Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[BSN07]

Tender deadline tonight at 11:59 pm.

 

Would not be surprised at all to see the Sox acquire Jurrjens.

 

I was thinking the same. He's got good stuff, young, does have a bit of an injury history. But he's being non tendered for a reason. I would like to see the Sox get him.

[User Name]

I was thinking the same. He's got good stuff, young, does have a bit of an injury history. But he's being non tendered for a reason. I would like to see the Sox get him.

 

Does he now? Define good stuff in this instance.

[BSN07]

Does he now? Define good stuff in this instance.

 

Low to mid 90's FB and a good change up. The guy had some success in the not so distant past. 150 IP of 2.96 ERA ball, '09 215 IP 2.60 ERA. I mean you have to have decent "stuff" to manage that right? Maybe instead I should have said he has a "decent arsenal" instead of stuff?

 

I mean as non tendered guys go, he seems like one that has some measurable upside.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Angels trade Walden for Tommy Hanson.

[a700hitter]

Tickets go on sale tomorrow at 10 am. The interest in the team is at a 50 year low. The ticket lines should be very short.

[example1]

Do you really think it is at a 50 year low? That seems like a statement that warrants some evidence.

[a700hitter]

Do you really think it is at a 50 year low? That seems like a statement that warrants some evidence.

A 46 year low?

[seabeachfred]

I'm thinking LaRoche is at first, Salty is the starting catcher, Napoli goes back to Texas.

 

RS84--- it might happen that way but IMO this would not be good for us. It would make us too left handed playing our home games in a park that's tailor made for RH batters. That, plus with all the good LH pitchers in the AL East we would be more vulnerable than ever. We need RH hitters.

[seabeachfred]

Napoli and Swisher are better fits on the Red Sox because of ther versatility and RHH ability. So I'm fine with an extra year for them. I don't see Laroche as a good fit and don't see any reason to offer him more then one year. Which probably doesn't get him, but I'd rather seem some sort of Gomez/Sands platoon instead of Laroche. I don't dislike the guy, I just don't like the fit.

 

Totally in sinc with that BSN. I already told RS84 that LaRoche with us and not Napoli would make us too lefthanded. Mike could play first, catch and occasionally DH while Swisher could play the OF and occasionally lB. More RH hitting for our ballpark and more of a challenge to all the LH pitchers in the AL East.

 

I just don't like Gomez in any part of our team. Terrible defensively, not the sharpest mental tool in the shed and a career minor leaguer. Sands? A possibiity in the OF or first.

[seabeachfred]

Boston has made it 110% clear that Napoli is their #1 target, and everyone else is #1B.

 

Which is how it should be. Napoli is a very good player. The Sox will come down with him.

 

And now that Martin is gone, the Sox have a much more valuable trade chip in Salty, who will be a 20-25 HR catcher at a very reasonable cost.

 

Yet when the Red Sox had their talk with Napoli earlier this week they did NOT offer him a contract, not even a hint of one. Once again LL is playing games and risking something else blowing up in his miserable face. I haven't liked the way things have been going since then. LL and Henry have the ability to screw things up in ways hard to describe. Notice I haven't mentioned Cherington. After Larry's bloviating with the press and media the past few days it has dawned on me that Ben is nothing more than Fredo, an empty suit.

[jung]

We just got rid of one LH 1st baseman that was playing everyday so we should not be worse of with another one.

[seabeachfred]

It does matter whether Sanchez or Grienke...they don't have 5 guys in the rotation....they only have four!!!! and unfortunately just any old starter won't do. They already have the any old starter role filled by Felix who by the way people here want to toss around as trade bait so maybe they actually have two holes in the rotation. Unless they intend setting the clock back forty years they need at least one more starter of some stature greater than 5...probably greater than 4 cause Lackey is probably that guy.

 

Even if they had five guys unless the mystery guest is some stud...(highly highly doubtful), the most pressing concern on this team would still be starting pitching.

