Rotation

[iortiz]

... and also Bard, they f***ed him up too.

[jung]

Aren't we ignoring how Aceves was approaching this whole season? He either wanted to start or close. He had no interest what-so-ever in his customary role, figuring it was his time to reach for the brass ring and move up to the higher profile, higher paycheck pitching opportunities. I have got to believe that if he was not made either a closer or a starter at the start of the season, we would have seen his antics far earlier last season. The guy has proven to be a certifiable nut bag. The fact that the Sox are willing to give Farrell a shot at somehow keeping this guy on the mound, not committing some act of felonious assault on his pitching coach says a good deal about how desperate the Sox are to keep guys that might be able to get the ball up to the plate. Last year the Sox came very close to the embarrassment of watching their pitcher chase their pitching coach off the field for coming out to have a word.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Red Sox fail to add Michael Olmstead to the 40 man roster and lose him to FA.

 

All he did was post a 14.0 K/9 and a 2.3 BB/9 this year with a 1.52 ERA between Salem and Portland (59.1 IP), throwing 97 mph as the closer.

 

In AA, he threw 20 IP over 14 appearances and didn't allow a single earned run.

 

He's 25, which is old, but it's because he was throwing 89-92 the past few years until he hooked up with the Red Sox in 2011. Since then, he posted a 1.39 ERA in 2011, and a 1.52 last year.

 

But no, we don't need him on the 40 man roster. Not with studs like Sandy Rosario, Ivan DeJesus, Danny Valencia, and Daniel Nava.

 

Nah. We'll just go find a 6'7, 250 lb flamethrower somewhere else.

 

Front office mistake #2 of this offseason.

[jung]

Regardless of the numbers he posted is Olmstead still throwing 89-92 or not? To me that would be the question that seemed left unanswered in your post above SFF. I admit, I did not make an effort since looking at your post to check myself but thought you might know.

[redsoxrules]

... and also Bard, they f***ed him up too.

 

Bard f***ed himself up

[SoxFanForsyth]

Regardless of the numbers he posted is Olmstead still throwing 89-92 or not? To me that would be the question that seemed left unanswered in your post above SFF. I admit, I did not make an effort since looking at your post to check myself but thought you might know.

 

Pumping 97 now. Sitting 97.

[redsoxfan3]

Red Sox fail to add Michael Olmstead to the 40 man roster and lose him to FA.

 

All he did was post a 14.0 K/9 and a 2.3 BB/9 this year with a 1.52 ERA between Salem and Portland (59.1 IP), throwing 97 mph as the closer.

 

In AA, he threw 20 IP over 14 appearances and didn't allow a single earned run.

 

He's 25, which is old, but it's because he was throwing 89-92 the past few years until he hooked up with the Red Sox in 2011. Since then, he posted a 1.39 ERA in 2011, and a 1.52 last year.

 

But no, we don't need him on the 40 man roster. Not with studs like Sandy Rosario, Ivan DeJesus, Danny Valencia, and Daniel Nava.

 

Nah. We'll just go find a 6'7, 250 lb flamethrower somewhere else.

 

Front office mistake #2 of this offseason.

 

Agreed. Even if he is 25, he still had a little upside. Anytime you get someone that throws 97 and can post an ERA in the 1's for back to back years, that is impressive, even if it was in the minors. If he can consistently reach 97 and could move through our farm, he could have easily been a nice addition to the bullpen by the time he was 27 or 28 (assuming he does not have a drop off in velocity). The FO dropped the ball on this one. It sure would have been a shame if we DFA'd Valencia. I mean with Middlebrooks at 3B, Valencia would have been a sure lock to get a lot of playing time for as long as he was with the Red Sox in AAA. /sarcasm

[rjortiz]

I'm not sweating the loss of a 25 year old reliever in AA ball.

[rjortiz]

Why you thinkin' Tampa? I have always thought of that as a pretty sleepy community over there.

 

More than most, but it's a major upgrade over that warehouse in St. Petersburg.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I'm not sweating the loss of a 25 year old reliever in AA ball.

 

Just because he was 25 doesn't mean he couldn't be a contributor to the Sox pen this year. Especially since he gained 5 mph of velocity since being signed with the Sox and is 6'7, which means he's basically on top of the hitters when he's pitching.

 

He has posted a K/9 of over 13.5 and a BB/9 of under 2.8.

 

His whip since being with the Sox has been sub 0.90.

 

To say you're not sweating it just because he's 25 is purely ignorant.

[rjortiz]

Just because he was 25 doesn't mean he couldn't be a contributor to the Sox pen this year. Especially since he gained 5 mph of velocity since being signed with the Sox and is 6'7, which means he's basically on top of the hitters when he's pitching.

