David Ortiz -HOF?

[SCM33]

Eventually' date=' PED users will get in. Otherwise the Hall will be inducting tumbleweeds for the next few decades.[/quote']

 

No, it will turn in to the "Hall of very good".

[ellsburyforMVP]

He has to break two levels that havent been broken to this point. The DH and the PED users. The day Big Mac and Edgar Martinez are in the hall is the day Ortiz has a shot. Until then' date=' he is one of the best one dimensional players of all time[/quote']

 

Ortiz isn't " one dimensional" he is very serviceable at 1st base, even at 36 yrs old.... He has, to a point , been blocked by gold glove 1st basemen... Gonzo, youk etc... I'm not implying that Ortiz would be a gg caliber guy, but I do think it's unfair for to be held out of the hall for not playing in the field everyday.... Hell, most of us have played baseball at one point or another, you could definetly make a case that being a DH is a little harder to get up and swing a bat 3-5 times a gm---- just from not being in the " flow of the gm " ..... Idk, the man has HOF worthy numbes, and had a 3 yr stretch where he was one of ( if not the most ) feared hitters in MLB

[jung]

Can't change the fact that the NL never adopted the DH and that is going to take most of those guys that favor NL ball right out of the equation for HOF voting. You have to get enough votes to get in and you cannot insist that the voters vote based on a particular perspective. Just listen to a panel of these guys...I can just about guarantee you that if you had six on a panel and posed any question you wanted to the six, you would end up with the voting 3-3. Issues that allow voters to stick a check mark on the negative side of the ledger are death for HOF voting. Ortiz has two...the DH thing for NL proponents and the PED thing for guys who are steadfast on that issue.

[User Name]

Ortiz won't make it. No chance.

[jacksonianmarch]

Ortiz isn't " one dimensional" he is very serviceable at 1st base' date=' even at 36 yrs old.... He has, to a point , been blocked by gold glove 1st basemen... Gonzo, youk etc... I'm not implying that Ortiz would be a gg caliber guy, but I do think it's unfair for to be held out of the hall for not playing in the field everyday.... Hell, most of us have played baseball at one point or another, you could definetly make a case that being a DH is a little harder to get up and swing a bat 3-5 times a gm---- just from not being in the " flow of the gm " ..... Idk, the man has HOF worthy numbes, and had a 3 yr stretch where he was one of ( if not the most ) feared hitters in MLB[/quote']

 

It doesnt change the fact that he's been a designated hitter for his whole career. You can dress it up as pretty as you want, he's a one dimensional player, and you love him for it

[SemperFi Sox]

Roids and a DH.

 

Nope

[SoxSport]

Replying to jung's post about the decline of the all-star game:

 

I think the media--TV-- has killed the all-star game. They treat sports strictly as entertainment--not competition.

 

The competition for the media is Ratings--which determine their advertising revenue. So they try to attract a broader audience than hard core fans. That means phoney HR hitting contests using corked balls and bats, and all the rest of the hoopla which detracts from the game.

 

Selig, in my view, made an honest effort at making the game more serious by making the World Series home field dependent on the all-star game outcome. Ill-founded, because he didn't recognize that it's just entertainment these days, while the World Series is serious competition. They don't mix.

[User Name]

What does that have to do with Ortiz making (or not making) the HOF?

[a700hitter]

Yaz was always pretty humble for a superstar. He always thought of himself as just a hardworker who achieved, but I and others here can tell you that he was very talented. This is extremely high praise for Ortiz as Yaz rarely speaks to the press. He withdrew from public life after his retirement to hunting and fishing. He's not just blowing smoke for Ortiz or the organization. He's just not that type of person. I remember him hating DHing at the end of his career.

Yaz: Ortiz is better hitter than I was

 

ESPN.com news services | July 27, 2014

 

Aside from Ted Williams, David Ortiz is the best hitter in Boston Red Sox history, according to Carl Yastrzemski.

 

A Hall of Famer and one of the most revered players in Red Sox history, Yastrzemski recently told the Boston Globe that he believes Ortiz is a better hitter than he was.

 

"I think so, yeah. I would put [Ortiz] ahead of me," Yastrzemski told the Globe. "He had more power than I had."

 

Ortiz's name has been connected with Yastrzemski's this past week after the Dominican slugger passed the Hall of Famer on Major League Baseball's all-time home run list.