 

It never ceases to amaze me....how little Fenway's fans value pitching. Now apparently we have gotten to the point where the Sox don't even have 5 rotation guys, they have three question marks and a solid #5...So, they don't even have A ROTATION yet and the #1 target is Mr swing man catcher /1st basemen. This after a season where their starting pitching totally blew apart. The Sox blew up the lineup by virtue of trade....the rotation blew itself up.

 

Only in Boston.

 

Jung---I think in this case you might be underestimating the Red Sox fandom. I would bet they ALL could tell you that in 2007 the Red Sox won the World Series, and that 95% of them can tell you that the team led the American League in pitching. The problem from where I sit is that there aren't that many game changing pitchers out there in FA. The Phillies and Giants made sure their top potential FA pitchers were extended, and you know that the team is not going to get into a bidding war for either Greinke or Sanchez.

 

I'll take a page out of EX1's book and say that the front office is counting heavily on Lester and Buchholz coming back strong (and healthy) and that Doubrant and Lackey surprise all of us while we focus on a couple of inning eaters, No. 3 and 4 types in FA or in trades. I think we all know you win first of all with solid starting pitching. We just have to hope somehow we can get that again.

[example1]

A 46 year low?

 

The evidence?

 

What does interest correlate with? There's a whole bunch of moving variables, but attendance, income, TV ratings, etc., might all be decent measures.

 

Given that we appear to be in an era where the Sox are remarkably popular and where sports generally are very popular (especially in the Boston area) they might be relatively lower than they have been in the past 15 years or so, but I have a hard time believing that this is the lowest fan interest since 1966.

[a700hitter]

The evidence?

 

What does interest correlate with? There's a whole bunch of moving variables, but attendance, income, TV ratings, etc., might all be decent measures.

 

Given that we appear to be in an era where the Sox are remarkably popular and where sports generally are very popular (especially in the Boston area) they might be relatively lower than they have been in the past 15 years or so, but I have a hard time believing that this is the lowest fan interest since 1966.

It's amazing how you always seize on irrelevant portions of a statement or argument.

[example1]

I'll take a page out of EX1's book and say that the front office is counting heavily on Lester and Buchholz coming back strong (and healthy) and that Doubrant and Lackey surprise all of us while we focus on a couple of inning eaters, No. 3 and 4 types in FA or in trades. I think we all know you win first of all with solid starting pitching. We just have to hope somehow we can get that again.

 

 

I'm just going to say it. This is a bridge year. It is supposed to be a bridge year. The Sox FO might be counting heavily on Lester and Buchholz to come back strong, etc., but to some degree it doesn't really matter. In 2010 Theo was absolutely slammed for saying it was going to be a bridge year, while trying to remain competitive. The reality is he was right. It should have been a bridge year then and now we are getting one.

 

The media (and many fans) recoil at the idea of a bridge year, but they are, like forest fires in nature, necessary to replenish and retool a franchise. I think the FO has realized it is time to stop letting the media spur them to action. The fans will be back in 2014 and will still pay attention in 2013. It's not taking the fans for granted to try to restock. It is putting the resources where they need to go in order to put the best product on the field from 2014-forward.

[example1]

It's amazing how you always seize on irrelevant portions of a statement or argument.

 

So you have no data to back up your claim? Okay, I see, you were just making stuff up. Sorry, I got confused.

 

[a700hitter]

I'm just going to say it. This is a bridge year. It is supposed to be a bridge year. The Sox FO might be counting heavily on Lester and Buchholz to come back strong, etc., but to some degree it doesn't really matter. In 2010 Theo was absolutely slammed for saying it was going to be a bridge year, while trying to remain competitive. The reality is he was right. It should have been a bridge year then and now we are getting one.

 

The media (and many fans) recoil at the idea of a bridge year, but they are, like forest fires in nature, necessary to replenish and retool a franchise. I think the FO has realized it is time to stop letting the media spur them to action. The fans will be back in 2014 and will still pay attention in 2013. It's not taking the fans for granted to try to restock. It is putting the resources where they need to go in order to put the best product on the field from 2014-forward.

