Your 2013 Red Sox

[rjortiz]

C - Salty

1b - Loney, Gomez

2b - Pedroia

3b - Middlebrooks

SS - Iglesias

LF - Bogaerts/Kalish

CF - Ellsbury

RF - Ross/ Bradley

DH - Ortiz

 

Yes, I do indeed have Bogaerts in LF. Anything to get this kids bat up here

 

He's not even 20. They can give him at least one more year in the minors. He'll probably force their hand.

 

Bradley isn't setting the world on fire in AA. He's going to start in Pawtucket.

 

Loney has been below replacement level for four years. He's going to be a free agent next year. Just designate him. No use wasting AB's when he should be evaluating prospects. I like the rest of your team, although I'm not sold on Kalish. He needs to start in AAA, or be in a strict platoon. The first three months of the season are critical for him to see what we have in him.

 

I could see the Red Sox signing a few stop gaps to ease the transitions for our prospects. Nava and a lefty masher would be a good cheap option in LF. Reed Johnson would be inexpensive, and he can play all three OF positions.

 

I'm not sold on Gomez, either. He's 27, and a career minor leaguer. He needs to have a big September. I'd like to see what Jerry Sands can do. He's hit well in AAA, and he's only 24. I think the Red Sox will have to go find a 1B outside the organization to fill this hole, eventually. Maybe make a big splash in 2014.

 

Ross is another player that scares me. He makes most of his value on his batting against LHP, but he's pretty mediocre against same handed matchups. How much money is he going to want on the open market? I wouldn't go more than two years for him. Johnny Gomes would cost less. Is this somewhere where we can break Kalish in, too? He could be the LH platoon partner for Gomes in RF. That would leave the lineup looking like:

 

CF: Ellsbury

2B: Pedroia

DH: Ortiz

3B: Middlebrooks

C: Lavarnway

1B: Sands/Gomez/Saltalamacchia

LF: Nava/Reed Johnson

RF: Gomes/Kalish

SS: Iglesis

 

C/1B: Saltalamacchia

INF: Ciraco

OF: Johnson

OF: Gomes

1B/3B: Gomez

 

It's not an elite offensive ball club, but it's solid and cost effective. It bides time for the young players, and when they are ready to come up we can trade our stop gaps for some prospects. If Bradley is performing at a high level in AAA, we could move Ellsbury to solve our 1B solution long term.

[rjortiz]

Couple things.

 

1. Corey Hart is on a pretty team-friendly deal. I'm not sure why the Brewers would want to get rid of him? Am I missing something on this, because I've seen a few people bring up his name.

 

2. I'm not sure how comfortable I would be with Gomez as the full time 1B. He's going to be 28 next year. I just can't expect him to be any good with him getting his first gig at 27. Again, I sign Napoli, but I've beat that drum.

 

3. Bard and Breslow should both be back in the bullpen next year, as well as Alex Wilson, so I think that rounds out your pen.

 

Brewers look like they need to rebuild, and Hart's contract expires after the '13 season. If the Red Sox decided they wanted to go for it in 2013, they could trade for offer a couple B- prospects and get the job done. Brentz and Workman would probably be good enough. Although, I don't think the Red Sox have the bullets in the rotation to make a deep run in 2014.

[Orange Juiced]

Absolutely! Greinke and Shields would be two nice pickups. Who knows what the rays will be doing with the option though

 

Have a look at Shields' baseball-reference page before you decide that he's a guy you want the Sox to go after with a pretty large contract (which is what it'll take to sign him). Last 4 seasons:

 

2009: 4.14 era, 1.33 whip

2010: 5.18 era, 1.46 whip

2011: 2.82 era, 1.04 whip

2012: 4.01 era, 1.29 whip

 

One of these things is not like the others. You'd be betting that this outlier season would actually represent his true ability. I think he's a solid pitcher, one that I wouldn't mind having on the team, but the guy feels better than he really is.

 

Career #s: 3.97 era, 105 era+, 1.24 whip. Not bad, and again, a guy you would want on your team, but not a stud.

