6/2 @ NY Yankees

[CaliSoxFan04]

Wellls got lucky that was foul

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

....and Salty silences the crowd.

[CaliSoxFan04]

Allright Salty!!!!

[wyo-sox]

A lovely FU from Salty to all the standing cheering fans.

[BornToRun]

I think you are under-estimating those aspects of Cano's game. He has excellent range and hands, and he has the best throwing arm of any second baseman.

 

His metrics are consistently below average. Fangraphs has him at -28.8 UZR for his career.

[User Name]

You just can't throw anything low in the strike zone to Salty or he'll uppercut it hard into the OF or the bleacher seats.

[Standing Room]

I'm biased of course but the only thing Cano has on him is power and it isn't like Pedey's just a singles hitter. Dustin is a better on base guy and his defense and base running abilities destroy Cano.

 

Yeah, I'd agree. Pedroia's better at all of the little things that WAR doesn't take into account. Cano's a career .321 .361 .532 hitter with the bases empty and a .273 .332 .448 with runners in scoring position. WAR doesn't take that into account. Cano has a -5.81 Clutch rating, which takes into account how he performs in close and late games, Pedroia's a +0.81. WAR doesn't take that into account. Pedroia works pitchers an extra pitch an at bat. WAR doesn't take that into account. Pedroia also doesn't have issues hitting same-sided pitchers, like Cano does.

 

The only things Cano does better are hitting for power, he has a stronger throwing arm, and he hits better on the road.

[italstallianion]

You just can't throw anything low in the strike zone to Salty or he'll uppercut it hard into the OF or the bleacher seats.

 

 

Is that the same for either side or just as a lefty? I ask because Salty is better as a lefty, in addition to the fact that most lefties tend to prefer the ball low whereas righties tend to prefer the ball higher.

[BornToRun]

Yeah, I'd agree. Pedroia's better at all of the little things that WAR doesn't take into account. Cano's a career .321 .361 .532 hitter with the bases empty and a .273 .332 .448 with runners in scoring position. WAR doesn't take that into account. Cano has a -5.81 Clutch rating, which takes into account how he performs in close and late games, Pedroia's a +0.81. WAR doesn't take that into account. Pedroia works pitchers an extra pitch an at bat. WAR doesn't take that into account. Pedroia also doesn't have issues hitting same-sided pitchers, like Cano does.

 

The only things Cano does better are hitting for power, he has a stronger throwing arm, and he hits better on the road.

 

Not to mention Pedey does all of this while being the size of a garden gnome.

[a700hitter]

His metrics are consistently below average. Fangraphs has him at -28.8 UZR for his career.

He makes some plays going up the middle that other second basemen just can't make, because his arm is so strong. He can throw the ball across his body while moving toward the middle of the diamond.

[User Name]

Not to mention Pedey does all of this while being the size of a garden gnome.

 

That has its advantages though. His strike zone is the size of a thimble.

[BornToRun]

He makes some plays going up the middle that other second basemen just can't make, because his arm is so strong. He can throw the ball across his body while moving toward the middle of the diamond.

He has a great arm, no arguing that, but the numbers don't lie. It's like Jeter, he may look pretty in the field but he's actually not very good with the glove.

[User Name]

Is that the same for either side or just as a lefty? I ask because Salty is better as a lefty, in addition to the fact that most lefties tend to prefer the ball low whereas righties tend to prefer the ball higher.

 

That's a good question. Don't really have an answer for that.

[BornToRun]

That has its advantages though. His strike zone is the size of a thimble.

 

Fair point.

[jung]

Every once and a while I will look up suddenly and seeing that Youk stance still throws me when I see the uni.

[User Name]

He has a great arm, no arguing that, but the numbers don't lie. It's like Jeter, he may look pretty in the field but he's actually not very good with the glove.

 

Since 2008 though, he's been right around average (with a a very above average year in 2012) so his D really isn't as bad as you're making it out to be. Pedroia is, however, the better defensive player.