 

He has posted a K/9 of over 13.5 and a BB/9 of under 2.8.

 

His whip since being with the Sox has been sub 0.90.

 

To say you're not sweating it just because he's 25 is purely ignorant.

 

I used the words reliever, AA ball, and 25.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I used the words reliever, AA ball, and 25.

 

Yes. And how did the Orioles do so well this year? Could it have been because of an incredible bullpen??

 

You need to read rather than just assuming you know everything.

 

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120830&content_id=37602820&vkey=perspectives&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

 

Two scouts went to see the Portland Sea Dogs in the last couple of weeks, and the guy they wanted to talk about was a 25-year-old right-handed closer named Michael Olmsted.

 

"I look at the roster and see a 25-year-old guy who's in his sixth year of pro ball, and he's only in Double-A," said one scout. "So I thought, 'OK, organizational guy ... but 6-foot-7, 245 pounds ...

 

"Then he comes in throwing 97 [mph] with a big-time slider, pounding the strike zone, and I asked someone else, 'This guy's a big leaguer; what's the story here?'"

 

Or, do you just know more than scouts do?

 

And as for your "Oh he's 25 and in AA", here's this (in the same article)

 

This is what general manager Ben Cherington, Baird, assistant GM Mike Hazen and the Red Sox would like to be -- big market/small market.

 

"When I scouted Mike, I thought he'd be 90-92 [mph], a worthwhile gamble," said Baird. "Little did I think he'd been throwing 97 a couple of years later."

 

"I touched 95 in the low Minors," says Olmsted, "but never regularly 97 like right now. It is amazing that the Red Sox gave me the chance. It's amazing, the work their pitching coaches have done with me."

 

He wasn't pumping 97 until he got to the Red Sox. That's likely what slowed his progression. Picking up 5-8 mph in velocity is kind of a big deal.

 

I don't care if you disagree with me. I do care if you just make posts out of ignorance and don't do any research on a topic. I'd rather you have no opinion than an ignorant opinion.

[rjortiz]

Yes. And how did the Orioles do so well this year? Could it have been because of an incredible bullpen??

 

You need to read rather than just assuming you know everything.

 

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120830&content_id=37602820&vkey=perspectives&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

 

 

 

Or, do you just know more than scouts do?

 

I don't claim to know more than the scouts do. I just don't see losing a reliever as a major loss.

[jung]

They must have really gotten Olmsted throwing downhill with that big body. His motion must be unrecognizable from what it was. You don't just gain that sort of velo without making some major changes.

[rjortiz]

 

I don't care if you disagree with me. I do care if you just make posts out of ignorance and don't do any research on a topic. I'd rather you have no opinion than an ignorant opinion.

 

I did research, I saw that he's dominating a league where he is 3-4 years older than everyone else, and that he's a relief pitcher. What more do I need to know to say that he isn't a major loss?

[jung]

The problem I see in all of this is that unless Uncle Bud does something like what had been done several years ago and finds some way to pump offense then pitching will likely get back to as dominant as it was in the 1960's. The problem is he would have to do it without making sweeping changes that are as obvious to baseball as the rules governing what Defensive Backs and Receivers and QB's can do in football.

 

In that context, as I said earlier, I would want my FO to be the most adept organization in baseball with regard to evaluating, retaining and bargaining for pitching. While I believe pitching is once again headed for the kind of dominance it had in the 1960's it is not developing as it did in the 60's. In the 60's it was all about starting pitching. While starting pitchers is on the rise again, relief pitchers are becoming much more specialized as starting pitching is getting better. A relief pitcher that can hit 97 may well be an important asset where we are going.

 

Once we have a baseball organization, if we ever have a baseball organization that is truly adept at evaluating pitching then I will feel much more comfortable about a guy throwing 97 headed for some other club.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Lincecum out of the mix.

 

Forget about the Red Sox trading for Tim Lincecum . Asked whether the San Francisco Giants would consider dealing their down-on-his-luck ace, general manager Brian Sabean didn’t equivocate. “I don’t see how we could cover the loss of him at this point,” Sabean said. “What he did in the postseason, even though it was as a reliever, it’s going to bode well for him and the organization next year. He’s going to be in our rotation next year.” Lincecum notched a career-worst 5.18 ERA, wound up in the bullpen during the playoffs and is eligible for free agency after next season. But the World Series champs nevertheless have determined that he’s still too important to a deep rotation that includes Matt Cain, Madison Bumgarner, Ryan Vogelsong and Barry Zito.

[rjortiz]

Good.

[Orange Juiced]

From rotoworld.com: "ESPN's Jerry Crasnick reports that the Diamonbacks will listen to offers on pitching prospect Trevor Bauer.

