Now What?

[Nomar33]

just curious as to peoples thoughts on some subjects. - yes i have read through the trade tread and 2013 but didn't really see these topics if i did repeat one sorry

 

1) How can the Red Sox compete in the FA market (without offering those huge contracts), i can't believe that there isn't a huge scarlet letter on this franchise.

 

2) some people are touting going out and getting a Josh Hamilton, which i don't understand. Wouldn't that take a contract just like the ones we got rid of? And how would he survive in Boston with the media and pressure? How high risk is he to start his bad ways again?

 

3) There are no real FA this year - who is avail in 2014

 

4) Do we really want to spend the Boras money on Elsbury?

 

5) Could we get Felix? Really the only franchise game changer out there right now (IMO)

 

6) Can we renegotiate Lackey (the clause in his contract that we get an other year at minimum wage should have kicked in) do we suck it up and pay $15x2 or see if we can spread it out over 3 years @ 10M?

[ibot2much]

#6...The thought of seeing Lackey for even one game makes me gag. Apparently he will be really, really difficult to get rid of...one of the early Theo bone headed signings...before the AG and CC contracts.

[resdubwhite]

It may be the postive energy talking.

 

But I kick lackey to touch. Pay him off. NEver let him dress for this team again.

It won't happen, but I'd love to see his face.

[example1]

Too soon to predict. I think that their success with one year stop gaps like Beltre and Ross makes that approach extremely attractive moving forward.

 

I also don't expect to see them spending as much moving forward. I may be wrong, but there are so many other approaches it would be unwise to sign longterm FA contracts. That said, being aggressive on international FAs like Soler and Cespedes seem like better uses of funds.

 

Are the Sox now the richest, least financially committed team in baseball? I can't think of another. Maybe the rangers (can't check cots now) but their day is coming to resign their best players too. Philly, Angels, Dodgers, Yankees... Maybe the mets, how is their financial commitment moving forward.

 

To some degree it appears that the Sox and Cubs will be competing to be the big market rebuilder. The Sox, however, we're able to get out from under their contracts. The cubs, not as much.

[resdubwhite]

these moves also make the club a very attractive proposal to a new owner.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Too soon to predict. I think that their success with one year stop gaps like Beltre and Ross makes that approach extremely attractive moving forward.

 

I also don't expect to see them spending as much moving forward. I may be wrong, but there are so many other approaches it would be unwise to sign longterm FA contracts. That said, being aggressive on international FAs like Soler and Cespedes seem like better uses of funds.

 

Are the Sox now the richest, least financially committed team in baseball? I can't think of another. Maybe the rangers (can't check cots now) but their day is coming to resign their best players too. Philly, Angels, Dodgers, Yankees... Maybe the mets, how is their financial commitment moving forward.

 

To some degree it appears that the Sox and Cubs will be competing to be the big market rebuilder. The Sox, however, we're able to get out from under their contracts. The cubs, not as much.

 

Plus, the Cubs are the Cubs, so really, what chance do they have?

[Behindenemylines]

The $pankees have more commited next year for the left side of the infield then the Sox do right now for the whole team. I'm sure if you look at commitments in salaries for next year right now the Sox are in the bottom third in the league.

[VA Sox Fan]

these moves also make the club a very attractive proposal to a new owner.

 

We can hope and pray. I would be elated!

[TheMeanWalrus]

Let me take a pop at this:

 

1) How can the Red Sox compete in the FA market (without offering those huge contracts), i can't believe that there isn't a huge scarlet letter on this franchise.

Why would there be a scarlett letter on the franchise? Boston is, and remains, one of the most attractive spots for a potential FA. Granted this is largely due to their capacity to spend, but there is certainly no "scarlett letter"

2) some people are touting going out and getting a Josh Hamilton, which i don't understand. Wouldn't that take a contract just like the ones we got rid of? And how would he survive in Boston with the media and pressure? How high risk is he to start his bad ways again?

 

It's only gonna take one team to give Hamilton what he's looking for so my guess is he will get it but given his history of addiction, two KNOWN relapses, age (32 for next year) and borderline great numbers, I think the offers for his services are gonna be limited. Hamilton is one of the most over-hyped players in baseball. He has a great story, if he stays clean, has very good numbers, but the hype is all around the big HR Derby he had in NY, the four HR game and hot streaks he goes on where he is unconscious. If you look at his entire body of work, he is not an elite player and i think its clear his best years are behind him.

