Valentine's job

[a700hitter]

How is that? You can't get rid of the principal owner can you?

Just because you can't get rid of him doesn't mean that he isn't the problem. Ask Met fans how they feel about the Wilpons.

[VA Sox Fan]

Just because you can't get rid of him doesn't mean that he isn't the problem. Ask Met fans how they feel about the Wilpons.

 

I'm not saying Henry is not a problem. My impression is that Lucchino is the bigger problem.

[Brennan]

I don't think that with 20 something games left and the mutiny getting worse by the day that Valentine is going anywhere. They just have to grind it out now. No one wants to look any worse than they already do right now except everyone on the field (except Pedroia)

 

 

 

I would still like to hear somebody in the FO just own up to this mess instead of dancing around the subject as though we were all idiots.

[Elktonnick]

How is that? You can't get rid of the principal owner can you?

 

I could be wrong but LL has an ownership share albeit a small one. The point is that it don't matter who in the FO you fire so long as Henry still owns the team. IMO he IS the problem.

[a700hitter]

I'm not saying Henry is not a problem. My impression is that Lucchino is the bigger problem.

We are just guessing and basing our opinions on personal like and dislike. The problems are all throughout the organization. It is up to the guys at the top to fix it. If the problem is at the top, we will suck for a while longer.

[Scottish Red Sox Fan]

Last year when I watched Bobby V on the TV as an analyst I did not get a good vibe off him at all. Some people in life you just warm to and some people you don't. I can't warm to Bobby V. He comes across to me as smarmy and arrogant so I was pretty horrified when I saw the Red Sox appoint him as manager. He just doesn't strike me as a guy who would be a good leader of men. I could be completely wrong but that's my own personal impression of him. I have to be honest and say that I hope he gets fired at the end of the season.

 

I'm not sure that he will get fired though. I think the ownership might be keen to give him another chance to get it right next year.

 

I miss Tito.

[jung]

I believe they will let V finish the year but trust me...there is no way in hell that they will try to bring him back here. He has been part of the franchise turning into the laughing stock of baseball. While I always thought LL wanted this circus. Even he would have thought V could have kept it down to three rings. It has been a three dimensional circus, never mind a three ring circus.

 

No V will not return. In fact, they might actually allow BC to just hire the guy he wants to hire or they will bring in somebody over BC and allow that guy to hire the guy he wants to hire.

[Elktonnick]

I believe they will let V finish the year but trust me...there is no way in hell that they will try to bring him back here. He has been part of the franchise turning into the laughing stock of baseball. While I always thought LL wanted this circus. Even he would have thought V could have kept it down to three rings. It has been a three dimensional circus, never mind a three ring circus.

 

No V will not return. In fact, they might actually allow BC to just hire the guy he wants to hire or they will bring in somebody over BC and allow that guy to hire the guy he wants to hire.

 

I agree that LL probably wanted BV to be his change agent. I also hope that they fire Cherrington or bring some one over him to run baseball ops. Cherries track record on picking pitchers isn't very good. Any one who was party to the Bard fiasco is suspect in my book.

[Behindenemylines]

Where I once thought BV would be back next year to get a real shot, now with the total collapse his days in Boston are numbered. It will be one of the first acts for the FO with the rebuild. I just hope that they don't give away to much in trying to get Farrell from the Jays. He too has a losing record in two seasons of managing the Jays.

[Bellhorn04]

Where I once thought BV would be back next year to get a real shot, now with the total collapse his days in Boston are numbered. It will be one of the first acts for the FO with the rebuild. I just hope that they don't give away to much in trying to get Farrell from the Jays. He too has a losing record in two seasons of managing the Jays.

 

Yes he does, but it's hard to judge how much of it is Farrell's fault. The Jays don't have great depth and they lost Bautista for the year, plus Lawrie and Arencibia for long stretches. Romero is having a terrible season.

 

All the top managers have had losing seasons.

 

On the other hand Farrell has never actually shown success as a manager.

 

It looks like whoever we choose will be an unproven quantity.

 

At least Farrell is well acquainted with the madness of Boston.

[ibot2much]

The RS need a fresh view with a new eye.. Cherrington was not a good choice since he was too close to the old action and JF will not offer anything new either.

 

New people top to bottom. Knowing how we do things in Boston is not important

[Brennan]

JHC folks give it up with the John Farrell worship. A boatload of fans couldn't wait to see him go for God's sake. Let him sink the Jays.

[example1]

I don't know who is at fault for this terrible season, but I think it stretches from top to bottom in the franchise. Nobody is without blame--from the players to the manager to the ownership.

 

If Valentine doesn't go then I will immediately lose all respect (which is waning anyway) for ownership broadly.