[RedSoxNC84]

Have a look at Shields' baseball-reference page before you decide that he's a guy you want the Sox to go after with a pretty large contract (which is what it'll take to sign him). Last 4 seasons:

 

2009: 4.14 era, 1.33 whip

2010: 5.18 era, 1.46 whip

2011: 2.82 era, 1.04 whip

2012: 4.01 era, 1.29 whip

 

One of these things is not like the others. You'd be betting that this outlier season would actually represent his true ability. I think he's a solid pitcher, one that I wouldn't mind having on the team, but the guy feels better than he really is.

 

Career #s: 3.97 era, 105 era+, 1.24 whip. Not bad, and again, a guy you would want on your team, but not a stud.

 

 

 

Shields feels like another Beckett to me. Careers numbers are very similar, Shields also seems to perform better on certain years. He would command too much money also. Pass.

[DocHolliday]

Have a look at Shields' baseball-reference page before you decide that he's a guy you want the Sox to go after with a pretty large contract (which is what it'll take to sign him). Last 4 seasons:

 

2009: 4.14 era, 1.33 whip

2010: 5.18 era, 1.46 whip

2011: 2.82 era, 1.04 whip

2012: 4.01 era, 1.29 whip

 

One of these things is not like the others. You'd be betting that this outlier season would actually represent his true ability. I think he's a solid pitcher, one that I wouldn't mind having on the team, but the guy feels better than he really is.

 

Career #s: 3.97 era, 105 era+, 1.24 whip. Not bad, and again, a guy you would want on your team, but not a stud.

 

It all depends on what he's asking for. If he wants Lackey or Beckett money and years, no thanks. If he's wanting a 3-5 year deal at around $10-12 M a season I'd be willing to consider it.

 

He may not be the true ace we all want, but we won't have to give up any of our top prospects to get him either. If we have the chance to acquire a guy like Felix Hernandez in a trade, I'd forget about signing Shields altogether. But true aces are very hard to come by and will require a large group of prospects to start the conversation.

 

What if, by some chance we acquire a Felix Hernandez type of ace, and he doesn't perform to ace potential here? Then we're back in a similar situation we were with Beckett, albeit with less financial burden.

 

Perhaps our best route could be trading for prospects with ace ceilings, where we wouldn't be risking as much in the way of $ and years. Or acquiring pitchers through trades like today's trade who are close to the majors and have ace potential. Use the FA market to get middle of the road $ pitchers to round out the back of the rotation.

 

Easier said than done of course.

[a700hitter]

He's not even 20. They can give him at least one more year in the minors. He'll probably force their hand.

 

Bradley isn't setting the world on fire in AA. He's going to start in Pawtucket.

 

Loney has been below replacement level for four years. He's going to be a free agent next year. Just designate him. No use wasting AB's when he should be evaluating prospects. I like the rest of your team, although I'm not sold on Kalish. He needs to start in AAA, or be in a strict platoon. The first three months of the season are critical for him to see what we have in him.

 

I could see the Red Sox signing a few stop gaps to ease the transitions for our prospects. Nava and a lefty masher would be a good cheap option in LF. Reed Johnson would be inexpensive, and he can play all three OF positions.

 

I'm not sold on Gomez, either. He's 27, and a career minor leaguer. He needs to have a big September. I'd like to see what Jerry Sands can do. He's hit well in AAA, and he's only 24. I think the Red Sox will have to go find a 1B outside the organization to fill this hole, eventually. Maybe make a big splash in 2014.

 

Ross is another player that scares me. He makes most of his value on his batting against LHP, but he's pretty mediocre against same handed matchups. How much money is he going to want on the open market? I wouldn't go more than two years for him. Johnny Gomes would cost less. Is this somewhere where we can break Kalish in, too? He could be the LH platoon partner for Gomes in RF. That would leave the lineup looking like:

 

CF: Ellsbury

2B: Pedroia

DH: Ortiz

3B: Middlebrooks

C: Lavarnway

1B: Sands/Gomez/Saltalamacchia

LF: Nava/Reed Johnson

RF: Gomes/Kalish

SS: Iglesis

 

C/1B: Saltalamacchia

INF: Ciraco

OF: Johnson

OF: Gomes

1B/3B: Gomez

 

It's not an elite offensive ball club, but it's solid and cost effective. It bides time for the young players, and when they are ready to come up we can trade our stop gaps for some prospects. If Bradley is performing at a high level in AAA, we could move Ellsbury to solve our 1B solution long term.

