Poll: Does Lackey deserve a spot in the rotation?

[Palodios]

I love polls. Polls polls polls.

 

Everyone seems to be saying the same thing about the Red Sox-- they spent an absolute ton of money, but didn't fix the biggest problem for this team -- the rotation. It appears that the front office is counting on Lackey to return to his career averages, despite having a historically bad season in 2011.

 

How does everyone think Lackey will perform in 2013?

[jopete19]

This is what Spring Training is for. Hopefully JF will get him in shape and he'll return to his Angel numbers. Hopefully.

[a700hitter]

When a staff is full of "ifs" and you need all of those questions to be answered in a positive way, you will have a bad team. Our "ifs": Buchholz staying healthy and putting up 200+ innings, Lester returning to form, Lackey returning to the pitcher he was for the Angels, and Doubront's late season failures were just fatigue. We need all of these to work out in a positive way in order to be competitive. All of them working out is unlikely. We need another pitcher.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm going with unbridled optimism. Why not. It's January.

[RedSoxNC84]

Hahaha "Trade the f***er."

 

I wonder who voted that way

[a700hitter]

Some fans suffer from Stockholm Syndrome. Not that long ago I predicted that we wouldn't add the 2 new starters that we need and that people would make excuses for the FO and come up with arguments why our pitching was good enough. Most people said that there would be no excuses if the FO didn't address the pitching situation. As hopes for getting pitching help fades, people will start to formulate these arguments that we are good enough and improved and that the FO did the best it could. Preemptively, I say hooey. Signing Ryan Dempster and a couple of bull pen arms does not address the issue. Spare me all the "ifs". If the Queen had balls she would be the King. Lots of "ifs" means that you are going to be a loser. I love baseball and I will always root like crazy for the Red Sox, and I will hope for all the "ifs", but I have opened eyes. They have not done what needs to be done. Unless there is more to come, they have not adequately addressed the team's biggest need. To those who say that 2013 is going to be a bridge year like it or not, I say why spend $170 million on a bridge year payroll.

[mvp 78]

The upside on Lackey is nil. He should compete for a spot. If he doesn't earn a spot, they need to move on from this disaster.

[reYoukilis]

Some fans suffer from Stockholm Syndrome. Not that long ago I predicted that we wouldn't add the 2 new starters that we need and that people would make excuses for the FO and come up with arguments why our pitching was good enough. Most people said that there would be no excuses if the FO didn't address the pitching situation. As hopes for getting pitching help fades, people will start to formulate these arguments that we are good enough and improved and that the FO did the best it could. Preemptively, I say hooey. Signing Ryan Dempster and a couple of bull pen arms does not address the issue. Spare me all the "ifs". If the Queen had balls she would be the King. Lots of "ifs" means that you are going to be a loser. I love baseball and I will always root like crazy for the Red Sox, and I will hope for all the "ifs", but I have opened eyes. They have not done what needs to be done. Unless there is more to come, they have not adequately addressed the team's biggest need. To those who say that 2013 is going to be a bridge year like it or not, I say why spend $170 million on a bridge year payroll.

 

But how do you balance that against not signing long term deals? Great players want long term deals.

 

Also I think its obvious that the FO knows that they have the potential for a trade with our excess of catchers, center fielders (Vic & Els) and relief pitchers and are waiting for the right player and right deal.

[jung]

Nobody is going to give much for Ells or Vic or any combination of Els or Vic and Salty. So I am not at all convinced that the SP situation gets resolved in trade at this point. It probably just does not get done this off season. Ells does not have enough contract left and has his one big year to go on....big deal.

 

The bigger issue for me is one that 700 put in his post. They have spent a ton of money to turn themselves into the Boston Mid-packs.

[Bellhorn04]

The bigger issue for me is one that 700 put in his post. They have spent a ton of money to turn themselves into the Boston Mid-packs.

 

Maybe so. But there is a big difference in spending a ton on 1-2-3 year deals and spending a ton on 4-5-6 year deals. Let's keep it in perspective.