 

I suspect many will be upset with the Sox if they don't go acquire a bunch of players with all the money they have saved. I'm mixed on this, as I don't see much point in spending bad money on mediocre players.

 

Valentine hasn't had any impact in stemming the free-fall. In fact, this team is suddenly so bad that I'm tempted to think thy are TRYING to lose games. Again, I wouldn't blame them due to the draft pick issue. In other threads, we discussed that the majority of the best pitchers in baseball are top draft picks and that a top draft pick can provide a team with a foundational franchise player. Hopefully that's something the Sox get out of this dismal, dismal season.

[Elktonnick]

The sox need a new approach. This means a manager from outside the organization. I'd like them to consider a first time ML manager but with a proven track record. My choice is Ryan Sandberg.

[Bellhorn04]

Sandberg might be a good pick.

[Elktonnick]

Sandberg might be a good pick.

 

He was minor league manager of the year last year. The problem he has getting a big league job is supposedly he doesn't interview well, according to Baseball America.

[ibot2much]

If he doesn't interview well, then hopefully he will at least learn from Dale Sveum's error during his luncheon with John Henry. Supposedly, he spit his tobacco juice into a cup.

 

Apparently, JH was tired of chewing ( he got TF to stop chewing and spitting) and didn't want another manager with that habit , especially one who did it at lunch. You really have to be a yahoo to have done that during an interview.

 

I guess Cherrington and Theo didn't mind it as much as JH

[Elktonnick]

If he doesn't interview well, then hopefully he will at least learn from Dale Sveum's error during his luncheon with John Henry. Supposedly, he spit his tobacco juice into a cup.

 

Apparently, JH was tired of chewing ( he got TF to stop chewing and spitting) and didn't want another manager with that habit , especially one who did it at lunch. You really have to be a yahoo to have done that during an interview.

 

I guess Cherrington and Theo didn't mind it as much as JH

 

I can't imagine anyone who would either chew tobacco or dip during a job interview and expect to be hired.

[jacksonianmarch]

Obviously, he was the wrong pick, and instead of rallying the kids he has, he has thrown in the towel. I dont think I have ever seen a manager more deserving of being shitcanned

[Behindenemylines]

I was watching the end of the O's and $pankee game Sat. night and how Joe G. did not come out to argue the game ending play was a little curious. What happens to him if the $panks don't make the playoffs? I know in the good old days he would have been fired by now. How dare he lose a ten game lead. If I was a $pankee fan I would not be worried about who is managing the Sox, but who is doing a terrible managing job in the Bronx. Maybe he should be _hitcanned!

[jacksonianmarch]

He should be. I have been advocating this for awhile, and if we do miss the POs, he will and should be fired.

[Elktonnick]

He should be. I have been advocating this for awhile, and if we do miss the POs, he will and should be fired.

 

One Boston sports personality joked that Giardi could be managing the Red Sox and Francona the Yankees next year. LIke I said he was joking!

[jacksonianmarch]

If you guys got Girardi, you'd be in last place for the next 3 seasons. It took nearly 120 games for him to start playing any sort of small ball with this pathetic lineup. I can only imagine what he'd do with an even more pathetic one

[jung]

Amazing similarities between the Spanks and BoSox this season..with the exception of their records. However that even now seems an issue of timing more than anything else. Both teams have hung onto aging stars to long and have been to focused on acquiring and keeping those aging stars as cornerstones of their respective teams which might have been fine if they were not confronted by teams of younger, hungrier players.

 

I honestly don't expect the Spanks to go very far in this year's post season assuming they don't fall all the way out.

 

The whole super long contract "thing" should be seriously called into question at least based on recent results. If you are going to measure things in terms of championships, you don't seem to get enough of those even with those players in their primes and then you are stuck with them as thy age, become more prone to injury and less capable of coming back from injury.

 

The reality of Ortiz this year will end up being a fantastic half year of play and that is likely what you could realistically expect of a guy his age next year as well. As much as you want that performance, does it really make sense to pay for it under the circumstances if you had to commit to more time than you can see out ahead of the player?

 

Going back to my earlier comment about long term contracts (which don't apply in the Ortiz case) I would think that a team wants to remain as flexible as possible in this market not tying itself to these ridiculously long monetary commitments. That might even suggest that Ortiz does make sense for the Sox as he does not carry any of that "gotta' give him seven years" baggage at this point. Seems to me that strapping yourself to these long term GUARANTEED deals is the real killer.

 

I am actually beginning to wonder if there are some overarching issues here with player longevity in this modern era that is really at the heart of the problem with the long term guaranteed contract in baseball. Has the travel and the schedule and the incentive to stay at peak performance levels simply become more than these athletes can handle? Some of them don't look like they are built for longevity to begin with (Prince for example) and you can't really point to the teams they play for and draw the conclusion that they are even a cinch to make the post season, never mind succeed there.

