Trades before the deadline?

[Standing Room]

I think SR's 33% has more to do with the absolutely s***** OF's that a few major league teams have more than it does Jacob's abilities.

 

Exactly. There's more like a 5% chance that this guy becomes a productive player at the major league level. Either this guy fails to become a decent player, and we lose nothing because he sucks. Or he becomes a decent player and we lose nothing because we would have lost him to the Rule 5 draft anyways. He wasn't worth protecting on the 40-man roster over decent prospects like Bogaerts who will also be Rule 5 eligible this offseason.

[jung]

Just goes to show how few players do wind their way through the process and finally make it to the bigs. Clearly with so many players in an organization, guys have got to progress. They can't stand still. Too many players competing for too few spots and too much history to suggest that standing still is just the precursor to going away.

 

Also suggests that the Red Sox have a stronger organization top to bottom than the White Sox and no time to waste on guys that are not making progress.

[a700hitter]

I wasn't trying to imply anything from your argument. My point was that if the trade doesn't work out, and Thornton blows up and Jacobs becomes an All Star, we can't simply dismiss the logic behind the trade given the lack of present production, OF depth, and rule 5 concerns. A bad trade and an even/good trade that didn't work out aren't the same.

Agreed

[a700hitter]

Sticking on another team's roster may not necessarily be a reflection of his talent, but rather extreme suckitude on the receiving team's end. The Cubs would have spent almost all of 2013 with Ryan Sweeney on their 25 man roster had he not gotten injured. Food for thought.

Not the same. Not even close. He suck, but has proved to be serviceable at the MLB level. Plopping a guy who is not even a top 200 prospect on an MLB roster for an entire year is quite different. Not to mention how sitting on the bench it would negatively impact his development. He was not going to be on a 25 man roster next season.

[a700hitter]

Exactly. There's more like a 5% chance that this guy becomes a productive player at the major league level. Either this guy fails to become a decent player, and we lose nothing because he sucks. Or he becomes a decent player and we lose nothing because we would have lost him to the Rule 5 draft anyways. He wasn't worth protecting on the 40-man roster over decent prospects like Bogaerts who will also be Rule 5 eligible this offseason.

This doesn't hang together logically

[Standing Room]

For the record, our remaining prospects who will be eligible for the Rule 5 draft next year include Bogaerts, Cecchini, Ranaudo, Brentz, Workman, Almanzar and Hazelbaker. Workman's the only one currently on the 40-man roster. I wouldn't be surprised to see us include Brentz, Almanzar or Hazelbaker in a trade as well.

[User Name]

Not the same. Not even close. He suck, but has proved to be serviceable at the MLB level. Plopping a guy who is not even a top 200 prospect on an MLB roster for an entire year is quite different. Not to mention how sitting on the bench it would negatively impact his development. He was not going to be on a 25 man roster next season.

 

This is not true. Teams do this a lot if their roster is bad and they are in rebuilding mode to see if they catch lightning in a bottle.

[a700hitter]

This is not true. Teams do this a lot if their roster is bad and they are in rebuilding mode to see if they catch lightning in a bottle.

Not with a guy from A-ball. It is just not done.

[User Name]

It's less likely, but it has been done, albeit mostly with pitchers.

[Standing Room]

The Marlins took Braulio Lara in the Rule 5 draft (5.71 ERA in Advanced A last year as a 23 year old). That's how the Rule 5 draft works, bad teams select these guys and then just throw s*** at the wall and see what sticks.

[User Name]

^Case in point. Also, Jacobs is currently in AA.

[a700hitter]

^Case in point. Also, Jacobs is currently in AA.

For 8 ABs. You are throwing s*** at the wall with this argument. Jacobs is not close to ready for a 25 man roster spot in 2014.

[italstallianion]

I also feel like Jacobs was in AA as an audition for the White Sox who were interested in him for a while.

 

Honestly I'd be reasonably happy with this trade if I'm either side.

[User Name]

s*** at the wall is exactly what s***** teams do picking these players up in the Rule 5. If a team like the Astros had selected him, the chance that he could have spent all season on their roster as at least a backup is pretty good. There's a precedent for it too, since teams have caught lightning in a bottle with this type of roster crunch victim before. I'm sorry if it doesn't fit your narrative, but them's the breaks.

[a700hitter]

The Marlins took Braulio Lara in the Rule 5 draft (5.71 ERA in Advanced A last year as a 23 year old). That's how the Rule 5 draft works, bad teams select these guys and then just throw s*** at the wall and see what sticks.

And isn't he still in the Tampa system? This is more s*** at the wall. I said that I would have done the trade, so I don't know why you guys are arguing with me. Are you against the trade?

[a700hitter]

I also feel like Jacobs was in AA as an audition for the White Sox who were interested in him for a while.

 

Honestly I'd be reasonably happy with this trade if I'm either side.

And that is the nail on the head. We needed the bullpen arm, and they got a guy with some potential.

[a700hitter]

s*** at the wall is exactly what s***** teams do picking these players up in the Rule 5. If a team like the Astros had selected him, the chance that he could have spent all season on their roster as at least a backup is pretty good. There's a precedent for it too, since teams have caught lightning in a bottle with this type of roster crunch victim before. I'm sorry if it doesn't fit your narrative, but them's the breaks.

