Jose Iglesias

[Dojji]

@PeteAbe: Since 2004, Iglesias is the 9th shortstop the #RedSox have traded (Ciriaco, Aviles, Punto, Scutaro, Lowrie, Lugo, Renteria, Garciaparra).

Is anyone really lamenting the loss of any of these guys aside from Lowrie?

 

Mark Melancon was such an indispensible part of the 2012 juggernaut though!

[jung]

So does Holt getting the call now suggest that we don't see XB till the call ups?

 

WMB's LH/RH splits look hideous even at the AAA level. WMB's average is creeping up but not by much again mostly I would guess because the splits are so far apart. As it gets later and later in the season I think it more likely we see XB than WMB, maybe at 3rd instead of SS. That said I would prefer that XB stay at SS.

Edited July 31, 2013 by jung

[RedSoxNC84]

DFA Gomes!

[mvp 78]

DFA Gomes!

 

[dupree]

R u serious?

[RedSoxNC84]

Mark Melancon was such an indispensible part of the 2012 juggernaut though!

 

Anyone remember the famous quote "YOU JUST GOT MELANCON'D"

[dupree]

Is that like being Rick Roll'd?

[RedSoxNC84]

R u serious?

 

As serious as a (fake) heart attack.

[jung]

Those stats on WMB are pretty alarming at this point. The guy gets sent down...knows there are issues or why would he be sent down....and apparently still can't make any headway, even working to resolve those issues. It is getting to the point where it would not surprise me to see the Sox ultimately decide that he needs an off season...a plan and some help.

 

The carrot is of course that everybody acknowledges that the hardest thing to find in baseball now is a middle of the order bat. Not real sure that helping hitters restructure themselves and make it back is a real Red Sox hallmark within their coaching ranks. Loney moves to Tampa and turns into the hitter that he promised!!! Not a real recommendation for the coaching staffs that had him before the Rays, including the Sox. What help Iggy has gotten appears to have come from players, not coaches.

 

if WMB gets to the off season struggling, which is likely at this point I suspect, maybe the Sox get him a consultant to work with him and help him climb back.

[Palodios]

@PeteAbe: Since 2004, Iglesias is the 9th shortstop the #RedSox have traded (Ciriaco, Aviles, Punto, Scutaro, Lowrie, Lugo, Renteria, Garciaparra).

Is anyone really lamenting the loss of any of these guys aside from Lowrie?

 

Scutaro was traded for pretty much nothing, and then he had a monster postseason for the Giants. He was one of the few players on that team that still had the kind of grit and sportsmanship that we only have been seeing in Boston recently.

[mvp 78]

He can't play SS anymore.

[vjcsmoke]

Over his last 46 games (more than 1/4 of a season), Iggy was hitting .256/.301/.301/.601, with 0 hr and 12 rbi. That may be his true offensive level, and if so, paired with his glove, makes him a pretty useful SS. Detroit would love that.

 

However, even though he really struggled this year in the majors, Middlebrooks' season line (53 games) is: .192/.228/.389/.617, 9 hr, 25 rbi. If this is the "crappy" version of Middlebrooks, that means there's a LOT of room for improvement. We know he's a very capable hitter.

 

But even if that's all we get, it's *still* an offensive upgrade at 3b from Iglesias. And Middlebrooks' glove is very good for 3b. A lot of Iglesias' glove magic is underutilized at 3b (compared to SS). I'll happily put Middlebrooks into the lineup and put him in the #9 hole to take the pressure off, and just let him hit the occasional homer, and maybe, just maybe, he'll get back to last year's form. Iglesias could never touch that.

 

Iggy has a magic glove. And that I think will stay but his bat turned back into a pumpkin in July. The Red Sox had a unique opportunity because Detroit's SS was about to be banned/suspended for 50 games, and they needed a defensive SS badly. We had what they needed in Iglesias and they took it, in exchange we got what we needed , Peavy, a solid #2/#3 veteran pitcher to bolster our rotation for a playoff run.