[CaliSoxFan04]

Every once and a while I will look up suddenly and seeing that Youk stance still throws me when I see the uni.

 

Its a sad and confusing thing

[BornToRun]

Since 2008 though, he's been right around average (with a a very above average year in 2012) so his D really isn't as bad as you're making it out to be. Pedroia is, however, the better defensive player.

 

Perhaps but like you said, he's not close to Dustin's level. Pedroia is a perennial GG type fielder.

[wyo-sox]

Boy IGGY and Drew make a tight defensive side of the field. Great play there Stephen!

[BornToRun]

Boy IGGY and Drew make a tight defensive side of the field. Great play there Stephen!

 

Iggy's arm is pretty impressive when you consider how small he is.

[jung]

Pedey is a plus defender without question. Cano makes "almost" all the plays he should make. But he leaves you with the impression that he could be a plus defender if he wanted to be. However he isn't and there does not seem to be that much want to either.

[User Name]

Perhaps but like you said, he's not close to Dustin's level. Pedroia is a perennial GG type fielder.

 

I subscribe to the idea that the most important aspect of hitting is not making outs. Pedroia has always had better on-base abilities than Cano. Add to that better D and baserunning, and Pedroia's the better overall ballplayer.

 

If you're looking at it from a strictly offensive standpoint, even while scaled to their actual values (because slg% is always around 20% higher than OBP) Cano's offensive production is better than Pedroia's overall. wRC+ also subscribes to this notion.

 

In conclusion, one could argue that Cano's the better hitter because of the difference in power, but Pedroia is the better player, and has less pronounced platoon issues offensively.

[wyo-sox]

Iggy's arm is pretty impressive when you consider how small he is.

 

He has no problem throwing a bullet from 3rd to 1st.

[jung]

Boy IGGY and Drew make a tight defensive side of the field. Great play there Stephen!

 

I was just thinking about how much Drew made that look like what you expect from a professional SS and how many ways Aviles would have found to have messed that play up.

[BornToRun]

I subscribe to the idea that the most important aspect of hitting is not making outs. Pedroia has always had better on-base abilities than Cano. Add to that better D and baserunning, and Pedroia's the better overall ballplayer.

 

If you're looking at it from a strictly offensive standpoint, even while scaled to their actual values (because slg% is always around 20% higher than OBP) Cano's offensive production is better than Pedroia's overall. wRC+ also subscribes to this notion.

 

In conclusion, one could argue that Cano's the better hitter because of the difference in power, but Pedroia is the better player, and has less pronounced platoon issues offensively.

 

I wish I could make posts like this. I'm just not smart enough.

[Standing Room]

The biggest thing that strikes me about Cano's value is how his production gets progressively worse the more important the situation. His production at home in front of larger crowds get worse, despite the fact that he plays in a very friendly stadium for lefthanders. His production with runners in scoring position get worse. His production in close and late games and the playoffs is downright terrible. He's the better hitter, but he puts up relatively empty statistics.

[BornToRun]

Cheering Yankees fans has to be among the most unpleasant sounds on the planet. Right up there with incoming mortar fire.

[CaliSoxFan04]

Cheering Yankees fans has to be among the most unpleasant sounds on the planet. Right up there with incoming mortar fire.

 

And one of the best feelings in the world is when their silenced.

[BornToRun]

The biggest thing that strikes me about Cano's value is how his production gets progressively worse the more important the situation. His production at home in front of larger crowds get worse, despite the fact that he plays in a very friendly stadium for lefthanders. His production with runners in scoring position get worse. His production in close and late games and the playoffs is downright terrible. He's the better hitter, but he puts up relatively empty statistics.

 

This point brings up another debate. To what extent does clutch exist? A pretty interesting conversation IMO.

[User Name]

The problem is that "clutch" by itself is such an abstract concept. Define "clutch".