 

I do not want him in Boston

 

 

3) There are no real FA this year - who is avail in 2014

 

Felix Hernandez will be the prize going into 2014. But there is some talk about an Ellsbury, Lester and prospects deal to bring him to Boston sooner. It's not on the immediate radar but don't be surprised to see these "rumors" heating up this winter.

 

4) Do we really want to spend the Boras money on Elsbury?

 

No. And neither do the Red Sox.

 

5) Could we get Felix? Really the only franchise game changer out there right now (IMO)

 

See above but you're right, he is the MAN TO GET right now and I can't help but think that a lot of the salary they free'd up today is slated for Felix's pocketbook

 

As for John Lackey, he is the last of Theo's mistakes. He's gonna get his money, whether he ever throws another pitch in the majors so we all have to deal with it. Hopefully the TJ surgery helps him and he can develop into a #4 starter. No one is gonna take him off our hands, not at that price, and Lackey ain't going anywhere with all that cash on the table so we're gonna have to live with him. Like I said . . . if he can be a solid #4, I think we should be "happy"

[Emmz]

Yeah, I agree except Josh Hamilton is an elite offensive producer with good defense. He's going to make bank, and I would absolutely not be interested in that type of deal, see A-Rod for reasons why.

[Palodios]

Fun fact-- the Red Sox have upwards of 100 million coming off the books.

 

As grim as the free agent market may look, I think that the best bet for the Red Sox is going to be short one or two year deals anyway. If you have to throw out 1/10, 1/15, maybe even 1/20 deals to get the guys you want, the money is absolutely there.

 

Priority #1-- Re-sign Ross and Ortiz. Those guys anchor this team, and can definitely be had.

 

Find a first baseman. Someone who can mash and play the easiest defensive position in baseball. Seriously, its first base-- Get creative.

 

Maybe Marcum isn't seeing the money he wants because of his short season, and would accept a 1/15 deal, same thing for Brandon Mccarthy. There are a good number of second tier pitchers out there, Sanchez, Dempster and many team-optioned players headline that group.

[Nomar33]

Thank you Walrus and i totally agree with your comment about Hamilton - should not be wanted in Boston.

 

I mentioned the scarlet letter because of how brutal it is to play in Boston with the media - AGon was right when he said he answers more tabloid questions in Boston then Baseball questions. Now when you are making $20M a year that should be a non issue. See excerpt from ESPN article

 

Loser: The reputation of the Red Sox

 

Players and coaches constantly talk with players and coaches on other teams, which is why Boston's dysfunction and the toxic relationship between the Red Sox players and Bobby Valentine is so well known in other clubhouses, and it's how the stories of problems have been passed around the sport like a virulent flu.

 

Beckett might no longer be a favorite of Boston fans, but he is respected among players. Crawford is eminently likable. Genial Gonzalez knows practically everybody in both leagues because, as a first baseman, he gets a chance to speak to almost everyone. Other players will ask these players and others about what happened, and other players will hear about how it came to be that these three established stars embraced the opportunity to exit Boston less than two years after agreeing to massive contracts with the Red Sox. The stories told about the club's management and about Valentine will be ugly and perhaps one-sided, not necessarily fair. But they will become a factor as the Red Sox look to acquire players from other teams -- as well as retain their own stars, including Jacoby Ellsbury.

 

A decade ago, when the Orioles' decline became steep and no prominent player would seriously consider signing with Baltimore, then-GM of the Orioles Syd Thrift joked that it seemed as if his team was working with Confederate money. Unless there is a significant and tangible change, the Red Sox may well be facing a similar dynamic.

 

Not saying i agree with it entirely but i bet there is some truth to that. Guys like Pedroia and Bucholtz and the media need to be gushing about how focused this team is and how great the lockeroom is rest of this year - because if they bitch at all the winter becomes that much more difficult (JMO)

[win red sox]

The focus should be on 2014, I would go even as far as moving Ellsbury and Lester this offseason and stock up on pitching prospects and maybe a 1B(Olt or Moreland from texas would be nice), another thing to consider is that if we keep losing at our current rate, we might have a shot at Appel in the draft. I would also just make a qualifying offer to Ortiz. Potential 2014 lineup and rotation.