 

Really hard to get upset about this trade. I think Iggy's upside is a 250-270 batter with maybe a 650-700 ops with a great glove. We might miss his defense but not his bat. Plus we've got Xander Bogaerts waiting in the wings. Bogaerts has Hanley Ramirez type upside.

[SoxSport]

Great situation for Iggy in Detroit. Playing next to Miggy--the offense. Iggy--the defense. Miggy-Iggy.Sooner or later the media will pick up on that. In Detroit, there is no pressure for him to hit--only to field. And there is no media to carp on his hitting while ignoring his defense.

 

The heat is off Iggy offensively, which will probably help his hitting. The concern is this kid could be the all-star SS next year. Or he could hit .180 and be a utility player.

[jung]

Seems to me that Detroit wanted Iggy, unlike the Sox who appeared to tolerate Iggy in spite of the money the paid him. So, I don't see Iggy as a utility player next year. I think Detroit will give him his shot.

 

Now what none of us probably know at this point is if Detroit is the kind of team (which does exist by the way) that will tolerate more like a 220-230 BA to go with that glove or if they will insist on seeing the sunny side of .250. Pitchers have found his current weak spots and he must improve again in order to stay above that .250 hill. At some point pitchers are going to stop letting him even put the ball on the ground since he does not put it in the air for any power. There goes the leg hits.

[Palodios]

It always felt like there was some stat guy who convinced the FO that Iglesias would be a very good trade chip in the future, and that's why they signed him. He turned out to be exactly what they paid for, and he still ended up being pushed out of position for a Drew.

[Dojji]

You don't always signj a guy because you want to use him yourself. Signing a guy because you found him, you can sign him cheaply, and he has potential value, is just fine, nothing wrong with it.

 

I'm gonna miss Iggy. I like defense up the middle, I think it's crucial. BUT the Sox FO didn't surprise me one bit here, and I can see what they're thinking.

[Orange Juiced]

Iggy has a magic glove. And that I think will stay but his bat turned back into a pumpkin in July. The Red Sox had a unique opportunity because Detroit's SS was about to be banned/suspended for 50 games, and they needed a defensive SS badly. We had what they needed in Iglesias and they took it, in exchange we got what we needed , Peavy, a solid #2/#3 veteran pitcher to bolster our rotation for a playoff run.

 

Really hard to get upset about this trade. I think Iggy's upside is a 250-270 batter with maybe a 650-700 ops with a great glove. We might miss his defense but not his bat. Plus we've got Xander Bogaerts waiting in the wings. Bogaerts has Hanley Ramirez type upside.

 

Bogaerts has, from all accounts and number-crunching, much more upside than Hanley Ramirez.

 

Which, of course, is good for the Red Sox.

[Orange Juiced]

Seems to me that Detroit wanted Iggy, unlike the Sox who appeared to tolerate Iggy in spite of the money the paid him. So, I don't see Iggy as a utility player next year. I think Detroit will give him his shot.

 

Now what none of us probably know at this point is if Detroit is the kind of team (which does exist by the way) that will tolerate more like a 220-230 BA to go with that glove or if they will insist on seeing the sunny side of .250. Pitchers have found his current weak spots and he must improve again in order to stay above that .250 hill. At some point pitchers are going to stop letting him even put the ball on the ground since he does not put it in the air for any power. There goes the leg hits.

 

Detroit needed a SS b/c of the Peralta steroid issue. I don't think it was just a "want" on their part.

[jacksonianmarch]

Bogaerts has, from all accounts and number-crunching, much more upside than Hanley Ramirez.

 

Which, of course, is good for the Red Sox.

