Trades before the deadline?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Well, hopefully Tazawa is the answer if they go that way.

 

I certainly think need to figure out how Taz and RDLR and any other options respond to the role before we just stand pat, but looking internally first should and then making a decision in July as to what direction we should go in appears to be the best option

[Youk Of The Nation]

Do not take me wrong. I like Tazawa and Koji but they are not closers, they are prone to be HRed in pressure situations and that doesn't help mostly in close games... look what has happened with Bailey lately. I like what they do in their current roles. If you want to experiment with them, fine, I'm not in that wagon. I do not want to see again a Aceves, Bard, etc. 2.0 do you? Bailey sucks. Hanrahan is out. Hence, and again, we do not have a reliable/proved closer... that is a fact.

 

No, it is an opinion. Tazawa and Uehara, and to a lesser extent Miller, have been incredibly reliable relief pitchers and in all likelihood would be able to make the transition from the 8th to the 9th inning without too much effort.

 

Your "fact" is that the Sox have no reliable closer, which cannot be true because you have never seen Tazawa or Uehara as a closer and so cannot judge their reliability. All you can judge is their reliability as relief pitchers in general, which has been above reproach.

 

Your second "fact" is that the Sox have no proven closer, which is patently untrue. They have two. Hanrahan, who is on the DL, and Bailey, who is currently the closer and has proven himself as one for a few seasons now. The fact that he has struggled recently does not make him an unproven closer, it just makes him a proven closer who is struggling.

 

My opinion is that Bailey has hit a rough stretch. He may pull out of it, or he may spiral and be taken out of the closer's spot, designated for assignment, and in a year or two could be selling cars and living in a studio apartment that he shares with Manny Delcarmen and Daniel Bard. If he doesn't find himself again, my opinion is that Tazawa, Uehara, or Miller could take over the closing role without imploding like an egg on the bottom of the ocean.

[BSN07]

Some of us are, but others are convinced that moving him up one inning will cause him to turn into Charlie Sheen from the first twenty minutes of Major League.

 

Nice

[iortiz]

I certainly think need to figure out how Taz and RDLR and any other options respond to the role before we just stand pat, but looking internally first should and then making a decision in July as to what direction we should go in appears to be the best option

 

I would keep Koji and Tazawa in their current roles and look for a closer. Damn, with the right closer this team could increase a lot their possibilities in order to grab at least a WC slot mostly looking how tight the division is and likely will be.

[rjortiz]

I think Miller puts too many people on base to be considered a closer, but he's missing a LOT of bats this year. 14.88 K/9. xFIP of 2.13.

[User Name]

No, it is an opinion. Tazawa and Uehara, and to a lesser extent Miller, have been incredibly reliable relief pitchers and in all likelihood would be able to make the transition from the 8th to the 9th inning without too much effort.

 

Your "fact" is that the Sox have no reliable closer, which cannot be true because you have never seen Tazawa or Uehara as a closer and so cannot judge their reliability. All you can judge is their reliability as relief pitchers in general, which has been above reproach.

 

Your second "fact" is that the Sox have no proven closer, which is patently untrue. They have two. Hanrahan, who is on the DL, and Bailey, who is currently the closer and has proven himself as one for a few seasons now. The fact that he has struggled recently does not make him an unproven closer, it just makes him a proven closer who is struggling.

 

My opinion is that Bailey has hit a rough stretch. He may pull out of it, or he may spiral and be taken out of the closer's spot, designated for assignment, and in a year or two could be selling cars and living in a studio apartment that he shares with Manny Delcarmen and Daniel Bard. If he doesn't find himself again, my opinion is that Tazawa, Uehara, or Miller could take over the closing role without imploding like an egg on the bottom of the ocean.

 

I know we used to not get along very well but......please post more about baseball related topics. Pretty please?

[VA Sox Fan]

I know we used to not get along very well but......please post more about baseball related topics. Pretty please?

 

^ Yes. Thank you. Very Much.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I'm not that knowledgeable about baseball, sad as that is. I have a basic grasp of statistics and the actual playing of the game, but when discussions turn into paragraph-long debates about UZR and BABIP and whatever other acronyms people rely on, I have nothing to contribute.

[User Name]

You can, however, show people the difference between a "fact" and an "opinion". A very important, yet simple distinction that is oh so difficult to grasp for some.

[Youk Of The Nation]

If only I could make that distinction understood to Colin Cowherd. Man do I hate that guy.

[italstallianion]

That's something we can all agree on.

[User Name]

He's no Skip Bayless though.

