Youk to White Sox

[a700hitter]

But 3rd place pitching and 3rd place hitting and you're a pennant contender.

Uh yeah. I think you would be a pretty strong contender.

[Bellhorn04]

This team did a great job building a run differential monster starting around 2002. We started losing our run differential mojo in 2009.

[jacksonianmarch]

right when the pitching went into the shitter

[Bellhorn04]

I don't think it's possible to have a highly successful Red Sox team without a strong offence. You play half your games in Fenway, you have to be able to win some 8-6 games, and to blow away some weaker teams by putting up crooked numbers early.

[a700hitter]

This team did a great job building a run differential monster starting around 2002. We started losing our run differential mojo in 2009.

You could also say that they did a great job of building 93-95 win teams in those years. Wins like run differential is an outcome not a skill.

[a700hitter]

I don't think it's possible to have a highly successful Red Sox team without a strong offence. You play half your games in Fenway' date=' you have to be able to win some 8-6 games, and to blow away some weaker teams by putting up crooked numbers early.[/quote']And the Red Sox have not been very successful with pitching that is in the bottom half either.

[jacksonianmarch]

Youk had another solid day yesterday, going 1 for 4 with 3 walks, an RBI and 2 runs scored. His line with Chicago is an amazing .340/.429/.547 with an OPS of .976. If he continues hitting close to this level, you can bet they will pick up that option

[SoxSport]

Youk had another solid day yesterday' date=' going 1 for 4 with 3 walks, an RBI and 2 runs scored. His line with Chicago is an amazing .340/.429/.547 with an OPS of .976. If he continues hitting close to this level, you can bet they will pick up that option[/quote']

 

Youks doesn't look too good here with this turnaround. Looks like he was dogging it in Boston.

[SoxSport]

I don't think it's possible to have a highly successful Red Sox team without a strong offence. You play half your games in Fenway' date=' you have to be able to win some 8-6 games, and to blow away some weaker teams by putting up crooked numbers early.[/quote']

 

The Red Sox are never successful without good pitching. Never in their history. Against the Yankees, it's always about pitching. The team with the better pitching finishes higher.

 

One year, in 1950, they had 8 .300 hitters in their starting lineup, but still lost to the Yankees, who had Raschi, Reynolds and Lopat as starting pitchers, while the Sox had only Parnell.

[Bellhorn04]

The Red Sox are never successful without good pitching. Never in their history. Against the Yankees, it's always about pitching. The team with the better pitching finishes higher.

 

I have to disagree. From 1999 to 2002 the Red Sox had a better ERA than the Yankees 3 out of the 4 years and finished behind them every year. In 2001, the Yankees had a 4.02 to our 4.15, and finished 13 games ahead of us.

 

It wasn't until 2003, when our offence became a potent force, that we were able to match up with the Yankees.

[jacksonianmarch]

I have to disagree. From 1999 to 2002 the Red Sox had a better ERA than the Yankees 3 out of the 4 years and finished behind them every year. In 2001' date=' the Yankees had a 4.02 to our 4.15, and finished [b']13 games[/b] ahead of us.

 

It wasn't until 2003, when our offence became a potent force, that we were able to match up with the Yankees.

 

Through the glory years, the Yankees had balance. Our offense wasnt first in the league until we got ARod and Sheff. But we'd always be in the top 10. Our starters wouldnt win a ton of Cy Youngs (only one with Roger in 01) but the rotation was typically 4 deep with savvy veterans capable of elevating their game in crunch time. And we had a closer who never wavered and a pen until 2003 that was damn good from long relief to setup man.

[a700hitter]

Youk had another solid day yesterday' date=' going 1 for 4 with 3 walks, an RBI and 2 runs scored. His line with Chicago is an amazing .340/.429/.547 with an OPS of .976. If he continues hitting close to this level, you can bet they will pick up that option[/quote']I'm not surprised at all. We gave him away to a competitor for a busted prospect. Mark my words, he will wreck us in the upcoming series. We had to watch Carlton Fisk wreck us for about 10 years. I didn't understand the urgency to get him out of town if we got nothing in return. Now, we are subjected to Mauro Cement hands Gomez on a daily basis, and last night he took the bat completely out of Ortiz hands at the end of the game. But enough of the arguments that he was blocking the way of WMB and the ridiculous notion that Youk could not sit on the bench. If it was a must to get rid of him, he should have been shipped to the NL. Cherries was too cowardly to get nothing for him so he took a busted prospect and Lillibitch who was going to get cut by the ChiSox anyway.

[VA Sox Fan]

Youks doesn't look too good here with this turnaround. Looks like he was dogging it in Boston.