What kind of Bridge are we talking about-- a last place bridge, and .500 bridge? Talk of a Bridge Year causes me a problem, because without saying more, we don't know where the bridge is headed or the timetable for completion. At this point, it is just a term to provide a convenient excuse for failure in the off season and the regular season. If this will be a bridge year because the FO will eschew overpriced veterans in favor of building a young core for the future, most people could understand and support that. That would probably also involve sending some current veterans away in trades for prospects. Most people could probably support that too. A lot of people liked the Lester for Myers idea. However, we are not seeing any building for the short term or the long term. We are seeing a lot of nothing. That doesn't help today or the future. If I am going to believe this is a bridge year, I have got to see some activity, some building towards that purpose. Doing nothing would not be a bridge year. It would be a throw away year.

[jung]

the problem with Lester for Myers is how do you get that pitcher or like kind back at anything like a reasonable price. Lester is only 28. If you want to do a much older Lester for a Myers that might work. But he is only 28 this year....29 next year. How do you replace that easily? Rebuilding and giving up 28 year old pitchers does not make much sense to me. You want to keep the 28 year old pitcher whether you are rebuilding or not especially when you have so little pitching to begin with.

[a700hitter]

So you have no data to back up your claim? Okay, I see, you were just making stuff up. Sorry, I got confused.

 

Not at all. Interest in the team is very low right now. Did you check in on game threads in late August and September. Even the looney Sox fans weren't interested. Whether it is the lowest interest in 50, 40, 30 or 10 years is really irrelevant. What is relevant is that interest in the Sox is not high right now and tickets go on sale tomorrow. It will be interesting to see how the sales do? You like to argue irrelevant non-foundational statements, and I have no interest in finding data to support something irrelevant.

 

BTW, don't you live in Seattle or some other far away place? So, how could you gauge interest in the team in Boston? It's low. No one talks about them and no one has anything good to say about them. It's been a really long time where I have seen such disinterest in the team. I think it will be reflected in the advanced ticket sales until they make some moves.

 

As for making things up, I read your "Bridge Year" post. What do you have to support that claim-- any stories, FO interviews or statements, or is it just your gut feeling based on nothing but your own projected feelings? ;)At least my opinion is based on my interaction with other Boston fans (friends, family and co-workers) in Boston and other observations during my frequent travels to Boston.

[example1]

What kind of Bridge are we talking about-- a last place bridge, and .500 bridge? Talk of a Bridge Year causes me a problem, because without saying more, we don't know where the bridge is headed or the timetable for completion. At this point, it is just a term to provide a convenient excuse for failure in the off season and the regular season. If this will be a bridge year because the FO will eschew overpriced veterans in favor of building a young core for the future, most people could understand and support that. That would probably also involve sending some current veterans away in trades for prospects. Most people could probably support that too. A lot of people liked the Lester for Myers idea. However, we are not seeing any building for the short term or the long term. We are seeing a lot of nothing. That doesn't help today or the future. If I am going to believe this is a bridge year, I have got to see some activity, some building towards that purpose. Doing nothing would not be a bridge year. It would be a throw away year.

 

A bridge year is literally nothing more than filling your roster with team friendly, short-term deals, which allow you to have the maximum payroll flexibility at the time when all the young players are ready to come up and join the club. Those kinds of deals are best found after the market has sorted itself out, not when players are out to maximize their value.

[redsoxfan3]

Sources saying we are going to tender Aceves and non-tender Sweeney and Atchison. Sweeney makes sense, but not so much with Atchison. Although, we could still resign him as a FA.

[a700hitter]

A bridge year is literally nothing more than filling your roster with team friendly, short-term deals, which allow you to have the maximum payroll flexibility at the time when all the young players are ready to come up and join the club. Those kinds of deals are best found after the market has sorted itself out, not when players are out to maximize their value.