[Youk Of The Nation]

That's something we can all agree on.

 

Having worked at ESPN, I can tell you with certainty what you all suspect: Yes, off the air and on the ESPN campus, he is an *******.

[VA Sox Fan]

If only I could make that distinction understood to Colin Cowherd. Man do I hate that guy.

 

He's no Skip Bayless though.

 

Cowturd and Baseliss. THE WORST

[italstallianion]

Having worked at ESPN, I can tell you with certainty what you all suspect: Yes, off the air and on the ESPN campus, he is an *******.

 

 

You worked at ESPN? I had an offer from them a few years ago but I turned it down to move up to NH to take a financial planning job.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Technically I was a contractor, not an ESPN employee. I was a security guard, third shift.

 

Anyways, back to the point of this thread, I never did offer my opinion as to whether the Sox should trade anyone before the deadline. My answer is no, because right now I don't see any glaring weaknesses. The bullpen is great, the starters, assuming Buchholz comes back healthy, is winning games, though Lester is struggling (but I don't think replacing Lester would help, so never mind that), the bench has been excellent, especially Mike Carp, and the Sox are in the top three or four in almost every important offensive category. Something might change between now and the deadline, but I honestly can't think of anyone besides Cabrera or Davis or Harvey who would improve this team enough to be worth important prospects.

[iortiz]

No, it is an opinion. Tazawa and Uehara, and to a lesser extent Miller, have been incredibly reliable relief pitchers and in all likelihood would be able to make the transition from the 8th to the 9th inning without too much effort.

 

Your "fact" is that the Sox have no reliable closer, which cannot be true because you have never seen Tazawa or Uehara as a closer and so cannot judge their reliability. All you can judge is their reliability as relief pitchers in general, which has been above reproach.

 

Your second "fact" is that the Sox have no proven closer, which is patently untrue. They have two. Hanrahan, who is on the DL, and Bailey, who is currently the closer and has proven himself as one for a few seasons now. The fact that he has struggled recently does not make him an unproven closer, it just makes him a proven closer who is struggling.

 

My opinion is that Bailey has hit a rough stretch. He may pull out of it, or he may spiral and be taken out of the closer's spot, designated for assignment, and in a year or two could be selling cars and living in a studio apartment that he shares with Manny Delcarmen and Daniel Bard. If he doesn't find himself again, my opinion is that Tazawa, Uehara, or Miller could take over the closing role without imploding like an egg on the bottom of the ocean.

 

Bailey is not reliable. Tazawa, Ushera and Miller are not proven closers.

 

Those are the facts, I'm talking about.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Bailey is not reliable. Tazawa, Ushera and Miller are not proven closers.

 

Those are facts.

 

The second one is a fact, yes. The first one is an opinion. Bailey has had a couple rough outings. That does not translate to "unreliable". He had three excellent seasons in Oakland as a closer and one season in Boston cut short due to injury. If he continues blowing saves for another month, you could call him unreliable, but right now he is just a guy who is struggling. If Pedroia makes an error at second base three games in a row, is he an unreliable second baseman? If Buchholz loses back-to-back games, is he an unreliable starter? If Ortiz goes 0-6 in a game, is he an unreliable DH? No, that's just the ups and downs of baseball. I am as frustrated with the three blown saves as anyone, but acting as if Bailey is guaranteed to blow the save whenever he steps out there is ridiculous. If he keeps doing that, he will likely be removed from the closing spot. If he steadies himself, he won't be removed. Judging him unreliable after less than 15 save opportunities is like calling a girl bad in bed before she finishes taking her clothes off. It's premature, likely to get you yelled at, and no fun at all.

[iortiz]

The second one is a fact, yes. The first one is an opinion. Bailey has had a couple rough outings. That does not translate to "unreliable". He had three excellent seasons in Oakland as a closer and one season in Boston cut short due to injury. If he continues blowing saves for another month, you could call him unreliable, but right now he is just a guy who is struggling. If Pedroia makes an error at second base three games in a row, is he an unreliable second baseman? If Buchholz loses back-to-back games, is he an unreliable starter? If Ortiz goes 0-6 in a game, is he an unreliable DH? No, that's just the ups and downs of baseball. I am as frustrated with the three blown saves as anyone, but acting as if Bailey is guaranteed to blow the save whenever he steps out there is ridiculous. If he keeps doing that, he will likely be removed from the closing spot. If he steadies himself, he won't be removed. Judging him unreliable after less than 15 save opportunities is like calling a girl bad in bed before she finishes taking her clothes off. It's premature, likely to get you yelled at, and no fun at all.