Bauer sort of marches to the beat of his own drum, which has rubbed some in the Arizona front office the wrong way. But he's only 21 years old and was dominant in the Snakes' minor league system this summer. The D'Backs need to get something good in return if they trade him."

 

This kid is tremendous. I'd back up the Brinks truck to get him if I was Cherington.

[BSN07]

Ya we were talking about him in the offseason thread, if he's available then the Sox should really be looking in on him. Possible 21 year old power future ace's don't become available often. No he is no guarantee, but this is the type of prospect I would like to see a chance taken on. The beat of his own drum doesn't scare me all that much, especially being a pitcher. He has a long toss routine he does to warm up that the AZ FO hates, but like I said in the other thread I watched Buchholz play long toss 10 minutes before his start this year. I don't think it'll be a problem.

[Orange Juiced]

Sox appear to be in on Anibal Sanchez. Might take 4 years, $50-60 million. Here are his stats the past few years:

 

2010: 32 g, 195.0 ip, 13-12, 3.55 era, 117 era+, 1.34 whip, 7.2 k/9

2011: 32 g, 196.1 ip, 8-9, 3.67 era, 106 era+, 1.28 whip, 9.3 k/9

2012: 31 g, 195.2 ip, 9-13, 3.86 era, 105 era+, 1.27 whip, 7.7 k/9

 

So it appears that what you're getting with Sanchez is a guy who gives you 195 innings, about a 3.70 era, a 1.30 whip, and about 8 strikeouts per 9 innings. His b-ref WAR the past 3 seasons: 2.9, 3.5, 2.6. At about $5.5 million per WAR, it means he's been worth about $15.9 m, $19.3 m, and $14.3 m.

 

So 4 years, $60 million for his age 29, 30, 31, and 32 seasons is probably about right.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I am beginning to like the idea of Sanchez. I hope they lock him up to a deal.

 

They are also in on Masterson and Choo. I'm 110% all for this.

 

I know a lot of people aren't big on Masterson but I think he can easily turn back into the 2011 Masterson with a little work with Farrell and Nieves on his delivery.

 

Lester Buchholz Sanchez Masterson Lackey would be a post season rotation I think.

 

No true ace in there but 5 guys who can certainly give you an era between 3.3 and 4.2, which will win a lot of games.

[kapsis21]

i said it before, Sanchez is the guy we want in that rotation.

[BSN07]

I like Masterson. I don't like Choo. He's a good player, but he's got one year left and is a Scott Boras client. So he's a one year rental because Boras is gonna want 7/120-140M for him or some craziness.

 

edit: I'm ok with 4/60M for Sanchez.

[Orange Juiced]

I like Masterson. I don't like Choo. He's a good player, but he's got one year left and is a Scott Boras client. So he's a one year rental because Boras is gonna want 7/120-140M for him or some craziness.

 

But that knowledge may keep Cleveland's asking price down somewhat. I like Choo as a one-year player, giving guys like Jacobs, Bradley Jr., and Brentz more time to develop.

[wyo-sox]

I seem to keep seeing Lackeys name thrown around like he might add something to the rotation. While I would love him to he productive I have absolutely no hope that he will be. The guy is not only bad, he is about one of the worst if not the worst pitchers in the league.

 

Having hope in him is equivalent to the folks on here who were sure Dice K would help out the team last year when he came back. Past few years simply show Lackey continually declining to the point of being terrible.

[Palodios]

I seem to keep seeing Lackeys name thrown around like he might add something to the rotation. While I would love him to he productive I have absolutely no hope that he will be. The guy is not only bad, he is about one of the worst if not the worst pitchers in the league.

 

Having hope in him is equivalent to the folks on here who were sure Dice K would help out the team last year when he came back. Past few years simply show Lackey continually declining to the point of being terrible.

 

The idea is that his decline was because he had a bad elbow. Considering that the Red Sox knew about his bad elbow years ago makes it clear why he fell off the cliff. After Tommy John, there's a decent chance he'll be back to 2010 form.

[Station 13]

Sanchez is asking 90m

[wyo-sox]

The idea is that his decline was because he had a bad elbow. Considering that the Red Sox knew about his bad elbow years ago makes it clear why he fell off the cliff. After Tommy John, there's a decent chance he'll be back to 2010 form.

 

Well there is a chance, but it does not seem decent. His era has increased for 5 years in a row, that is not falling off a cliff- that is steadily going down hill. Surgery sure did not help Dice K. Hope I am wrong but I would bet he sucks next season.

[Palodios]

Well there is a chance, but it does not seem decent. His era has increased for 5 years in a row, that is not falling off a cliff- that is steadily going down hill. Surgery sure did not help Dice K. Hope I am wrong but I would bet he sucks next season.

 

Five years? You're definitely looking for a trend where there isn't one. Pitching to career averages is not the same thing is declining.