 

Yastrzemski spent his entire 23-year career in Boston, helping the Red Sox win two American League pennants. An 18-time All-Star and seven-time Gold Glove-winning left fielder, he also won the Triple Crown and was named MVP in 1967.

 

But despite being Boston's all-time franchise leader in numerous offensive categories, including hits (3,419), runs and RBIs, Yastrzemski put himself behind Ortiz when ranking the best Red Sox hitters.

 

"I would say as a hitter, I would say he's next to Ted [Williams]," Yastrzemski told the Globe.

 

Ortiz was deferential when told about Yastrzemski's comment Sunday.

 

"Yeah, right," he told ESPNBoston.com's Gordon Edes. "I'll tell you one thing: I'm not playing any 23 years."

 

The 38-year-old Ortiz has 455 career home runs, tied with Adam Dunn for 35th-most in MLB history. The nine-time All-Star homered twice against the Toronto Blue Jays on Monday to pass Yastrzemski for 36th place.

 

"He's a Hall of Famer in my eyes," Red Sox first baseman Mike Napoli said of Ortiz.

 

Ortiz's place in history has been the topic of much debate, particularly because he has spent the majority of his career as a designated hitter. But Yastrzemski continued to endorse Ortiz, arguing that being a DH is deceptively difficult.

 

"DH-ing is very difficult, and he seems to have mastered it," Yastrzemski told the paper. "It's not that easy. When I DH-ed my last year, I hated it.

 

"To go to the plate and get yourself mentally prepared, it's not easy to do when you're not in the game. You're watching the game, and then all of a sudden it's like, 'Boom,' you've got to go up there. I give him a lot of credit."

 

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Edited July 28, 2014 by a700hitter

[Spudboy]

This is nice of Yaz to say.

[Bellhorn04]

Yaz was always pretty humble for a superstar. He always thought of himself as just a hardworker who achieved, but I and others here can tell you that he was very talented. This is extremely high praise for Ortiz as Yaz rarely speaks to the press. He withdrew from public life after his retirement to hunting and fishing. He's not just blowing smoke for Ortiz or the organization. He's just not that type of person. I remember him hating DHing at the end of his career.

 

This is great stuff.

[redsoxrules]

If Ortiz hits 500HR, I'd say he's a HOF no doubt.

DH or not, there's very few players with 500 HR, over 1500 RBI and not to mention his 3WS rings

[Palodios]

If Ortiz hits 500HR, I'd say he's a HOF no doubt.

DH or not, there's very few players with 500 HR, over 1500 RBI and not to mention his 3WS rings

 

Adam Dunn has a chance to hit those numbers, minus the rings. But after second glance, Dunn is likely to break the all time strikeout record too.

[Spudboy]

Somehow its hard to envision Dunn as a HOF member.

 

Yeah, he's played a lot of games and swatted a bunch of homers. But his career has been inconsequential.

 

Those that argue that Poopie does not belong in the HOF because he was "just a DH and did not have to play the field" should look at Dunn's play at first base and rethink Hall induction criteria.

[Station 13]

Adam Dunn has a chance to hit those numbers, minus the rings. But after second glance, Dunn is likely to break the all time strikeout record too.

 

Dunn is lucky to last 5 year on the ballot.

[Orange Juiced]

Ortiz will not be in the HOF, for three reasons:

 

(1) No DH has ever made it to the HOF.

 

(2) His numbers, while terrific, will not be overwhelming. There are several players now not in the HOF that put up Ortiz' numbers.

 

(3) He is, like it or not, connected to PEDs.

 

Red Sox HOF? Absolutely. Baseball HOF in Cooperstown? No.

[jd98]

Ortiz will not be in the HOF, for three reasons:

 

(1) No DH has ever made it to the HOF.

 

 

until yesterday

[BigPapi]

Adam Dunn has a chance to hit those numbers, minus the rings. But after second glance, Dunn is likely to break the all time strikeout record too.

 

Not to mention Dunn's career average is almost 50 points lower than papi's at .238. You better have a huge amount of hrs if you are a .238 career hitter in order to make the hall of fame. Also, if you look at best seasons, adam dunn's best season was 2004 when he hit 46 hrs with a .266 average with 102 rbis with a .956 ops. Papi 's best season was either 2007 when he hit 35 hrs with a .332 ba, 117 rbis and a 1.066 ops or 2006 when he hit 54 hrs with 137 rbis and a .287 ba. Both of those seasons are quite a bit better than anyone dunn has ever had.

