Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[Palodios]

It's bad enough you an insufferable know it all sawed off little s***, but to be full of it besides, boy you take the cake. In 2008 Anderson was rated the No. 1 Red Sox prospect and I think for a few months in 2009 he was up there too. Next time try to make sure your brain is engaged before putting your big mouth in gear. Jed Hoyer knew that Anderson was overrated and Rizzo a comer and that is why he smartly chose him while we stayed stuck with "Lazy Lars" until he wasn't worth anymore as a ballplayer than you are as a man. Now get lost and do not communicate with me again. I want no part of you.

 

We're talking about 2010, not 2008. At the time of the trade, it was well established that Rizzo was on the rise, and Anderson was falling fast. Everyone from Baseball America, Sox Prospects, to Bleacher Report had realized it.

 

If they valued Lars Anderson so highly, they wouldn't have tried to trade him for the lowly and injury-prone Rich Harden six month later.

[Palodios]

The Mets signed right-hander Scott Atchison to a minor league contract that includes an invitation to MLB Spring Training, the team announced (on Twitter). Agent Rich Thompson represents Atchison, who turns 37 in March.

 

Atchison pitched for the Red Sox in 2012, posting a 1.58 ERA with 6.3 K/9 and 1.6 BB/9 in 51 1/3 innings. The Red Sox non-tendered him at the end of November instead of proceeding through the arbitration process with a projected $800K salary. Atchison missed two months with forearm tightness last summer but returned to make five appearances in September. He considered Tommy John surgery, ultimately avoiding the procedure.

 

Okay, this is ridiculous. Can't even given Atchison a minor league contract?

[seabeachfred]

We're talking about 2010, not 2008. At the time of the trade, it was well established that Rizzo was on the rise, and Anderson was falling fast. Everyone from Baseball America, Sox Prospects, to Bleacher Report had realized it.

 

If they valued Lars Anderson so highly, they wouldn't have tried to trade him for the lowly and injury-prone Rich Harden six month later.

 

The point Palodios that escaped User and might have escaped you is that Anderson was still talked about as a solid prospect and was at Pawtucket flailing away and falling fast as you say. Rizzo was on the rise and no doubt would have supplanted him had the RedSox not traded him. The problem was the Red Sox brass miserably overrated a player that even posters on the various and sundry boards knew was a rhinestone. The very fact that Lars himself said baseball was only ONE of his many interests had to be a red flag to anyone who heard that. When you are a young 20-21 year old if baseball is not your first and foremost passion you're not going to make it no matter what kind of ability you have. Anderson didn't really have the ability either and he still doesn't, and for that reason the Red Sox would be dumb to even consider resigning him.

 

I edited my post to User and substituted the word jerk for the one I used. I never should have used it, but that guy really irritates me. I don't think he has agreed with one thing I've posted since I've been here. I had a similar joust with someone on another board but he left for elsewhere. I just hope User realizes I have no use for him and puts me on ignore.

[Station 13]

Okay, this is ridiculous. Can't even given Atchison a minor league contract?

 

That would have to be agree on both side. Atchison would be Plan C or D on the Red Sox 'deep' bullpen.

[Palodios]

The point Palodios that escaped User and might have escaped you is that Anderson was still talked about as a solid prospect and was at Pawtucket flailing away and falling fast as you say. Rizzo was on the rise and no doubt would have supplanted him had the RedSox not traded him. The problem was the Red Sox brass miserably overrated a player that even posters on the various and sundry boards knew was a rhinestone.

 

If the Red Sox talked about Lars as a legitimate prospect at the time, it was in a way to paint a nice picture of him before trying to trade him. He had an awful year in 2009 that showed his prospect stock completely plummet. It also started to become apparent that his raw power wasn't translating into power numbers at the plate.

 

This was all common knowledge at the time, and if you look back at the discussions at Talksox from 2009-2010, they would reflect that.

[Palodios]

That would have to be agree on both side. Atchison would be Plan C or D on the Red Sox 'deep' bullpen.

 

Atchison has always been a plan C or D on the Red Sox, but he's always found himself with plenty of playing time. Its not like he went to the Angels or a franchise with any playoff hopes.

[Station 13]

Atchison has always been a plan C or D on the Red Sox, but he's always found himself with plenty of playing time. Its not like he went to the Angels or a franchise with any playoff hopes.

 

But on the Mets, he would have a greater chance to make the major team. It was what I was alluding to by saying he is their C / D depth.

[Dojji]

The bloom was definitely off the rose for Anderson by the time of the Gonzo trade.

 

And I never said 20X all star. That's just something you tacked on because I wasn't anxious to sign Mark Teixeira and the presence of Anderson, then a top prospect, featured in my argument of why.