I hate your OF. I said this after Daniel Nava's first tour with the Sox in 2010. If he ever gets significant playing time in the future, it will mean that we have a pretty bad team. I was right when I made that statement, and it holds true today.

[BoSox92]

New to the forum.. I'll take a swing at this.

 

Starters: Felix Hernandez*, Clay Buchholz, Felix Doubront, John Lackey, Franklin Morales

Bullpen: Andrew Miller, Craig Breslow, Dan Bard, Rubby De La Rosa

Set Up: Alfredo Aceves

Closer: Andrew Bailey

 

Lineup:

CF: Jacoby Ellsbury

2B: Dustin Pedroia

DH: David Ortiz

3B: Will Middlebrooks

1B: Mike Napoli

RF: Cody Ross

C: Jarrod Saltalamacchia

LF: Ryan Sweeney

SS: Pedro Ciriaco

 

IF: Jerry Sands, Chone Figgins

OF: Daniel Nava

 

* Felix Hernandez, Chone Figgins for Jon Lester, Jose Iglesias, Jackie Bradley Jr., Ryan Lavarnway, and a PTBN (most likely an arm). This trade all has to do what we do with Ellsbury. He could go out west with Lester and both will be back "home". But, since this trade went down, I have a funny feeling Boras is ready to feed Jacoby a big contract. I have no problem with that IF Jacoby can get back to his 2011 form. We are going to have to take Figgins' contract to acquire Felix, we did the same with Beckett taking Lowell's contract. I think this trade will help both teams.

 

Not too worried about Lavarnway leaving, we have Salty still here, Blake Swihart in the wings and even Napoli who can give Salty a brake here and there as well. Napoli also here for his bat as well.

 

We still keep Kalish (Not Big on him) and Lin as well. Bogaerts could be up in the majors next year but most likely spend the season in AAA.

 

We might be looking at a veteran SS to play with Ciriaco and help him develop such as a Jason Bartlett or Alex Gonzalez.

[SouthieFanatic]

He's not even 20. They can give him at least one more year in the minors. He'll probably force their hand.

 

Bradley isn't setting the world on fire in AA. He's going to start in Pawtucket.

 

Loney has been below replacement level for four years. He's going to be a free agent next year. Just designate him. No use wasting AB's when he should be evaluating prospects. I like the rest of your team, although I'm not sold on Kalish. He needs to start in AAA, or be in a strict platoon. The first three months of the season are critical for him to see what we have in him.

 

I could see the Red Sox signing a few stop gaps to ease the transitions for our prospects. Nava and a lefty masher would be a good cheap option in LF. Reed Johnson would be inexpensive, and he can play all three OF positions.

 

I'm not sold on Gomez, either. He's 27, and a career minor leaguer. He needs to have a big September. I'd like to see what Jerry Sands can do. He's hit well in AAA, and he's only 24. I think the Red Sox will have to go find a 1B outside the organization to fill this hole, eventually. Maybe make a big splash in 2014.

 

Ross is another player that scares me. He makes most of his value on his batting against LHP, but he's pretty mediocre against same handed matchups. How much money is he going to want on the open market? I wouldn't go more than two years for him. Johnny Gomes would cost less. Is this somewhere where we can break Kalish in, too? He could be the LH platoon partner for Gomes in RF. That would leave the lineup looking like:

 

CF: Ellsbury

2B: Pedroia

DH: Ortiz

3B: Middlebrooks

C: Lavarnway

1B: Sands/Gomez/Saltalamacchia

LF: Nava/Reed Johnson

RF: Gomes/Kalish

SS: Iglesis

 

C/1B: Saltalamacchia

INF: Ciraco

OF: Johnson

OF: Gomes

1B/3B: Gomez

 

It's not an elite offensive ball club, but it's solid and cost effective. It bides time for the young players, and when they are ready to come up we can trade our stop gaps for some prospects. If Bradley is performing at a high level in AAA, we could move Ellsbury to solve our 1B solution long term.