 

How many teams that are really succeeding lately are succeeding based on building a team of "stars" that hang on long term vs teams that retain some level of flexibility, feeding new pieces into the puzzle on a regular basis? Maybe it makes sense to hang onto a guy like Jeter or Pedey for example...two guys for whom there is never a doubt about their commitment to the game they play and allow them to become the central figures that your team is built around but to keep new pieces feeding in around them as a means of extracting the most value and performance out of your organization.

 

Even starting pitching, clearly the most important element to a team's performance seems to be a place where you want to be able to feed guys in before they become this year's candidate for surgery of the year. Sure a guy like Felix Hernandez is worth the risk of all the innings and all the pitches finally catching up to him but there are probably not five pitchers in all major league baseball you can say that about, not twenty-five.

[a700hitter]

Amazing similarities between the Spanks and BoSox this season..with the exception of their records. However that even now seems an issue of timing more than anything else. Both teams have hung onto aging stars to long and have been to focused on acquiring and keeping those aging stars as cornerstones of their respective teams which might have been fine if they were not confronted by teams of younger, hungrier players.

 

I honestly don't expect the Spanks to go very far in this year's post season assuming they don't fall all the way out.

 

The whole super long contract "thing" should be seriously called into question at least based on recent results. If you are going to measure things in terms of championships, you don't seem to get enough of those even with those players in their primes and then you are stuck with them as thy age, become more prone to injury and less capable of coming back from injury.

 

The reality of Ortiz this year will end up being a fantastic half year of play and that is likely what you could realistically expect of a guy his age next year as well. As much as you want that performance, does it really make sense to pay for it under the circumstances if you had to commit to more time than you can see out ahead of the player?

 

Going back to my earlier comment about long term contracts (which don't apply in the Ortiz case) I would think that a team wants to remain as flexible as possible in this market not tying itself to these ridiculously long monetary commitments. That might even suggest that Ortiz does make sense for the Sox as he does not carry any of that "gotta' give him seven years" baggage at this point. Seems to me that strapping yourself to these long term GUARANTEED deals is the real killer.

 

I am actually beginning to wonder if there are some overarching issues here with player longevity in this modern era that is really at the heart of the problem with the long term guaranteed contract in baseball. Has the travel and the schedule and the incentive to stay at peak performance levels simply become more than these athletes can handle? Some of them don't look like they are built for longevity to begin with (Prince for example) and you can't really point to the teams they play for and draw the conclusion that they are even a cinch to make the post season, never mind succeed there.

 

How many teams that are really succeeding lately are succeeding based on building a team of "stars" that hang on long term vs teams that retain some level of flexibility, feeding new pieces into the puzzle on a regular basis? Maybe it makes sense to hang onto a guy like Jeter or Pedey for example...two guys for whom there is never a doubt about their commitment to the game they play and allow them to become the central figures that your team is built around but to keep new pieces feeding in around them as a means of extracting the most value and performance out of your organization.

 

Even starting pitching, clearly the most important element to a team's performance seems to be a place where you want to be able to feed guys in before they become this year's candidate for surgery of the year. Sure a guy like Felix Hernandez is worth the risk of the all the innings and all the pitches finally catching up to him but there are probably not five pitchers in all major league baseball you can say that about, not twenty-five.

With regard to yThe comparison that have drawn between the Red Sox and the Skanks, I heard a clip this morning where Girardi said that the Skanks need to go on a run.

Where have we heard that before?

[Bellhorn04]

If you guys got Girardi, you'd be in last place for the next 3 seasons. It took nearly 120 games for him to start playing any sort of small ball with this pathetic lineup. I can only imagine what he'd do with an even more pathetic one

 

Funny how things look different from the outside. I thought Girardi was doing a pretty good job because the Yankees have had so many injuries.

[Hawkguy]

I must admit that I thought he was what the Sox needed after Tito lost the team. But watching and listening to this man all year long, I have to ask myself, what the hell is going on inside his head? All the mistakes as something as simple as the lineup to publicly calling out players, he has got to go!! The FO has to see this. I just read Finn's article and as much I hate the Globes spin, Chad summed it up to a tee.

[a700hitter]

Funny how things look different from the outside. I thought Girardi was doing a pretty good job because the Yankees have had so many injuries.

Girardi is horrible. He gets bailed out of his stupid moves all the time, because he has a very talented roster.

[Bellhorn04]

Girardi is horrible. He gets bailed out of his stupid moves all the time, because he has a very talented roster.

 

But you think most managers are idiots.

[a700hitter]

But you think most managers are idiots.

Yes, this is true, and they are a very dumb group on the whole.