[Dojji]

Okay, this is ridiculous. Can't even given Atchison a minor league contract?

 

This is Atchison doing what's best for Atchison. The payday for minor league deals lies in the chance to crack the roster. I don't think he liked his chances of cracking the roster here, so he went to another team where he liked his chances more.

[User Name]

The point Palodios that escaped User and might have escaped you is that Anderson was still talked about as a solid prospect and was at Pawtucket flailing away and falling fast as you say. Rizzo was on the rise and no doubt would have supplanted him had the RedSox not traded him. The problem was the Red Sox brass miserably overrated a player that even posters on the various and sundry boards knew was a rhinestone. The very fact that Lars himself said baseball was only ONE of his many interests had to be a red flag to anyone who heard that. When you are a young 20-21 year old if baseball is not your first and foremost passion you're not going to make it no matter what kind of ability you have. Anderson didn't really have the ability either and he still doesn't, and for that reason the Red Sox would be dumb to even consider resigning him.

 

I edited my post to User and substituted the word jerk for the one I used. I never should have used it, but that guy really irritates me. I don't think he has agreed with one thing I've posted since I've been here. I had a similar joust with someone on another board but he left for elsewhere. I just hope User realizes I have no use for him and puts me on ignore.

 

That's because you're usually either wrong, or spouting insults to other posters/players/front office or annoying hyperbole. This is an example of you being plain wrong and refusing to admit it. The initial point you made was that they traded Rizzo instead of Anderson because they valued Anderson more, and this is wrong, as pretty much everyone has told you. At the time of the trade (which is the only time relevant to this discussion) Rizzo was a top-100 prospect, and Anderson had pretty much washed out.

 

And no, i won't put you on ignore. I will keep calling you out on your ******** every chance i get.

[User Name]

Atchison has always been a plan C or D on the Red Sox, but he's always found himself with plenty of playing time. Its not like he went to the Angels or a franchise with any playoff hopes.

 

Compare bullpen depth between the Red Sox and Mets, also compare division and stadiums. If you were going to sign with a team based on your chance to: A) Make the Majors, B ) Post good numbers, where would you go?

[Palodios]

Compare bullpen depth between the Red Sox and Mets, also compare division and stadiums. If you were going to sign with a team based on your chance to: A) Make the Majors, B ) Post good numbers, where would you go?

 

Generally 37 year old players are less concerned about their careers, and more about stability and their family. Looking at it realistically, there are currently 8 major league caliber relievers who will be fighting for 7 spots.

 

Bailey, Lackey and Buchholz will probably get hurt or become ineffective early on in the season, and be replaced by Morales, Aceves, and the pitcher who was moved to the minors. That leaves two open spots for relievers.

 

Athicson would have to compete with De la Rosa, Webster, Bard, Wilson, and Mortensen for those spots, but not all of them will be relievers, and more players could get injured

[a700hitter]

And no, i won't put you on ignore. I will keep calling you out on your ******** every chance i get.

How about just discussing sports in a civil manner without this mentality^

[NativeBostonian]

I don't get why he would have been so far down on the Red Sox bullpen depth chart. He was one of the best bullpen guys that they had last year. This is just stupid.

[User Name]

How about just discussing sports in a civil manner without this mentality^

 

I would take this seriously if you actually, for once, told one of "your guys" to back off instead of the person he's arguing with.

[Palodios]

I don't get why he would have been so far down on the Red Sox bullpen depth chart. He was one of the best bullpen guys that they had last year. This is just stupid.

 

That's how it goes with 37 year old journeymen relief pitchers with injury concerns. I'm surprised that he couldn't find a major league job, or atleast a minor league job with a contender.

[User Name]

Generally 37 year old players are less concerned about their careers, and more about stability and their family. Looking at it realistically, there are currently 8 major league caliber relievers who will be fighting for 7 spots.

 

Bailey, Lackey and Buchholz will probably get hurt or become ineffective early on in the season, and be replaced by Morales, Aceves, and the pitcher who was moved to the minors. That leaves two open spots for relievers.

 

Athicson would have to compete with De la Rosa, Webster, Bard, Wilson, and Mortensen for those spots, but not all of them will be relievers, and more players could get injured

 

What Major Leaguers and people in general are usually concerned about is money. The best chance of making money for Atchinson is out of Boston.

 

On the other hand, i just don't see the reason for complaining because they didn't sign Atchison to a MiLB deal when, as you stated above, they have plenty of options. Even if Morales and Aceves have to go into the rotation at the same time, they have plenty of minor league guys who can come up and contribute.

[User Name]

I don't get why he would have been so far down on the Red Sox bullpen depth chart. He was one of the best bullpen guys that they had last year. This is just stupid.