I should say that Bailey is not reliable these days which is a fact.

 

On the other hand I have zero confidence on him, hopefully I'm dead wrong on this.

[Youk Of The Nation]

And by "these days", I assume you mean "yesterday", since his last blown save before that was ten days ago, and the only other one was in April?

[iortiz]

And by "these days", I assume you mean "yesterday", since his last blown save before that was ten days ago, and the only other one was in April?

 

Well, the last 7 days he has a 13.5 ERA, the last 14? 7.5, the last 28? 5.0, the last 365? 4.78. That is not reliable by any means and mostly for a closer, don't you think?

[Youk Of The Nation]

Well, the last 7 days he has a 13.5 ERA, the last 14? 7.5, the last 28? 5.0, the last 365? 4.78. That is not reliable by any means and mostly for a closer, don't you think?

 

In the last 365 days, how many save opportunities has he had? He barely played last year and a good chunk of the last 365 days includes the offseason.

[iortiz]

Point is that for whatever reason (injuries, mechanics, fried chicken & beer, etc) he hasn't been a reliable pitcher beyond his role in the last 2 year. He has earned tons of runs or injured in the last 7/14/28/365/2 Y... You do not need that and mostly in the las inning. That is a fact my friend and reason why I sustain he is not reliable at all right now. Will this continue? hopefully no, but at this point I have zero confidence on him. Zero.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Seriously? Fried chicken and beer? That horse was killed, beaten, atomized, and dispersed throughout the cosmos a couple years ago. Lots of players are injured and come back. It's a little early to assume that he's not going to recover from one injured season. And again, his stats this season are in 11 save opportunities. Let's wait until things have progressed a bit.

[BSN07]

Every time iortiz gets cornered in a discussion he lobs "chicken and beer" into the middle of it in a last ditch effort to win lol

 

He's hell bent against Bailey and not going to let in even when it's been laid out in great detail infront of him that his stance is just not in correct but also silly.

 

I mean seriously he has one more blown save then the great Papelbon of OZ and 2 more then Mo. It's not like he's blowing a couple games a week.

[Palodios]

Bailey wasn't even around in the chicken 'n' beer era...

[a700hitter]

People act like Bailey was a proven closer when we got him. The facts are that he pitched more than 45 innings in a season only once possibly twice. He pitched well when he was available which was not often. He's been living off the memory of 1 good full season. He's been on the DL twice since we got him and he has accomplished very little for us since he was acquired. In limited appearances last season, he stunk. Right now, he is really struggling. To mention him in the same breath as Mo and Papelbon is completely unjustified. He is closer to the chicken and beer category.. It's an untenable position to defend Bailey's record until he puts up some consistent good production. Since we got him, his production has not been good at all. That is a fact.. According to the press and media, there is a lot of discussion in the Sox organization regarding other options (internal or external). This reflects doubt on the part of the organization that Bailey can get the job done. If the organization has its doubts, how can the fans feel confident when he is on the hill. He has done nothing, zilch, nada to instill confidence in us. If we had Papelbon or Mo struggling like Bailey, the FO would not be focusing on the closing situation, because they would know how the numbers would look at the end of the season. Bailey is not in their class-- not even close. He will be lucky if he has a Kevin Gregg type career.

[User Name]

What a bunch of nonsense.

[SoxFanForsyth]

The problem with Bailey isn't mechanics, chicken and beer, his head, or any of that.

 

The problem with Bailey is that he is, and always has been a fly ball pitcher. League Average fly ball rate from 09-13 (since Bailey has been in the league) is 36%. Bailey has a career 46.4% FB rate. That FB rate works in a monster park with huge foul ball territory like Oakland and the AL West (other than Texas). That formula does not work in a place like Boston and the AL East, particularly in Yankee Stadium and Fenway.

 

You can certainly fault the FO for acquiring a pitcher whose peripherals don't exactly line up with what works in Boston and the band boxes of the AL East, that's more than fair. But to say he's not a proven closer when he came to Boston with 75 saves and a career 2.01 ERA is simply not true.

 

What he's going through right now is a statistical blip where his HR/FB is about double league average, and his actually giving up over 60% FB. Regression to the mean is imminent, meaning his FB% will decline drastically and his HR/FB will normalize as well. Whether the Sox want to ride this rocky patch through and wait for the bright side to show up or not is an entirely different question.

 

But lets not take away his credentials of being a proven closer. 2x All Star and ROY. He's not some bum.

[User Name]

^Well said