There is no narrative. I'll say it once again. I would have made the trade, but we did not give up no value. As Ital said, I'd like this trade if I was on the White Sox side too. What narrative are you arguing with me? I would have made the trade. What's your point? It's not the trade of the century for us.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I would call the Dodgers right now and ask for Joc Pederson for Lester, not this offseason, right now.

[italstallianion]

I would call the Dodgers right now and ask for Joc Pederson for Lester, not this offseason, right now.

 

I don't know enough about Pederson to make that call, but I would love to listen to other teams offers for Lester. I imagine we can get something good via trade. Then again I'd love to hear trade offers for anyone. I ran my fantasy team the same way.

[jacksonianmarch]

I find SR so funny sometimes, lol. I am only saying that the sox didn't give up nothing. I also said I would have made the trade. But the ultimate need to be a complete and total homer consumes SR to his core and his need to fight everyone on every little detail makes him look, well, petty. Regardless, saying Jacobs cannot hit is pretty poor on his part. The kid has a .783OPS and is on pace for a near 20-20 season as a 22 yr old splitting time between High A and AA. Just like with all prospects, there is still a higher than 50% chance that this kid never makes it to the majors and a chance on top of that, that he does and pretty much doesn't make an impact. But he has power, he has speed, and he is young for his level. To say he is nothing is just plain stupid. I also highly doubt he would have been kept by a team claiming him on the Rule V since the kid has to stay in the majors for the entire calendar yr. You don't keep a guy who really isn't a 4th OFer type on your roster for 162 games. Regardless, this trade benefitted both sides, but it does have a chance to bite the sox in the ass eventually, something SR doesn't want to accept.

[mvp 78]

Every trade could bite a team in the ass if a prospect is included. That's not really saying much.

[a700hitter]

Every trade could bite a team in the ass if a prospect is included. That's not really saying much.

Exactly, which is why I find the whole don't sacrifice the future argument excuse silly whenever it is used. Most trades for established players involve prospects. I prefer to use them to get big names that will produce for a few years, not bullpen arms for 2 months. I think it is a higher and better use of those assets to get an established player for a year or two. All of that being said, the Red Sox hadto get a guy for the bullpen and that is what Thornton cost.

 

It would be great if we could land Lee, because Lester is just not getting it done at the top of the rotation. Lee, however, is a pipe dream.

[User Name]

Yeah but attacking the "don't sacrifice the future argument" is right a lot of the times, especially since every established player was once a prospect. I bet there are some trades for "established players" teams would like to have back right now. Ask the Blue Jays. The Dickey trade doesn't look so good now and the prospects they gave up are probably going to make an impact as soon as next year.

[a700hitter]

Yeah but attacking the "don't sacrifice the future argument" is right a lot of the times, especially since every established player was once a prospect. I bet there are some trades for "established players" teams would like to have back right now. Ask the Blue Jays. The Dickey trade doesn't look so good now and the prospects they gave up are probably going to make an impact as soon as next year.

It's the Mets. Anyone they get is likely to be the answer to a trivia question some day. LOL! The don't sacrifice the future argument is bogus when it is used as a blanket excuse for doing nothing. Every team makes trades. most trades involve some prospects if you want to get an established guy in return. You are always trading on the future. The key is to be good at it, and try to keep most of your best prospects for your own team. The problem is that we have not been very good at this for several years.

[User Name]

Sox really haven't had that many really good prospects in the past couple of years. However, their farm is currently stacked and they should pick and choose who they trade.

[a700hitter]

Sox really haven't had that many really good prospects in the past couple of years. However, their farm is currently stacked and they should pick and choose who they trade.

My opinion of Rubby and Webster is not as high as the opinions of others. I don't see either one as a future starter. Webster can't get through an order more than twice. I seem them as bullpen arms. As for potential starters, I am not seeing a lot of talent in our organization. We have position players, but we are not good at evaluating or drafting pitching. We have not been good at evaluating pitching for a while.

[mvp 78]

Sox really haven't had that many really good prospects in the past couple of years. However, their farm is currently stacked and they should pick and choose who they trade.

 

Everything about this. They know more about these guys than any soxprospects disciple.

[User Name]

My opinion of Rubby and Webster is not as high as the opinions of others. I don't see either one as a future starter. Webster can't get through an order more than twice. I seem them as bullpen arms. As for potential starters, I am not seeing a lot of talent in our organization. We have position players, but we are not good at evaluating or drafting pitching. We have not been good at evaluating pitching for a while.

 

You said it right there "opinion". And as a possible closer, Rubby has tremendous value anyway. And for a team that besides those two has Ranaudo, Barnes, Owens, Workman and just drafted Ball and Stankiewicz, that opinion is most likely dead wrong.

[jung]

To the there is no problem in dipping into the stock of prospects when necessary. That should be a long way from building a team by emptying the farm. That was the problem with the way Theo did things. Theo fell in love with the idea of particular players signed with his team....making up his team and he would have sold his mother if it got him there.

[User Name]

People keep saying "Theo fell in love......" when a lot of these players are admittedly guys Lucchino lobbied for.