 

Bradley cf

Pedroia 2b

Ortiz/free agent dh

Bogarts ss

Moreland/olt 1b

Middlebrooks 3B

Kalish lf

Lavarnway c

Brentz rf

 

Buchholz

Barnes

Doubrant

Delarosa

Webster

[DocHolliday]

The focus should be on 2014, I would go even as far as moving Ellsbury and Lester this offseason and stock up on pitching prospects and maybe a 1B(Olt or Moreland from texas would be nice), another thing to consider is that if we keep losing at our current rate, we might have a shot at Appel in the draft. I would also just make a qualifying offer to Ortiz. Potential 2014 lineup and rotation.

 

Bradley cf

Pedroia 2b

Ortiz/free agent dh

Bogarts ss

Moreland/olt 1b

Middlebrooks 3B

Kalish lf

Lavarnway c

Brentz rf

 

Buchholz

Barnes

Doubrant

Delarosa

Webster

 

That is way too much to give up for Moreland. At best, Moreland is Teixiera at the plate with less power. Realistically, he's more along the lines of a Casey Kotchman 1b.

 

Still not convinced on Olt. But he's highly coveted and will be tough to pry away.

[rjortiz]

You like Brentz? He's having a so-so year in Portland. I think he's more of a 4th OF type, but he's not an elite defensive player. I would use him as a trade chip.

[Thunder]

just curious as to peoples thoughts on some subjects. - yes i have read through the trade tread and 2013 but didn't really see these topics if i did repeat one sorry

 

1) How can the Red Sox compete in the FA market (without offering those huge contracts), i can't believe that there isn't a huge scarlet letter on this franchise.

 

2) some people are touting going out and getting a Josh Hamilton, which i don't understand. Wouldn't that take a contract just like the ones we got rid of? And how would he survive in Boston with the media and pressure? How high risk is he to start his bad ways again?

 

3) There are no real FA this year - who is avail in 2014

 

4) Do we really want to spend the Boras money on Elsbury?

 

5) Could we get Felix? Really the only franchise game changer out there right now (IMO)

 

6) Can we renegotiate Lackey (the clause in his contract that we get an other year at minimum wage should have kicked in) do we suck it up and pay $15x2 or see if we can spread it out over 3 years @ 10M?

 

Josh Hamilton is available as well as Nick Swisher and Melky Cabrera. In 2014, you got King Felix.

[TheMeanWalrus]

Josh Hamilton is available as well as Nick Swisher and Melky Cabrera. In 2014, you got King Felix.

 

Swisher is an interesting thought although I think he is over 30 by a couple of years now and his best years are probably behind him. He'd hardly represent a "splash" in the FA pool, and really, what would the expectation be for him here?

 

.260

20-25 HR

75 or so RBI

 

Plus he's a Yankee so he has cooties now.

 

Melky Cabrera is clearly tarnished now

Signing him is begging for trouble

[jung]

It is interesting to wonder if Ells will actually get all the money if he does not snap out of it and at least look like he could be the player he was in 2011. Who knows, maybe with all this cash to play with, they get to keep Ells after all. Chances are Ells ends up being sort of an upper level payroll guy instead of a top of the market payroll guy. I think what we will see the Sox do (except for power pitchers , especially elite power pitchers) is go to the very top of the market for FA. That has been their downfall.

[iortiz]

Again... start looking a real GM.

[Dojji]

You like Brentz? He's having a so-so year in Portland. I think he's more of a 4th OF type, but he's not an elite defensive player. I would use him as a trade chip.

 

That's underselling Brentz like it was underselling Reddick. That kind of high tools, raw-skills player is a kind that can surprise you when they hit the majors.

[Dojji]

Josh Hamilton is available as well as Nick Swisher and Melky Cabrera. In 2014, you got King Felix.