Edited July 28, 2014 by BigPapi

[Northern Star]

No way Ortiz should be a HOFer. It's supposed to be the hall of the great, not the very good.

[a700hitter]

until yesterday

Great point. The Big Hurt opened that door.

[a700hitter]

No way Ortiz should be a HOFer. It's supposed to be the hall of the great, not the very good.

The guy has been a great hitter for a long time. He is not merely very good. Of he gets to 500 home runs the only question ois whether factors unrelated to his hitting keep him fropm getting inducted.

[Palodios]

9 All-star nominations, 5 top-five MVP nominations and a top-10 mvp nomination. 6 silver sluggers, 3 rings, two RBI titles, a HR title two walk titles, an OBP title.

 

Over the years Ortiz was active, you will only find a handful of his contemporaries who have put up numbers as consistent as his. Pujols, Cabrera, Holliday, Fielder, Guerrero. The list of guys with his level of production at the plate is not very long -- especially in the post-steroid era of drug testing and such.

 

It really just depends on how voters look at the drugs that he may have taken.

[Northern Star]

9 All-star nominations, 5 top-five MVP nominations and a top-10 mvp nomination. 6 silver sluggers, 3 rings, two RBI titles, a HR title two walk titles, an OBP title.

 

.

 

Most of that stuff doesn't get you in the hall. Top 5 in MVP voting? A bunch of silver sluggers? OBP title? Really?? You're reaching now.

[a700hitter]

Most of that stuff doesn't get you in the hall. Top 5 in MVP voting? A bunch of silver sluggers? OBP title? Really?? You're reaching now.

If those things plus 500 HRs and 1,600 RBI don't get you in, what does it take?

[Palodios]

Most of that stuff doesn't get you in the hall. Top 5 in MVP voting? A bunch of silver sluggers? OBP title? Really?? You're reaching now.

 

The OBP and walk titles was meant to show that he's dominated in multiple categories, not that it has any significance as a title in itself. All the guys who have produced similar numbers are HOFers in this period. Why not Oriz?

[redsoxrules]

If those things plus 500 HRs and 1,600 RBI don't get you in, what does it take?

 

Could be 1700 RBI at this rate. He's showing no signs of slowing down

[sk7326]

Papi in the Hall will be fascinating. There is the PED smell around him if the writers want ... they did it with Bagwell, who is a much better player. That will make things complicated. Also, his value is entirely on offense - pure DH's have not had a lot of luck. To wit, comparing him with another great pure DH/non hall of famer:

 

Edgar Martinez: 65.6 fWAR in 2055 plate appearances, 30.7 fWAR in his 5 best seasons. 309 HRs, 1261 RBIs, .405 wOBA, .312/.418/.515

David Ortiz: 42.2 fWAR in 2072 plate appearances, 24.4 fWAR in his 5 best seasons. 456 HRs, 1506 RBIs, .390 wOBA, .285/.379/.546

 

Edgar is an unambiguously better player than Ortiz, and he fell to 25.2% in his 5th year on the ballot. In short, Papi's case is very tough to argue - although the large market and the spectacular TV highlights will help him.

[a700hitter]

If those things plus 500 HRs and 1,600 RBI don't get you in, what does it take?

I am still waiting to learn what the criteria should be.

[sk7326]

9 All-star nominations, 5 top-five MVP nominations and a top-10 mvp nomination. 6 silver sluggers, 3 rings, two RBI titles, a HR title two walk titles, an OBP title.

 

Over the years Ortiz was active, you will only find a handful of his contemporaries who have put up numbers as consistent as his. Pujols, Cabrera, Holliday, Fielder, Guerrero. The list of guys with his level of production at the plate is not very long -- especially in the post-steroid era of drug testing and such.

 

It really just depends on how voters look at the drugs that he may have taken.

 

And him being a pure DH. There are few comps out there, and the one (Edgar Martinez, a much better player) has not had much luck so far.

[Bellhorn04]

And him being a pure DH. There are few comps out there, and the one (Edgar Martinez, a much better player) has not had much luck so far.

 

Ortiz and Martinez have similar averages, but Ortiz's counting numbers are vastly better. And I have to disagree that Martinez was a 'much better player'.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Bellhorn04