 

When are people like you going to stop looking at a players age to determine when they play in the bigs? He's shown that he has the work ethic along with the raw potential power to be a 30 home run a year guy eventually. I'm sorry that I want to see the kid so soon I guess? He's as confident a prospect as I've ever seen. He doesn't need to be babied and brought up slowly. I dont want him coming up as a 23 year old when we could see him as a 20 year old. The best experience a prospect can get is right in Boston not Portland

[rjortiz]

When are people like you going to stop looking at a players age to determine when they play in the bigs? He's shown that he has the work ethic along with the raw potential power to be a 30 home run a year guy eventually. I'm sorry that I want to see the kid so soon I guess? He's as confident a prospect as I've ever seen. He doesn't need to be babied and brought up slowly. I dont want him coming up as a 23 year old when we could see him as a 20 year old. The best experience a prospect can get is right in Boston not Portland

 

He has 90 AB's at AA. They can give him two months of AB's at Pawtucket or Portland next year.

[SouthieFanatic]

He has 90 AB's at AA. They can give him two months of AB's at Pawtucket or Portland next year.

 

I don't see what 40 more ABs in the minors will do. It's obviously the rebuilding stage right now. If we didn't get rid of all those players I wouldn't even think about starting him next season with Boston. It would make sense for him to mature with Boston as they continue to rebuild

[mvp 78]

BoSox92, nice first post. You should stick around. Not sure that trade would bring back Felix, but the Sox definitely need to focus on finding a dominant #1.

[Behindenemylines]

From what I have read this morning it sounds like the days of 20-25 million dollars a year (long term) contracts are over for the Sox. They have not worked out in Boston. When a guy gets those $$$$ so much is expected of them. An when they can't live up to those expectations the fans and media are all over them. Sounds like BCher will build a team around youth and fill in with players that are financially low risk (Like Ross this year). If that is the plan then the next year or two could be bridge years until the Bradleys, Websters, Barnes, and Bogaerts become the new core.

[SouthieFanatic]

Have a look at Shields' baseball-reference page before you decide that he's a guy you want the Sox to go after with a pretty large contract (which is what it'll take to sign him). Last 4 seasons:

 

2009: 4.14 era, 1.33 whip

2010: 5.18 era, 1.46 whip

2011: 2.82 era, 1.04 whip

2012: 4.01 era, 1.29 whip

 

One of these things is not like the others. You'd be betting that this outlier season would actually represent his true ability. I think he's a solid pitcher, one that I wouldn't mind having on the team, but the guy feels better than he really is.

 

Career #s: 3.97 era, 105 era+, 1.24 whip. Not bad, and again, a guy you would want on your team, but not a stud.

 

I didnt say I was willing to give him 7 or above AAV. I think he'd be a solid pickup for 5/30. Anything more and I wouldn't consider it

[SoxSport]

The team is better off giving all their young prospects a chance than buying any high priced tickets where they have to give up too much. They have 2 or 3 young pitchers now who look like they can be top of rotation guys. They have a kid Iglesias who could be a top defensive SS, plus Lavarnway who could be a top catcher. Plus Kalish in the OF, who needs experience to blossom.

 

And from what I've seen of Valentine lately, they'll need a new manager who has some fresh ideas--and some authority. Valentine looks burned out.

[BoSox92]

BoSox92, nice first post. You should stick around. Not sure that trade would bring back Felix, but the Sox definitely need to focus on finding a dominant #1.

Well, Seattle will demand prospects.

 

I think, when Lester goes out west, in a different division, goes back "home" in a more comfortable environment I think he could be a very dominant pitcher again.

 

Seattle also need guys to come in and play SS and C. Iglesias will start right away in 2013 and so will Lavarnway. Bradley Jr., another very prizing prospect as well could start next year in CF.

 

Were giving Seattle 3 top 10 prospects in our farm system right now along with a pitcher who can get back to his dominant self.

 

And if we throw a guy like Tazawa (Who I think can be a starter, he has the stuff) or a Pimental I think we could pull this off.

 

We gave up four prospects for Beckett and took Lowell's contract as well.. Seattle could very well sign Edwin Jackson or Zach Greinke if Jon Lester is already in that rotation and become a solid team.

[SouthieFanatic]

The team is better off giving all their young prospects a chance than buying any high priced tickets where they have to give up too much. They have 2 or 3 young pitchers now who look like they can be top of rotation guys. They have a kid Iglesias who could be a top defensive SS, plus Lavarnway who could be a top catcher. Plus Kalish in the OF, who needs experience to blossom.