 

That's a ridiculous quote. He has more upside in what way? He's gonna hit .400 with 40HR and 80 steals? That's a ridiculous statement and you know it

[Orange Juiced]

That's a ridiculous quote. He has more upside in what way? He's gonna hit .400 with 40HR and 80 steals? That's a ridiculous statement and you know it

 

I'm just telling you what I've read. Here's another way to look at it. Here are their respective minor league numbers at the same ages:

 

Ramirez

2002 (18) - Rookie, A - 289 pa, 7 hr, 45 rbi, .352/.401/.548/.949

2003 (19) - A - 464 pa, 8 hr, 50 rbi, .275/.327/.403/.730

2004 (20) - A+, AA, Rookie - 428 pa, 6 hr, 46 rbi, .314/.369/.436/.804

2005 (21) - AA - 519 pa, 6 hr, 52 rbi, .271/.335/.385/.720

 

Bogaerts

2011 (18) - A - 296 pa, 16 hr, 45 rbi, .260/.324/.509/.834

2012 (19) - A+, AA - 532 pa, 20 hr, 81 rbi, .307/.373/.523/.896

2013 (20) - AA, AAA - 439 pa, 14 hr, 59 rbi, .298/.397/.493/.891

 

So to look at it by ages:

 

18 yrs old

Ramirez (Rookie, A) - 289 pa, 7 hr, 45 rbi, .352/.401/.548/.949

Bogaerts (A) - 296 pa, 16 hr, 45 rbi, .260/.324/.509/.834

 

19 yrs old

Ramirez (A) - 464 pa, 8 hr, 50 rbi, .275/.327/.403/.730

Bogaerts (A+, AA) - 532 pa, 20 hr, 81 rbi, .307/.373/.523/.896

 

20 yrs old

Ramirez (A+, AA, Rookie) - 428 pa, 6 hr, 46 rbi, .314/.369/.436/.804

Bogaerts (AA, AAA) - 439 pa, 14 hr, 59 rbi, .298/.397/.493/.891

 

So at each age, Bogaerts was playing higher up in the system than Hanley. And his overall production was greater. Hanley gets the edge as an 18-year old in production, but he was playing at a lower level then.

 

So looking at these numbers, we see that Bogaerts was more productive at the same respective ages than Hanley, *while playing each of those respective seasons at a higher level*.

 

That says to me that Bogaerts' upside is greater than Hanley's. Hanley had several spectacular years and is really gifted. Bogaerts looks like he could project to be even better.

[jung]

No question that Peralta's issues sorta' forced Detroit to get a SS. But as I recall, they did not have an Heir Apparent sitting somewhere close enough to come up and play. That to me was the dif. We have XB waiting in the wings.

 

What is interesting for us is how we deal with this issue of XB's frame and does he eventually outgrow SS. Maybe it does not matter. If XB retains his nimbleness, flexibility and range, maybe it is a mute point. Sure bigger guys find it easier to absorb some of the stuff they take at the hot corner but if XB is big but still nimble and quick he should be able to stay at SS.

 

So far, I haven't seen how XB is getting so big that it is an issue.

[mvp 78]

Show of hands. Who thinks Bogaerts is older than he says he is?

[Palodios]

Show of hands. Who thinks Bogaerts is older than he says he is?

 

And Hanley is from the DR. What's your point?

[SoxFanForsyth]

He's still got a baby face. If he's older than he says, it's only a year. He looks really young still

[MNSoxChief102]

He's still got a baby face. If he's older than he says, it's only a year. He looks really young still

 

I agree. I'd be surprised if he's any older than he claims. He's from Aruba not the DR... somehow I doubt he's pulling a Fausto on us.

[mvp 78]

He's still got a baby face. If he's older than he says, it's only a year. He looks really young still

 

I have a friend who got carded going into a R rated mobie when he was in his 20's.

[mvp 78]

I agree. I'd be surprised if he's any older than he claims. He's from Aruba not the DR... somehow I doubt he's pulling a Fausto on us.

 

Pulling a Tejada you mean.

[mvp 78]

And Hanley is from the DR. What's your point?

 

People are projecting him for HOF numbers because "he's only 20." What if he was 23? Would his projections be different?

[User Name]

I agree. I'd be surprised if he's any older than he claims. He's from Aruba not the DR... somehow I doubt he's pulling a Fausto on us.

 

So only players from the DR change their DOB?

[Bellhorn04]

People are projecting him for HOF numbers because "he's only 20." What if he was 23? Would his projections be different?

 

Don't they do a Lyin' Latino Factor adjustment for that now?