 

In 2014, you MIGHT have King Felix. Seattle is on the upswing a bit, they have a talented young roster and attendance is up. They're not Tampa Bay at the worst of times. This is a team that can spend money to make money, and they're not about to let the centerpiece of the rebuild walk if they can help it. And it would not surprise me one little bit that the Ichiro trade was sparked by a desire to clear out anything that might force them to give up on the king.

 

That's the problem with projecting any FA 2 years out. The lion's share of them are either re-signed outright, or traded and then signed by the recipient team. Teams don't like letting big names walk for nothing.

 

As for what they need to do, most of it amounts to the long-term, boring, media-alienating, non-headline-inducing process of drafting, development and promoting from within -- the exact same thing they did to get themselves out of the doldrums in 2006, and the same thing they did to get themselves out of the doldrums in the late 90's. If there's a sure thing out there, sure, go nuts, but the core of every great team is homegrown. Even the Yankees knew that lesson, at least in the Dynasty years.

 

It might take more than one year. But if you really want this team to be a great one, you're going to need to take it on the chin, get through to the far side of the rebuild, and THEN build AROUND the young core that comes out of The minors. Trying to sign your core never works.

[Taliesin]

Maybe they can resign Ol Blood and Guts, The Texas Con Man himself, now pitching for the Sugar Land Skeeters. This has to be one of the most bizarre days in MLB history.

[Jasonbay44]

I think we should use the money we saved by trading Gonzalez/Crawford/Beckett and used it to give Melancon a fat extension to keep him in Boston for life, he deserves it.

[example1]

Anyone have thoughts about the Sox moving on Justin Upton? I know most people are in pitching mode (appropriately) but he's only 24 and is one of those uber talented players teams like Boston should covet.

 

My biggest concern is the return package, but an OF of Upton, Ellsbury and Kalish would be pretty interesting. His salary is basically 10, 14, 14 over the next 3 years.

 

I can't say he's the worlds best player, but at that price he's good. Also, with his age, there is high probability for a breakout season. He's got the tools to be one of the games best players for sure.

[a700hitter]

Anyone have thoughts about the Sox moving on Justin Upton? I know most people are in pitching mode (appropriately) but he's only 24 and is one of those uber talented players teams like Boston should covet.

 

My biggest concern is the return package, but an OF of Upton, Ellsbury and Kalish would be pretty interesting. His salary is basically 10, 14, 14 over the next 3 years.

 

I can't say he's the worlds best player, but at that price he's good. Also, with his age, there is high probability for a breakout season. He's got the tools to be one of the games best players for sure.

I am not crazy about either of the Uptons.

[SouthieFanatic]

Anyone have thoughts about the Sox moving on Justin Upton? I know most people are in pitching mode (appropriately) but he's only 24 and is one of those uber talented players teams like Boston should covet.

 

My biggest concern is the return package, but an OF of Upton, Ellsbury and Kalish would be pretty interesting. His salary is basically 10, 14, 14 over the next 3 years.

 

I can't say he's the worlds best player, but at that price he's good. Also, with his age, there is high probability for a breakout season. He's got the tools to be one of the games best players for sure.

 

I actually like the sound of that. Upton is a great great player just having a down year. He could break out and have an amazing season for all we know. If they can get him for reasonable $$$ I'd be all for it. I've given up on Kalish though with Bradley and Bogaerts (most likely future OF) in the system

[Behindenemylines]

I think I read some where that J. Upton has a limited no trade clause and Boston is one of the teams he can nix a trade to.

[SouthieFanatic]

I think I read some where that J. Upton has a limited no trade clause and Boston is one of the teams he can nix a trade to.

 

I thought he was a FA this season, but it turns out its just BJ :thumbdown .. I'd think twice about signing another former ray..

[YAZMAN]

Maybe they can resign Ol Blood and Guts, The Texas Con Man himself, now pitching for the Sugar Land Skeeters. This has to be one of the most bizarre days in MLB history.

 

We'd be better off bringing back Heidi...

 

Miss ya, J, hope all is well. TMW stopped by yesterday.

[SoxSport]

I think we should use the money we saved by trading Gonzalez/Crawford/Beckett and used it to give Melancon a fat extension to keep him in Boston for life, he deserves it.

 

That sounds like something Cherington might do. But Lucchino would stop him.