8/31 @ A's Blue Moon...I saw you standing alone...

[jung]

What do those successful teams have that the Sox nor the BlueJays have? Pitching. It will be tough for the Sox to get back quickly because in truth they really have one guy in the rotation that we might say is solid at season end....presuming he continues at his current pace and that is Buch. Buch would slot in as a very solid 2. Nobody cares about 4's and 5's until they end up being mush like Cook and dice or various and sundry other flotsam and jetsam. So really it is looking like we may have a 2 in Buch, have no idea who would be a 1, and have serious question marks everywhere else. We can HOPE that one of Felix or Lester or Lackey or Morales might be a 3. I guess for now we are left plugging the other guys into the remaining 4 and 5 holes. A super solid 1 makes a huge difference but if you think about it, a super solid 1 probably puts the Sox were most "decent" not great but decent rotations are in the ML....two guys carrying the load and a cast of question marks behind them.

 

They have much farther to go to have a rotation that you would think can take you to and through a post season run.

[Taz]

Bard is way off the pace... throwing junk like that right down the middle...

[a700hitter]

SBF was right about Bard. He's shot.

[Station 13]

WTF happened to his velocity? He's not going to get away throwing 92.

[jung]

Iggy finds a way on base...taking a page from the Shoppach school of hitting!

[Station 13]

Bard need to skip the media session post game. Nothing to report and no more poison whispered in his ears.

[DocHolliday]

Our division is simply scary. I really don't know how long it will take for the Sox to be a competitor again. But with the Yanks and Rays playing as good as they always do, and now Baltimore in the picture this division is insane. Not to mention the Bluejays always start the season hot, but seem to fade out. They might be a tough team next season if they play an entire season rather then just half. They have given the sox a lot of trouble this year. Then again.... Most teams have. It's sad to say but the Sox are going to have to be better then good next year to compete in this division. And that is a LONG LONG road from what we are this season.

 

I'm not saying the division isn't competitive, but I have my doubts that next year will be a repeat of the kind of outcomes we are seeing now.

 

Take Baltimore's success this year as an example. The majority of teams, good and bad, hover around the .500 mark in 1 run games, some teams with good bullpens give their team the edge in those games. The O's have been 24-6 in those games. 24-6 is not sustainable for any team in the long term. It reminds me of a "hot" shooter at the craps table - in the long run, eventually the dice will crap out due to simple probability. Next year, I would be shocked if they can replicate this level of success in close games. Above league average (giving credit to their bullpen) would put them around 18-12 in these games, making them 67-64.

 

Tampa's pitching has been incredible for years, but some of their guys will begin to near FA (Shields this or next offseason) or will see big pay raises through arbitration (Price). This year, their offense has been completely non existent at times when Longoria is out of the lineup. His health has become a legitimate question over the last couple of years. Their economic situation forces them to rely heavily in the young pitching and hitting on offensive pieces each offseason. They will have to get even more creative in the coming years unless their budget changes considerably (maybe the new ESPN deal will help).

 

At some point, the Yankees aging core will finally have a much overdue year where they lose their effectiveness. Their ability to spend will be able to offset the decline to an extent. I'm just not convinced that they are going to have the replacements on hand if that decline happens to come, say next year.

 

Maybe one of these years, Toronto will put it all together with their young pitching and be a serious threat. I wouldn't be surprised if that comes next season.

 

Not saying all of these things are going to happen at once - just saying the sport is dynamic and no one season necessarily reflects how the next season will be decided.

[jung]

The only poison anybody ever poured into Bard's ear was the thought that he had a future as a ML pitcher, short circuiting a very promising career as a parking lot attendant.

[Taz]

It's amazing to me that we are less than an hr from the beginning of September and the A's and O's are leading the wild card. These were teams that nobody had on their radar at the beginning of the season.

 

The O's were hot out of the gate and haven't faded out like they have in recent years - thanks in large part to a statistically defying record in 1 run games and hits on all of their young pitchers.

 

Meanwhile the A's stumbled out of the gate and caught fire at about the time the Sox were in Oakland in early July. In a way, their run this year is similar to their "moneyball" years when they we're ridiculously hot during the 2nd half.

 

If you include the Rays in the conversation, that is 3 of the 8 legitimate contenders for playoff spots in the AL with either weak fan support and/or small market challenges. Without the thrill of a 1 game wild card game, a Orioles/Rays, A's/Rays, or Orioles/A's playoff matchup in a 5 or 7 game series would likely go down as the least followed playoff matchup in years.

 

Our division is simply scary. I really don't know how long it will take for the Sox to be a competitor again. But with the Yanks and Rays playing as good as they always do, and now Baltimore in the picture this division is insane. Not to mention the Bluejays always start the season hot, but seem to fade out. They might be a tough team next season if they play an entire season rather then just half. They have given the sox a lot of trouble this year. Then again.... Most teams have. It's sad to say but the Sox are going to have to be better then good next year to compete in this division. And that is a LONG LONG road from what we are this season.