[User Name]

Maybe so. But there is a big difference in spending a ton on 1-2-3 year deals and spending a ton on 4-5-6 year deals. Let's keep it in perspective.

 

Perspective is the correct word. You can't have your cake and eat it too. People want the Red Sox to give themselves a chance to win without sacrificing the future, and this is basically the way to do it.

[a700hitter]

Maybe so. But there is a big difference in spending a ton on 1-2-3 year deals and spending a ton on 4-5-6 year deals. Let's keep it in perspective.

You don't need to spend $170 million if you are in a bridge year.

[jung]

There was not enough depth in this year's FA pool to even make several 4-5-6 year deals possible. So I am not ready to anoint what they have done as genius at this point.

 

I am not convinced that spending all the way up to the LT cap limit to build this kind of a team makes much sense. I suppose they could make the case to the fans that they are willing to spend money. I have to believe that was part of upper management's logic in setting BC off in this particular direction. They have done so much more for show and so little for go in the last couple of years that it sounds just like them to give themselves a ready made argument for why we should spend our dollars to watch this team play. We spend our dollars so you fans should reciprocate and spend yours.

 

But if the team is not going to win enough games and not be particularly interesting to watch...who cares? I just don't think this is likely to work out from either perspective....business or performance.

 

Way back when Napoli was first signed, people were suggesting that we were building a team that nobody is going to care particularly about and I agree. Victorino will likely be worth watching and I like Ross as a catcher. I frankly don't see myself much interested in Gomes or Drew or Napoli especially as a full time 1st baseman. From what I can see Drew was on the downside, before he got injured. What are we hoping for, a Steven Drew of about 5-6 years ago? Even if we got that Drew, a full year of Napoli at 1st and the outfield as planned, where does that leave them with their pitching?

 

Looking at the O's effort last year does not help. This is not the same thing.

 

IMO, they stand a very good chance of not satisfying either their business or their performance objectives with this team.

[User Name]

Are you serious?

 

Hamilton, Greinke, Sanchez, Bourn, Upton, Swisher, and even Napoli and Victorino were guys who either signed, could have signed or will sign 4+ year deals and could have fit into the Sox. That argument holds little merit. They could've gotten themselves into more stupid long-term contracts had they wanted to.

[Palodios]

You don't need to spend $170 million if you are in a bridge year.

 

The simple question here is: If the Red Sox are committed to making the team better, then why not? With all of the contracts they've signed, they're keeping the seats warm for their prospects. Not a single one of their top 10 prospects are blocked from reaching the majors. Keeping the team respectable isn't important just to keep fans in the seats-- it is a big factor in signing free agents, as well as international players.

 

You said it yourself-- the 2012 team played some of the worst baseball that many of us have seen. If they get lucky with pitching in 2013, there is a very good chance they'll go to the playoffs. I would much rather that than be a team like the Marlins who have no shot.

[User Name]

The simple question here is: If the Red Sox are committed to making the team better, then why not? With all of the contracts they've signed, they're keeping the seats warm for their prospects. Not a single one of their top 10 prospects are blocked from reaching the majors. Keeping the team respectable isn't important just to keep fans in the seats-- it is a big factor in signing free agents, as well as international players.

 

You said it yourself-- the 2012 team played some of the worst baseball that many of us have seen. If they get lucky with pitching in 2013, there is a very good chance they'll go to the playoffs. I would much rather that than be a team like the Marlins who have no shot.

 

This.

 

And the funny thing is, that if they hadn't made the moves they did and had kept the payroll low, then the same people who are complaining about the high payroll would be complaining about the owners "pocketing the money".

 

There's just no way to please certain fans.

[jung]

I wouldn't be. I thought the best move they could make as an organization was to not spend to the limit in one off season and said so right from the start.

[Palodios]

I wouldn't be. I thought the best move they could make as an organization was to not spend to the limit in one off season and said so right from the start.

 

Why?