Really lousy answer. I didn't ask you what a Bridge Year is. I asked what the bridge will look like. Who are all the young talented guys that we are waiting for and when will they arrive? I am extremely interested in any young pitchers who can hold down a rotation spot in 2014. What kind of team will the Sox be in this bridge year? At least you acknowledge that some moves need to be made in a bridge year, or do you want to back away from that? By team friendly, short term deals do you mean moves like the ones made last year for Aaron Cook, Ohlendorf and Carlos Silva?

[example1]

Not at all. Interest in the team is very low right now. Did you check in on game threads in late August and September. Even the looney Sox fans weren't interested. Whether it is the lowest interest in 50, 40, 30 or 10 years is really irrelevant. What is relevant is that interest in the Sox is not high right now and tickets go on sale tomorrow. It will be interesting to see how the sales do? You like to argue irrelevant non-foundational statements, and I have no interest in finding data to support something irrelevant.

 

BTW, don't you live in Seattle or some other far away place? So, how could you gauge interest in the team in Boston? It's low. No one talks about them and no one has anything good to say about them. It's been a really long time where I have seen such disinterest in the team. I think it will be reflected in the advanced ticket sales until they make some moves.

 

As for making things up, I read your "Bridge Year" post. What do you have to support that claim-- any stories, FO interviews or statements, or is it just your gut feeling based on nothing but your own projected feelings? ;)At least my opinion is based on my interaction with other Boston fans (friends, family and co-workers) in Boston and other observations during my frequent travels to Boston.

 

No need to get defensive. Your statement was a complete fabrication, you've acknowledged it. No need to go on the war path. I acknowledge fan interest is at a relative low, I just don't see the need to by hyperbolic about it.

 

I was simply curious if you actually had information that would imply the Sox were worse off than they have been in 60 years in the eyes of fans.

[a700hitter]

No need to get defensive. Your statement was a complete fabrication, you've acknowledged it. No need to go on the war path. I acknowledge fan interest is at a relative low, I just don't see the need to by hyperbolic about it.

 

I was simply curious if you actually had information that would imply the Sox were worse off than they have been in 60 years in the eyes of fans.

So, you were arguing to just to argue. I wasn't getting defensive, just pointing out your very ineffective technique of arguing irrelevancies and picking nits. I was just trying to help you communicate better. I am sorry if you took it the wrong way.

[a700hitter]

I was simply curious if you actually had information that would imply the Sox were worse off than they have been in 60 years in the eyes of fans.

BTW, I said 50 years, not 60 years. If you are going to pick nits, at least be accurate when you do so.

[example1]

Really lousy answer. I didn't ask you what a Bridge Year is. I asked what the bridge will look like. Who are all the young talented guys that we are waiting for and when will they arrive? I am extremely interested in any young pitchers who can hold down a rotation spot in 2014. What kind of team will the Sox be in this bridge year? At least you acknowledge that some moves need to be made in a bridge year, or do you want to back away from that? By team friendly, short term deals do you mean moves like the ones made last year for Aaron Cook, Ohlendorf and Carlos Silva?

 

Well, I think it was implied that this might be what a bridge year looks like. Not much action early in the offseason, waiting to find the crumbs left over when the vultures desperate to compete now have overpaid for guys like Anibel Sanchez. Not making moves believing that it is all about winning in 2013. I definitely think that trading veterans for prospects would represent it, though we haven't seen that yet (I'm hoping we do though) :dunno:

 

High upside young talent they are waiting for (estimated year):

 

Jackie Bradley Jr (CF) (2014)

Rubby De La Rosa (SP-RP)(2013)

Allen Webster (SP) (2013-2014)

Bryce Brentz (COF) (2013-2014)

Xander Bogaerts (SS/3B ) 2014

Matt Barnes (SP) (2014)

 

As for team friendly deals, I would say that the signing of Kuroda last year (NYY) and Edwin Jackson (WAS), along with the Sox signing of Beltre in recent years are examples of the types of moves they could make. They didn't make them last year because they were literally counting every last 100k due to tax threshold concerns. They won't have those concerns this year.