 

He couldn't find a Major League job for a reason. You need to look deeper than the superficial numbers. Atchison's already fringe stuff is diminishing as he ages, and he's not a high-leverage type of reliever.

[NativeBostonian]

That's how it goes with 37 year old journeymen relief pitchers with injury concerns. I'm surprised that he couldn't find a major league job, or atleast a minor league job with a contender.

 

You think he would have. He had, if I am correct, a 1.58 ERA.

[Palodios]

He couldn't find a Major League job for a reason. You need to look deeper than the superficial numbers. Atchison's already fringe stuff is diminishing as he ages, and he's not a high-leverage type of reliever.

 

I'm just surprised that he took a minor league job for a crappy team. Is there really no one out there willing to give a 500k flier on a guy coming off a great season, and has been pretty solid over the last three years with a 3.18 ERA/ 1.16 WHIP? That's a pretty good line for a reliever who would be 7th or 8th on your depth chart.

[User Name]

I'm just surprised that he took a minor league job for a crappy team. Is there really no one out there willing to give a 500k flier on a guy coming off a great season, and has been pretty solid over the last three years with a 3.18 ERA/ 1.16 WHIP? That's a pretty good line for a reliever who would be 7th or 8th on your depth chart.

 

There's a reason for that IMO. As great as he looks in low-leverage situations, teams are probably weary of his lack of stuff and advancing age. If you look a bit deeper, you'll also notice some of his advanced stats aren't pretty: A .261 BABIP, 85% strand rate, and 3.42 xFIP.

[a700hitter]

I would take this seriously if you actually, for once, told one of "your guys" to back off instead of the person he's arguing with.

I don't have "guys". We're all here together. Fred and I disagree on very fundamental things. He's for bringing up the kids and developing them. That is not a position that I have ever taken. We disagree on a lot, but we just don't attack each other over it. Fred bites back if attacked. He doesn't attack first. The calling out mentality results in retaliation and unpleasantness. It makes for lousy discussion.

[Annoyed]

You guys are idiots. I feel like I'm listening in on Congress. Nothing's getting discussed because you're too busy airing out your personal issues with each other and the baseball issues get lost in the squabbling. The last two pages of comments are completely "he started it!" bickering like I deal with teaching my middle school classes. I am now more familiar with the fact that Fred and User never get along than I am anything related to baseball. You have successfully defeated the purpose of this thread. Do with it what you wish, it's all yours now.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

You're irrelevant because you never post. Keep lurking and shut the f*** up.

[Annoyed]

This is my first post 'cause I just started reading, and am immediately stopping because this isn't even about baseball. This is about arguing to see if you can convince anyone you're right. But guess what, when that's everyone's goal, it'll never happen. So keep grinding your axes against each others' and waste each others' time. I'm going to move on to a forum that talks about what it's supposed to. Get a life beyond the keyboard, losers.

[a700hitter]

His point is not completely without merit. There is some good advice in there.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

All of talksox is going to miss you, please don't leave!

[Palodios]

This is my first post 'cause I just started reading, and am immediately stopping because this isn't even about baseball. This is about arguing to see if you can convince anyone you're right. But guess what, when that's everyone's goal, it'll never happen. So keep grinding your axes against each others' and waste each others' time. I'm going to move on to a forum that talks about what it's supposed to. Get a life beyond the keyboard, losers.

 

You'll find that if you make intelligent posts, and respect others here, you will receive respect in turn. I have been very active in the forums for a few years, and while there are a handful of disagreements, I very much enjoy the community here. When the mods get back from offseason-vacation some of these disagreements will settle down.

[Annoyed]

No, I know it will not, because I am clearly not cut out for the intelligible, substantive debate that exists here. I feel the need to point out the sarcasm in that last statement due to the low-level thinking that is commonly expressed on these pages. This is a text versions of monkeys hurling their own feces at each other. No it will not miss me, nor will I it. Keep fighting the good fight.

[Palodios]

There's a reason for that IMO. As great as he looks in low-leverage situations, teams are probably weary of his lack of stuff and advancing age. If you look a bit deeper, you'll also notice some of his advanced stats aren't pretty: A .261 BABIP, 85% strand rate, and 3.42 xFIP.

 

If it weren't for advanced statistics, a guy coming off a season with an ERA in low 1.00s would be getting a closer/setup job this year. I just figured that those factors would push him to a middle rotation role.

 

Remember back in 2010, when the Red Sox had two elite relievers, Scott Atchison, and a pile of garbage behind? That trade deadline, I looked over the list of relievers with ERAs between 3.00 and 4.00, and had trouble finding any options that wouldn't cost insane money or prospects.

 

As a gritty relief option who threw multiple innings 12 times last year, I believed he deserved better.