[User Name]

There's absolutely no reason why they shouldn't spend that money to improve the club in the short-term in order to hold the fort until the next prospect wave arrives.

[Bellhorn04]

If they don't spend up to the limit this year, it's not like the unspent money would be of much future benefit. We already know it's highly unlikely they'll be exceeding the 189 million threshold in 2014 or future years, with the new penalties.

[jung]

Because I did not think there was enough depth to this year's FA pool to justify spending to the limit and thought there had to be some player or combination of young players that deserved more of a shot to play in this year where they are going nowhere. It is that simple.

 

While they are not blocking anybody necessarily they are also not taking the best advantage of this season to get some of these guys some ML experience. I simply don't buy that this team has more than a ghost of a chance to make the post season and if that is all you have paid 170 odd million $ for, I would rather take full advantage of every opportunity I had to get more out of my young crop of players. That would have meant fewer of these mid-pack FA that at the end of day won't generate enough wins to do anything.

 

Actually I don't think they will start the season with four catchers. Napoli is in all likelihood not going to catch even if they sign him and I suspect even Lavs ends up back down in Pawtucket.

 

Welcome to another year of watching Salty forget that home plate is his base to cover.

[Bellhorn04]

Because I did not think there was enough depth to this year's FA pool to justify spending to the limit and thought there had to be some player or combination of young players that deserved more of a shot to play in this year where they are going nowhere. It is that simple.

 

While they are not blocking anybody necessarily they are also not taking the best advantage of this season to get some of these guys some ML experience. I simply don't buy that this team has more than a ghost of a chance to make the post season and if that is all you have paid 170 odd million $ for, I would rather take full advantage of every opportunity I had to get more out of my young crop of players. That would have meant fewer of these mid-pack FA that at the end of day won't generate enough wins to do anything.

 

Personally I think there's too much uncertainty in baseball for the Red Sox to 'punt the season' as Jacko would say. Do any of us really know how Lester, Buchholz or Lackey will pitch this year? What if they pitch well but we have a bunch of rookies and scrubs playing because we assumed the team was going nowhere. Talk about a wasted season.

[jung]

Do any of us really know how Lester, Buchholz or Lackey will pitch this year?

 

No but we have seen the very best that Lester and Buch have to offer. So we know exactly what that looks like while being not at all certain that we will get that. Expecting Lackey to just come back and pitch well after TJ is just to much of a gamble when you consider that Lester, Buch, Dempster and Felix already have big question marks painted on their backs.

 

The only thing I am holding out for in Lackey's case is that the AL East hitters continue the same trending toward lack of discipline that became so prominent by the end of last season. If Lackey gets a bunch of help from the hitters he could end up being a surprise. If anything he is likely to be the kind of pitcher that could take advantage.

[Bellhorn04]

No but we have seen the very best that Lester and Buch have to offer. So we know exactly what that looks like while being not at all certain that we will get that.

 

I'm not expecting them to match their best, but their best was pretty good and for both it was 2010. Lester was 4th in the Cy Young and Buch was 6th.

[jung]

And even if we got that from Lester and Buch as unlikely as that is, there is not enough team there to support them. I have said it several times already and while it is just my opinion, I guess I should try to say it a different way or something.

 

They don't have enough hitting to make up for their lack of pitching under any circumstance you can reasonably expect and/or they don't have enough pitching to hold down the better teams enough such that they can hang with them as far as offense is concerned.

 

Unfortunately, we have gone backwards while many of the league's teams have improved either marginally or enough so that we will have more decent teams this year and fewer dogs. It was already headed that way last year when we did not make hay against really any level of the AL. Even the Rays may not have stepped as far back as we have. If I had to be totally honest, I cannot even say we will finish above the O's.

 

We were posting some expectations for AL East standings by year end a few weeks ago and I stuck the Sox at fighting for 3rd and possibly finding 4th because I just did not have the heart to stick them were they may well end up, battling for 4th and finding 5th.