 

And from what I've seen of Valentine lately, they'll need a new manager who has some fresh ideas--and some authority. Valentine looks burned out.

 

Couldn't agree more! Give the kids some experience against the best. I would of had Xander somewhere in the mix of that comment, but I agree completely. I mean we don't build up the farm system to watch them enter as 26 year olds with a good 4-5 years left before they start to decline.

[Elktonnick]

If Dice-K pitches like that in his next few starts,(and that is a big if) I can see the Sox offering him at least a one year deal for short money.

[a700hitter]

If Dice-K pitches like that in his next few starts,(and that is a big if) I can see the Sox offering him at least a one year deal for short money.

And he'll pitch 10 games for us with a 5 ERA. They need to move on.

[jung]

Seems to me that the Sox will already have a fair number of middle of the road pitchers. Not sure they will have room for another one in dice.

[Behindenemylines]

Just say no to Dice-K for 2013. He just isn't consisted enough for me. Remember today he pitched against a Royal team that is out of the playoff picture. I agree it is time to move on. Dice-K don't let the door hit you in the a_ _ on the way out.

[Elktonnick]

No one wishes more never to see Dice-K in a Red Sox uniform again but if he pitches like he did today the rest of the year the Red Sox will offer him a one year deal. Why because that has been Ben's MO to stockpile pitchers.

[DocHolliday]

No one wishes more never to see Dice-K in a Red Sox uniform again but if he pitches like he did today the rest of the year the Red Sox will offer him a one year deal. Why because that has been Ben's MO to stockpile pitchers.

 

Next year this team will most likely have Morales and Doubront in the rotation. Lackey is coming off of Tommy John and Buchholz has had injury issues. What they will need is a consistent innings eater - and they can do a lot better than Dice K with what will be out there.

 

If Boras is still Dice K's agent, he will probably push for another team to sign Dice on a 1 year deal to re establish his value much in the same way he did with Beltre. As a hitter, Beltre went from one of the league's worst hitting parks to one of the best.

 

Dont be surprised to see Dice pitching for Oakland, Seattle, or the Dodgers next season.

[SoxFanForsyth]

This team needs pitching, plain and simple. And there is SP out there to acquire. Have a look at this idea:

 

Here's your 2013 Rotation:

 

1. Cliff Lee: Trade for Cliff Lee, take on $20-22 of his $25mm in annual salary. Do what it takes to obtain the top of the rotation starter. With guys like Henry Owens, Matt Barnes, Rubby De La Rosa, Allen Webster, and Drake Britton (who is having a solid year in AA, posting a 3.66 ERA and a 3.43 ERA in the 2nd half) all coming up over the next few years, you can sacrifice Doubront (trade him) for a true ace. Especially with the newly found payroll flexibility.

 

2. Jon Lester: Under Contract

 

3. Dan Haren: Sign Dan Haren. Give him a pillow contract. He's coming off of a 4.90 ERA, injury ridden season. He won't have his option exercised because the Angels will be going hard for Grienke, and they won't be willing to lose out on him given that they just spent prospects to get him. Go with a 1 year/$15mm deal for him.

 

4. Clay Buchholz: Under Contract

 

5. John Lackey: Sorry fellas, we're stuck with him. He said he was pitching in pain all season last season, so maybe he comes back and turns back into 2010 Lackey. If he can eat 215 IP of 4.40 ERA baseball again, he'd be a welcome sight as your #5 starter.

 

So that eats $35-37mm of your payroll, but it eats it in the right way. You go get Dan Haren and Cliff Lee, and you combine them with Buchholz and Lester as your top 4, rounded out with Lackey chewing up innings as your #5 man, you've got a very solid rotation.

 

As for the lineup. I would go out and sign Nick Swisher to around a 4 year, $54mm ($13.5mm) deal. He's a guy who can play LF or 1B, and he grinds out AB's. Consistently has a high .360's OBP since coming to the AL East.

 

Also go out and sign Napoli to a 4/$48 ($12mm) deal. He's another versatile guy (1B or C) who has a swing like Cody Ross that is absolutely built for Fenway Park. He's not going to give you a ton of average, but he has a career OBP of .360 and he grinds out AB's.