 

I also think moves like Swisher and/or Napoli could be good bridge year signings because they will still be viable players in 2 seasons, won't be superstar contracts, and are good clubhouse presences. They will contribute next year at the level of their likely contracts. Signing Josh Hamilton or Zack Greinke would not be an example of that, IMO.

[jung]

I am a bit surprised that Sox Management did not demand some sort of move that would help early ticket sales. Seems to me the Sox are going to lose some sales momentum that you just don't get back. People end up doing something else with their money. It does not matter that you eventually do something...the damage is done by then at least as far as the gate is concerned.

 

Right now you have to be buying tickets on faith hoping that you are not buying tickets to watch the Sox get kicked from one foul pole to the other one.

[example1]

BTW, I said 50 years, not 60 years. If you are going to pick nits, at least be accurate when you do so.

 

Why did you say a 70 year low? Geez, over state things much? Just kidding. Sorry, I should get my hyperbole right.

[a700hitter]

Well, I think it was implied that this might be what a bridge year looks like. Not much action early in the offseason, waiting to find the crumbs left over when the vultures desperate to compete now have overpaid for guys like Anibel Sanchez. Not making moves believing that it is all about winning in 2013. I definitely think that trading veterans for prospects would represent it, though we haven't seen that yet (I'm hoping we do though) :dunno:

 

High upside young talent they are waiting for (estimated year):

 

Jackie Bradley Jr (CF) (2014)

Rubby De La Rosa (SP-RP)(2013)

Allen Webster (SP) (2013-2014)

Bryce Brentz (COF) (2013-2014)

Xander Bogaerts (SS/3B ) 2014

Matt Barnes (SP) (2014)

 

As for team friendly deals, I would say that the signing of Kuroda last year (NYY) and Edwin Jackson (WAS), along with the Sox signing of Beltre in recent years are examples of the types of moves they could make. They didn't make them last year because they were literally counting every last 100k due to tax threshold concerns. They won't have those concerns this year.

 

I also think moves like Swisher and/or Napoli could be good bridge year signings because they will still be viable players in 2 seasons, won't be superstar contracts, and are good clubhouse presences. They will contribute next year at the level of their likely contracts. Signing Josh Hamilton or Zack Greinke would not be an example of that, IMO.

I am underwhelmed by the talent pool of our minor league pitching. Only Barnes intrigues me, and he has to prove that he can dominate at AA before I get excited about him. He'll be turning 23 this June, so his development has not exactly been on a super fast track. The other 2 guys don't spark my interest. DeLarosa is probably a bullpen guy. Webster is probably little better than Zach Stewart. The guy gives up way too many hits in the minors. I don't see him making it with us at all.

[seabeachfred]

I am a bit surprised that Sox Management did not demand some sort of move that would help early ticket sales. Seems to me the Sox are going to lose some sales momentum that you just don't get back. People end up doing something else with their money. It does not matter that you eventually do something...the damage is done by then at least as far as the gate is concerned.

 

Right now you have to be buying tickets on faith hoping that you are not buying tickets to watch the Sox get kicked from one foul pole to the other one.

 

IMO, I have become convinced that the reason for all this ******** and no action whatsoever is that messrs Henry and Lucchino simply do not know what they really want to do, and their inertia has resulted in kicking tires, feigning interest, talking to this guy and that and not doing a frigging thing to get a name on a contract. I could have added "Bunglin' Ben to the group but I'm more convinced than ever that he is nothing more than a non-entity---a penguin in the garden, a polar bear in the park, or a shark in the tree.

 

If you've been reading the running commentary from my pal 700 and friend EX 1 you see that there is some disagreement among them and to me that stems from the fact that they do not know what the tea m is up to any more than you or I or Henry or Larry do. The team is in a state of total confusion with inept and indecisive leadership and that may be why we get battered from foul pole to foul pole next season unless the front office gets their collective heads out of their asses and decides on a course of action----like stopping all the BS and start getting some names on contracts. Another day shot and nothing to show for it while other teams continue to make moves.