 

I disagree. I think he was unhappy in Boston and with BV.

[a700hitter]

Oakland had the best pitching in the AL at the break. They are 43-43.

Texas had the best hitting at the break. They are 52-34.

 

Can't we all just agree on the obvious fact that run differential is the key number?

Oakland is 7-1 so far in the second half. They are 1/2 game behind LA and Baltimore for a wild card spot. There are 3 teams and 3 games between the Red Sox and the A's in the wild card standings.

[jacksonianmarch]

Oakland is starting to get offense as well. They are the very definition of pesky.

[wyo-sox]

I disagree. I think he was unhappy in Boston and with BV.

 

You can be unhappy and hit a ball.... if you let your unhappiness get in the way of doing the job you have the ability to do and are paid to do.... that is in fact doging it. imho

[a700hitter]

Originally Posted by a700hitter

Which gives brent about 3 weeks or less with the Sox, cause he'll be the first one cut when CC comes back.

 

You don't know that. If he plays well nothing says that DMac/ the guy who may take his spot won't be the odd man out.

 

I love how I'm seeing sox fans say we're not getting anything for youk as if he isn't a past his prime 33 year old hitting .220.

He was acquired June 24th and released July 16th-- that's 3 weeks and 1 day. I stand corrected.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I was about say that I am dreading you becoming more insufferable now that you were so on the money with this prediction, but then I relaxed because I realized that there is no way for you to be more insufferable about being correct than you already get.

 

 

Better than being insufferable when you're wrong, and not admitting it! You are a wise man.

[a700hitter]

I was about say that I am dreading you becoming more insufferable now that you were so on the money with this prediction, but then I relaxed because I realized that there is no way for you to be more insufferable about being correct than you already get.

 

 

Better than being insufferable when you're wrong, and not admitting it! You are a wise man.

I am cursed with a good memory when it comes to baseball. I have watched so much baseball in 45 years that I have seen scenarios like this play themselves out dozens of times.

[a700hitter]

Oakland is starting to get offense as well. They are the very definition of pesky.

Good pitching helped the A's sweep the yankees in 4 straight games by 1 run. you will not see that from the 2012 Red Sox.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I am cursed with a good memory when it comes to baseball. I have watched so much baseball in 45 years that I have seen scenarios like this play themselves out dozens of times.

 

 

I still have 20 years to go to get to 45, and about 29-30 years before I have 45 years of baseball.

 

I defer to your expertise.

[Scottish Red Sox Fan]

It is so strange seeing Youk in another team's uniform, it just doesn't feel right. I was glad to see the Fenway faithful gave him a standing ovation earlier this week, Youk really deserved that after everything he gave to the Red Sox.

 

I'll always be grateful to Youk for what he did for us. The same way I will always be grateful to Terry Francona.

 

YOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!

[a700hitter]

Haha yeah my bad.

 

$1-2mm from the Youk trade, though I opine that they saved $2mm. $3mm from the Scutaro trade, net of the Ross deal. So $4-5mm.

 

If they spend over $4mm, less than $5mm, it's a push.

It looks like I won this sig bet.

 

You really need to stay away from sig bets.

[a700hitter]

How will we measure if Youk is the reason? That bet makes no sense. They are a competitors. Let's just look to see if Youk has a positive effect on their WAR that exceeds what we got in return. How much does a win cost the Sox... more than $2 million? We can subtract 1 from Youk's WAR to account for the $2 million.

 

Alright. I get the feeling I'm walking into a trap but whatever. I don't care as long as we make the playoffs.

Here's the outcome on this bet:

 

White Sox WAR

Kevin Youkilis 1.1

 

Red Sox WAR

Zach Stewart -0.7

Lillibridge -0.3

$2 million 1.0

Total WAR 0.0

 

I win.

[a700hitter]

Why not give them AGon too? He's only hitting in the .250's and his OBP is about the same as Youk's.

 

I'm praying this is sarcasm.

Funny how it turned out.

[seabeachfred]

Stewart and Lillibridge for Youkilis?? Another one of Cherington's dreadful trades. Look, maybe Kevin needed to go to make room for Middlebrooks at third. I saw and see nothing wrong with that, but even though Youk didn't have a super season he showed enough in the power department that we should have gotten more than these two pieces of excess garbage. Then when you consider we traded Gonzales and got the putrid Loneybaloney to take his place, I think I would have rather had Kevin playing first for us the rest of the year than that Loney bum. Why does it seem that just about every move the Red Sox front office makes blows up in their faces? They simply cannot be that incompetent.