 

Part of the equation that hasn't been mentioned here is that the Sox are the only team in the AL E that has posted a losing home record. Even the Jays have a better record at home than what the Sox do at Fenway.

 

When the rebuilding for next year gets underway it needs to be done with consideration as to how they would be able to perform at home. It's all well to be producing .500 ball on the road, but unless you are making the most of home field advantage where a team plays half of the games of the season then it's like perennially being stuck behind the 8 ball.

[jung]

When the rebuilding for next year gets underway it needs to be done with consideration as to how they would be able to perform at home. It's all well to be producing .500 ball on the road, but unless you are making the most of home field advantage where a team plays half of the games of the season then it's like perennially being stuck behind the 8 ball.

 

The surest sign of the lack of a cohesive team. I did not even think it a coherent team...the Crawford signing being the last straw in a completely incomprehensible effort if the idea was to build a team that wins games. Can pretty much see the logic in what they were doing if the idea was to keep pink hats climbing over each other to get in the front gate. However if the idea was to win games, these guys lost their way several trades, FA signings and extensions ago.

 

Talk about a low point...battered into submission by Oakland's murderers row.

[DocHolliday]

Is it possible that the pitching has either stayed the same, or even gotten worse, since the megatrade and firing McClure? These are the Oakland Freaking A's and they have scored 13 runs. There have been times this year when they could not score 13 runs in 2 weeks.

[Brennan]

I have been watching the night games for the last few days but not posting cause there isn't anything good to say but I have reached my limit right now.

 

This team is a f***ing disgrace to the uniforms they wear. f***ing shitcan as many of them as you can right now and burn their jerseys. How the f*** Henry and co. can sit there and insult our intelligence by keeping garbage like Melancon and Cook and Aceves as a closer and still not realize that the fan base is tired of having smoke blown up their ass is beyond me. If your'e new love is soccer or whatever the f*** have you Mr. Henry, please sell the team asap so we can enjoy our passion again.

[jung]

Well eventually the pen just dies on you. I have been saying for weeks that there are just so many times in a given year when you can gas the pen completely. They had done it once by the start of July, a second time by the end of July and are now going through the 3rd period this year when the pen has been completely gassed. This is much like bicycle racing. Once you body goes into oxygen death, you have to get off the bike. Nothing will work other than a complete long rest.

 

Once you gas the pen this many times in a given year, they will not come back for you until you put them on the shelf for like an off season.

 

People scoffed at me when I said they had gassed the pen even earlier this year than they did last year. Their starting pitching has simply put the pen into to many holes to many times this season. They have left V with no real good choices other than try to stretch out a failing starter or be submitted to what we have tonight.

 

They will get by for the remainder of the year on pure luck...that is all that is left to them...pure luck. Least we ever doubt the importance of real pitching....not pitching names but real pitching....all we need do is look at this season.

 

Frankly I do not much care to think about the Hamilton's of the world until I see some sort of indication that the Sox realize that the next big bopper FA is not going to get them anywhere. They need a plan that will provide them sustainable pitching before getting us another big bat to oh and ah over.

 

You need solid starting pitching and a cohesive lineup made up of everyday players that compliment each other as opposed to having everyday players that you could describe as a few glitzy stars surrounded by bums cause this what you have the money for after paying the glitzy stars.

[User Name]

Is this rock bottom?

[TylerD]

I'm not saying the division isn't competitive, but I have my doubts that next year will be a repeat of the kind of outcomes we are seeing now.

 

Take Baltimore's success this year as an example. The majority of teams, good and bad, hover around the .500 mark in 1 run games, some teams with good bullpens give their team the edge in those games. The O's have been 24-6 in those games. 24-6 is not sustainable for any team in the long term. It reminds me of a "hot" shooter at the craps table - in the long run, eventually the dice will crap out due to simple probability. Next year, I would be shocked if they can replicate this level of success in close games. Above league average (giving credit to their bullpen) would put them around 18-12 in these games, making them 67-64.

 

Tampa's pitching has been incredible for years, but some of their guys will begin to near FA (Shields this or next offseason) or will see big pay raises through arbitration (Price). This year, their offense has been completely non existent at times when Longoria is out of the lineup. His health has become a legitimate question over the last couple of years. Their economic situation forces them to rely heavily in the young pitching and hitting on offensive pieces each offseason. They will have to get even more creative in the coming years unless their budget changes considerably (maybe the new ESPN deal will help).

 

At some point, the Yankees aging core will finally have a much overdue year where they lose their effectiveness. Their ability to spend will be able to offset the decline to an extent. I'm just not convinced that they are going to have the replacements on hand if that decline happens to come, say next year.

 

Maybe one of these years, Toronto will put it all together with their young pitching and be a serious threat. I wouldn't be surprised if that comes next season.

