kids with names that represent his achievements. Roger Clemens was fat, lazy and out of shape when he left in the "twilight" of his career. Doesn't it piss you off that he worked harder than he ever did AFTER he left for Toronto and the money, then proceeded to stick it up the RedSox ass? Remember when he tried to get his friend (Brian Macnamee) to admit to something that never happened to cover his own ass? Remember when he lied to Congress? Remember what he put his "best friend" Andy Pettite through, essentially calling him a liar (misremembered?)?

 

.....it will be a black mark honoring a guy like Roger Clemens. I'd like to think they will never issue #21 ever again because of who the number represents, not of what he accomplished.

It's funny that you mentioned being pissed off about his improved conditioning when he left Boston. I really was furious when I saw how his body had transformed in that offseason. He went from the Pillsbury Doughboy/Michelin Man look-a-like to Hercules. Now, we know how he made that transformation-- the misremembered roids. My recollection is that Canseco was on the '96 Sox-- Clemens last year. Coincidence? I don't think so.

[lospunchados]

Manny had much better numbers and was part of both teams. What about him?

 

actually no Manny didn't have much better numbers than ortiz 2004-2007 Ortiz had a higher average and obp for 2 of the 4 years than manny. Ortiz in that same span had more homeruns 3 of the 4 years (having 2 less one year). Ortiz also didn't ask to be traded off the team or quit on his teammates.

[User Name]

So now that Ortiz has been an integral part of three WS teams, including one of the most dominant WS showings a player has ever managed, are there any changes to anyone's stance on this discussion?

[Spudboy]

I never saw this thread until now.

 

Of course the Sox retire #34. Ortiz is one of the most productive Sox hitters in history and a huge part of Red Sox culture.

 

I do wish that he would learn to keep his moth shut at times. I am sick of hearing him bitch about respect and his contract situation. At least that topic is dead for now.