[a700hitter]

Stewart and Lillibridge for Youkilis?? Another one of Cherington's dreadful trades. Look, maybe Kevin needed to go to make room for Middlebrooks at third. I saw and see nothing wrong with that, but even though Youk didn't have a super season he showed enough in the power department that we should have gotten more than these two pieces of excess garbage. Then when you consider we traded Gonzales and got the putrid Loneybaloney to take his place, I think I would have rather had Kevin playing first for us the rest of the year than that Loney bum. Why does it seem that just about every move the Red Sox front office makes blows up in their faces? They simply cannot be that incompetent.

Hey, Fred is back! They called you negative for predicting a second place finish and for saying that Bard was finished when he got demoted. You were way to optimistic.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Stewart and Lillibridge for Youkilis?? Another one of Cherington's dreadful trades. Look, maybe Kevin needed to go to make room for Middlebrooks at third. I saw and see nothing wrong with that, but even though Youk didn't have a super season he showed enough in the power department that we should have gotten more than these two pieces of excess garbage. Then when you consider we traded Gonzales and got the putrid Loneybaloney to take his place, I think I would have rather had Kevin playing first for us the rest of the year than that Loney bum. Why does it seem that just about every move the Red Sox front office makes blows up in their faces? They simply cannot be that incompetent.

 

I still don't think it was a horrible deal. Stewart has been dreadful, but I think he's better than his two starts this season.

 

Regardless, the Sox lost in the trade but they were put in a position where they had to make a deal and take heat for it. V and Youk were just a blow up waiting to happen.

 

You can't judge the FO on a deal like that. And regardless, if you look at their overall work during the 2012 season, I'd say they did a damn good job, ridding themselves of Gonzo, Crawford, AND Beckett, only eating $11mm of their total $272mm in contracts, AND getting two prospects back who project as middle to top of the rotation starters.

 

De La Rosa's FLOOR is as an elite set up man (think - Daniel Bard). And Webster is projected to be a middle of the rotation starter, a Derek Lowe with much higher K potential. Not an elite prospect, but certainly top 100 and a guy who could help the rotation as soon as late 2013, depending on where he starts.

 

The Sox FO absolutely destroyed the Dodgers FO in this deal. I think they're much more competent than the couch GM's here give them credit for.

[jung]

I guess you can credit the FO for providing whatever input resulted in De La Rosa and Webster coming the Sox way. Realistically the deal was conceived by the Dodgers for reasons that have much more to do with PR than anything else...frankly in this case the Dodgers played the role that the Sox typically play, with guys outside of Dodgers Baseball Operations deciding they needed to make this trade as a means of building fan support. Insert the words "maintaining fan support" where I put "building fan support" and the similarities between the role the Sox usually play and the role the Dodgers played are unmistakable.

 

In fact Henry zinged them three times...first by rejecting any overtures until the Dodgers said the magic word "CRAWFORD", second taking the Dodgers down from their initial negotiating position (Sox covering $75M in salary) to their final deal numbers (Sox covering $12M in salary) and third in getting far better prospects than we could have hoped for considering the Dodgers had been moved so far on the Sox salary commitment.

 

Henry handled the major financial commitment pieces personally and moved particular Sox Management and FO personnel including BC around the chess board until the deal was completed. But you have to think that the intelligence that went into De La Rosa and Webster came from Sox Baseball Operations. The insistence on De La Rosa and Webster was Henry's call and Henry's play.

[jung]

I guess you can credit the FO for providing whatever input resulted in De La Rosa and Webster coming the Sox way. Realistically the deal was conceived by the Dodgers for reasons that have much more to do with PR than anything else...frankly in this case the Dodgers played the role that the Sox typically play, with guys outside of Dodgers Baseball Operations deciding they needed to make this trade as a means of building fan support. Insert the words "maintaining fan support" where I put "building fan support" and the similarities between the role the Sox usually play and the role the Dodgers played are unmistakable.

 

In fact Henry zinged them three times...first by rejecting any overtures until the Dodgers said the magic word "CRAWFORD", second taking the Dodgers down from their initial negotiating position (Sox covering $75M in salary) to their final deal numbers (Sox covering $12M in salary) and third in getting far better prospects than we could have hoped for considering the Dodgers had been moved so far on the Sox salary commitment.

 

Henry handled the major financial commitment pieces personally and moved particular Sox Management and FO personnel including BC around the chess board until the deal was completed. But you have to think that the intelligence that went into De La Rosa and Webster came from Sox Baseball Operations. The insistence on De La Rosa and Webster was Henry's call and Henry's play.