 

Finally, give Cody Ross 3/21, just like Willingham got. That's only a $4mm bump from what he's getting this year, and he's very much worth it.

 

Lineup of:

 

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Ortiz

Napoli

Middlebrooks

Swisher

Ross/Kalish (Platoon, not strictly enforced)

Lavarnway

Iglesias

 

Finally - The bullpen should be solid next season, rounded out with Bard, Bailey, Aceves, Wilson, Breslow, Miller, and Tazawa.

 

Now, I know a lot of you are going to be saying "That puts us exactly in the same spot we were in!!!".

 

Well, no it doesn't. It gives us an elite rotation. It gives us a lineup full of guys who grind out AB's and take walks (outside of Iglesias, who by the way has a higher OBP than Aviles). And all of the deals are 4 years or less (Lee has 3 years with a buyout in his 4th).

 

The total added payroll would be $66.5mm. The annual payroll relief we just got is about $56mm. When you tack on Jenks, DiceK, Youkilis, Padilla, and Aaron Cook, that's an additional $33mm that is off the books. So in total, we're getting $89mm off the books, and only taking on an additional $66.5mm. That leaves $22.5mm for raises and arbitration, which is plenty. And we will go into next season with most of our holes addressed, and the contracts are shorter.

 

Thoughts?

[BornToRun]

Ehhh. That's a lot of money to commit so soon after we freed up all that payroll. I don't want to go near cliff lee. All that money for 3 years of a pitcher just don't jive with me. I honestly hope we don't do anything too big as far as acquisitions go unless it's like a king Felix type thing which is beyond unlikely. I honestly don't really know for sure what direction I want us to go in other than for BC to be smart and not throw money around left and right. I'd rather save up and build for 2014/15 when the kids are ready to make a difference.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Ehhh. That's a lot of money to commit so soon after we freed up all that payroll. I don't want to go near cliff lee. All that money for 3 years of a pitcher just don't jive with me. I honestly hope we don't do anything too big as far as acquisitions go unless it's like a king Felix type thing which is beyond unlikely. I honestly don't really know for sure what direction I want us to go in other than for BC to be smart and not throw money around left and right. I'd rather save up and build for 2014/15 when the kids are ready to make a difference.

 

Well think about what you've got.

 

1. Dan Haren will be off the books in 2014. This will make room for a guy like Barnes, De La Rosa, or Britton.

 

2. Bogaerts can take over for Iglesias in 2014 if he's ready. Nothing keeping him away.

 

3. Bradley can slide into CF when Ellsbury leaves. I'm not too sure that I'm all in on giving Ells a big deal considering the year he's had this year.

 

4. If Ortiz is done after next season, Napoli can slide into the DH/1B/C role, Swisher can slide into the 1B role, and if you want to keep Iglesias at SS, then Bogaerts can become your cornerstone LF.

 

Essentially, all of these deals are short term, and there's ultra flexibility in the deal.

 

Cliff Lee is still an excellent, elite pitcher. I was hesitant on him as well, but his peripherals are actually better this year than they have been in the past, and his velocity is actually up a tick.

[jung]

Whether in favor of pursuing Lee or not, it will be interesting to see what the Sox do in this particular instance.

 

Almost amazingly, the view from both the media and the fan base appears to be decidedly favorable on the trade. Also it appears that folks don't want the Sox to even look like they are going from the frying pan to the fire. Cliff Lee does sort of have that frying pan to fire factor goin' on. I would wonder if the Sox would be reluctant on that score alone.

 

That said while BC sounded so completely befuddled on D&C in the morning, he was making noise like they would look seriously at Hamilton. He stuttered and stammered through it and was trying to back track as fast as he had gotten his head into that particular noose but I have to think that if they are willing to look seriously at Hamilton, they are willing to look at Lee.