 

IMO, if you want to go back and focus on Lester and Buch the range of finish for the Sox is anywhere from 3rd to 5th depending on what you get out of those two with the Sox missing the post season either way.

[Bellhorn04]

Well jung, one area I think I'm in agreement with you on is that I don't have a good feeling about the catching situation. I think D. Ross was a good pickup, but I'll be sick if Salty is the opening day starter. Unfortunately Lavarnway didn't show enough to inspire great confidence. But Salty scares the crap out of me. He's got losses written all over him. I was hoping he'd be traded.

[jung]

Me too Bell and those are exactly the sort of choices I probably would have made going the other way. Not all of them but some of them. Like I said early I reluctantly had to admit that Victorino is necessary to protect on Ells.

 

However I don't think there is a snowballs chance in hell of the Sox being so bold (bold for them) as just bitting the bullet, trading Salty and bringing Lavs up, regardless of his less than inspirational performance last year. So many teams would play this the other way.

 

I think the lesson to be learned on Riddick is that if you don't finally bite the bullet and tell a young guy that the position is his to lose so that he is not feeling like some God forsaken appendage you are likely very lucky if you really find out what the kid has got. I don't buy that the dif between Boston and Oakland on Riddick was the dif in pressure generated by the two cities and their support of their respective baseball teams. For my money Riddick improved out there because he was given the job and did not have to look over his shoulder every five seconds to see if he still had it....which is typical of how Boston treats its young players.

 

If there was ever a year to just give some of them the job and let them play it out, this is it. For one thing I was hoping the Sox would do just so they would get used to doing it.

[Palodios]

Because I did not think there was enough depth to this year's FA pool to justify spending to the limit and thought there had to be some player or combination of young players that deserved more of a shot to play in this year where they are going nowhere. It is that simple.

 

We saw what this organization's young players looked like last year. Was there anyone out there that really sparked your interest? Most of the guys we saw simply weren't ready.

 

If someone starts lighting up the minor leagues, do you really think they'll be blocked by one of the recent signings?

 

Napoli? There isn't a single high ceiling first baseman in the farm system. Worst case scenario, they use the flexibility Napoli provides and push Salty to the bench so Napoli can catch.

 

Victorino? If Brentz comes knocking, you trade Ellsbury and move Shane to center. If Bradley emerges too, then you have a good problem to have.

 

Dempster? The rotation is still shaky-- any starting pitching prospects will have plenty of opportunities.

 

Hanrahan? Worst case scenario, an elite closer prospect will demote him to setup.

 

Drew? Bogaertz was born in 1992, let him marinate a bit:lol:

[mvp 78]

What young players were showcased last year? Lavs showed he could catch. Iggy showed he still can't hit. Pedro (not a prospect) showed he could sub when needed. Tazawa pitched great. Gomez (not a prospect) showed he's a marginal talent.

 

It's not like Brentz, JBJ and Xander were getting reps.

[User Name]

We saw what this organization's young players looked like last year. Was there anyone out there that really sparked your interest? Most of the guys we saw simply weren't ready.

 

If someone starts lighting up the minor leagues, do you really think they'll be blocked by one of the recent signings?

 

Napoli? There isn't a single high ceiling first baseman in the farm system. Worst case scenario, they use the flexibility Napoli provides and push Salty to the bench so Napoli can catch.

 

Victorino? If Brentz comes knocking, you trade Ellsbury and move Shane to center. If Bradley emerges too, then you have a good problem to have.

 

Dempster? The rotation is still shaky-- any starting pitching prospects will have plenty of opportunities.

 

Hanrahan? Worst case scenario, an elite closer prospect will demote him to setup.

 

Drew? Bogaertz was born in 1992, let him marinate a bit:lol:

 

This. I said exactly this in another post but it seems to be getting largely ignored. It's obvious from watching the way they're setting up the team that they feel the current crop of MiLB talent is close, but not ready. They have set the team up to have young talent methodically replace veteran talent, most of which is signed to shorter-term contracts now.