 

Not saying all of these things are going to happen at once - just saying the sport is dynamic and no one season necessarily reflects how the next season will be decided.

 

I agree for the most part. But I still think Yanks and Rays will be powerhouses for at least the next three years. Baltimore is as you said a huge question mark. I myself am still shocked as to how good they are this year. I don't think they will go far in the playoffs but that's another subject. The Jays are a couple good pitchers away from being a super good team. Will they find those pitchers? I have no idea, but this division is a very dangerous one for the Sox if they keep up this mediocre play. Or lately Terrible play.....

[DocHolliday]

What a way to cap off 1 full year of daily misery than to see the Oakland A's score 18 runs, with what seems like 14 of them coming from former Red Sox farmhands.

 

This road trip is shaping up to be the final straw for me with V for next season. The megatrade and firing of Bob McClure should have taken the pressure off him and the team he manages. These guys have nothing to lose and should be playing with something to prove. Instead, V continues to manage this team to "new ends of the earth".

 

In my view, there is absolutely no way you can justify bringing this guy back next year if he can't manage this team through a pressure less month plus end of the season. I think Callahan said it best this morning where it would be like electing a new president and vice president into office but keeping the secretary of state from the previous regime in place.

[a700hitter]

Another new low for the season. Goodness, they are so embarrassing that they should start playing with paper bags on their heads.

[Brennan]

I don't want to hear the crap about reconfiguring this piece of s*** pitcher to this role and Aviles as next years SS and Morales as a number two next year and Lackey maybe and possibly give an extension to DiceK next season because he pitched a good game for once in 4 years... We know what having these pieces amounts too. You're watching it right now.

 

Bleh..

 

Blow this pile of crap of the earth, it is an insult to baseball.

[jung]

I rarely agree with anything Callahan has to say. But for me, bringing in a manager that had been out of managing for ten years was another PR move just like many of the Sox glitzy signings have been PR moves that could simply not be rationalized as part of an effort to build a team. It was the very first thing I posted here when V was being leaked into the media as a potential choice....Larry's choice.

 

How does it make sense to bring in a manager that has not managed in ten years to manage in one of the most difficult situations on the planet, AT THE BEST OF TIMES! Tell me how that made any sense whatsoever. The LL Red Sox have done just about everything they have done for show and very very little for go since the last championship. They have done it to the point now where they are really in a hole.

 

There is no justifiable reason to bring V back next year....which is exactly why I am scared to death that it is exactly what they will do.

[Brennan]

And how supposed baseball people in the FO can't see that despite he gets hot with a bat for three weeks a season, Salty is f***ing a f***ing horrible catcher tells me that they need to blow the FO sky high as well.

[jung]

And I also agree with Brennan that talking about these bums in terms of the slots they might fill next year is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. In truth that is very much what they did to us this year...lets see, Bard will be our 5 (until he implodes), Felix will be our 4 (until he needs to go on the shelf because he won't be able to last the innings, Buch will be our 3 (if he holds up), Beckett will be our 2 (if he successfully makes the career transition he is going through) and Lester will be our 1 (if he is finally able to do what was expected of him since 2010).

 

And if that fails, we have Cook and dice coming back! Oh boy I can tell ya' I was excited.

[Taz]

There goes another one... 20-2...

 

At least it's almost over - for tonight at least. Doubront tomorrow.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

LMAO

[Brennan]

How do you answer the allmighty A's 20 run assault?

 

 

Ask the 2012 Red Sox imposters... with a mighty 2 run attack headed up by the power hitting Mike Aviles as DH again. f*** it, might as well get DMac back and try again with that logic.

 

Who is this team kidding?

[jung]

In case you are wondering it is 3-3 in the bottom of ninth Ari-LAD. AGons is 0-3 with a strike out and a pop up.

[jung]

Well I said two weeks ago that this team was going to fall apart at the end just like they did last year. Only dif...falling about from 5th place instead of falling apart from 1st place. That may be the silver lining. By the time this team is done losing.....with starters that cannot go more than a few innings and a completely burned out pen, two years running, Management will not be able to hide behind the injuries or any other ********.

[DocHolliday]

New poll: does V survive September?

[Youk Of The Nation]

Well, this is...disappointing.

[Brennan]

Well I said two weeks ago that this team was going to fall apart at the end just like they did last year. Only dif...falling about from 5th place instead of falling apart from 1st place. That may be the silver lining. By the time this team is done losing.....with starters that cannot go more than a few innings and a completely burned out pen, two years running, Management will not be able to hide behind the injuries or any other ********.

 

 

 

 

I was right there with you. I also am really questioning V's motives right now too. His mismanagement makes me wonder how much of it is just spitefully sticking it to the higher ups at this point. He makes mishandling a bullpen look like an art form for God's sake.

[Brennan]

New poll: does V survive September?

 

 

 

Yes. Why? does it seem like the FO wants to limit their embarrassment or the fan's suffering at this point?