[Palodios]

This team needs pitching, plain and simple. And there is SP out there to acquire. Have a look at this idea:

 

Here's your 2013 Rotation:

 

1. Cliff Lee: Trade for Cliff Lee, take on $20-22 of his $25mm in annual salary. Do what it takes to obtain the top of the rotation starter. With guys like Henry Owens, Matt Barnes, Rubby De La Rosa, Allen Webster, and Drake Britton (who is having a solid year in AA, posting a 3.66 ERA and a 3.43 ERA in the 2nd half) all coming up over the next few years, you can sacrifice Doubront (trade him) for a true ace. Especially with the newly found payroll flexibility.

 

Cliff Lee continues to be a terrible idea. He's 34 years old, coming off a decline year, and signed for big money for big years. He's everything that this team did so well to get rid of this week. He's not a 50 million dollar improvement over Doubront. The Phillies aren't willing to just give him away either-- The Dodgers would have taken him at full price. if they have to bite 15 million for him, they'll demand a next-tier prospect like Swihart/Owens. That kind of money/prospects will be far more worthwhile.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Cliff Lee continues to be a terrible idea. He's 34 years old, coming off a decline year, and signed for big money for big years. He's everything that this team did so well to get rid of this week. He's not a 50 million dollar improvement over Doubront. The Phillies aren't willing to just give him away either-- The Dodgers would have taken him at full price. if they have to bite 15 million for him, they'll demand a next-tier prospect like Swihart/Owens. That kind of money/prospects will be far more worthwhile.

 

I would argue that he is easily a $50mm improvement over Doubront. Cliff Lee is one of the elite pitchers of this era.

 

His velocity is consistent with what it has been, actually a tick up. He is still striking out close to 9 per 9 innings and walking 1.4 per 9. That's incredible.

 

He has been a bit more HR prone this year, but that's not due to his stuff.

 

He has shown a massive improvement in the 2nd half. He's got a 3.22 ERA in the 2nd half, and 75 K's to 16 BB's.

 

He's got a 6.24 K/BB ratio. His stuff is absolutely, 100% not diminishing.

 

The question remains - Do you want an ace, or do you want to keep running the rotation we had this year out there? Because the reality is that Lee would be off the books after the 2015 season. Which is likely the same time that any internally developed ace would be able to take over.

 

Plain and simple, this team needs starting pitching. Bad. Really bad. What we've got in terms of SP hasn't worked for the past 3 seasons. Hell, it hasn't worked for the past 4 seasons if you're looking for the last time we won a PS game.

 

Don't you think it's time we tried to get a proven arm, even if it is a guy who is 34?? It's a short, 3 year deal. If you're ever going to take a gamble on a player like this, its when it won't affect you long term.

[Elktonnick]

Cliff Lee continues to be a terrible idea. He's 34 years old, coming off a decline year, and signed for big money for big years. He's everything that this team did so well to get rid of this week. He's not a 50 million dollar improvement over Doubront. The Phillies aren't willing to just give him away either-- The Dodgers would have taken him at full price. if they have to bite 15 million for him, they'll demand a next-tier prospect like Swihart/Owens. That kind of money/prospects will be far more worthwhile.

 

I don't see the sox pursuing big FA starting pitchers unless it a one or two year deal. I think are going to be quite conservative with respect to the FA market.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Whether in favor of pursuing Lee or not, it will be interesting to see what the Sox do in this particular instance.

 

Almost amazingly, the view from both the media and the fan base appears to be decidedly favorable on the trade. Also it appears that folks don't want the Sox to even look like they are going from the frying pan to the fire. Cliff Lee does sort of have that frying pan to fire factor goin' on. I would wonder if the Sox would be reluctant on that score alone.

 

That said while BC sounded so completely befuddled on D&C in the morning, he was making noise like they would look seriously at Hamilton. He stuttered and stammered through it and was trying to back track as fast as he had gotten his head into that particular noose but I have to think that if they are willing to look seriously at Hamilton, they are willing to look at Lee.

 

Yeah I heard him talking about Hamilton. I'm not sure about this deal. I wouldn't be opposed to it if it was like a 5 year/100mm deal because he'd be out by the time he was 36. But I wouldn't go farther than that.

 

That said, he would be a guy that would be a hell of a lot of fun to watch out in LF everyday.

 

Funny, isn't it, that the one guy you'd want to be around in the clubhouse to keep Hamilton's head on straight would be Adrian Gonzalez. And the one guy you'd want to keep out of the clubhouse would be Josh Beckett.