So how about Daniel Nava?

[a700hitter]

For the last time.....

 

Nava is not young. He will be 30 in spring training next year. 30!!!!!! Can we PLEASE stop calling him such adjectives as "young" and "prospect"??? James Loney, FWIW is 28 years old.

 

Nava sucks, and always will.

Nava is a minor league talent. He deserves kudos for all the hard work refining his game to the point where he didn't embarrass himself in the majors like a minor league hack. It's unfortunate that he is so short on talent, because the guy has a great heart.

[Elktonnick]

For the last time.....

 

Nava is not young. He will be 30 in spring training next year. 30!!!!!! Can we PLEASE stop calling him such adjectives as "young" and "prospect"??? James Loney, FWIW is 28 years old.

 

Nava sucks, and always will.

 

Nava may not be a starter but he'll play somewhere next year if not in Boston. He may hang on for one or two more years somewhere.

[redsoxfan3]

Nava may not be a starter but he'll play somewhere next year if not in Boston. He may hang on for one or two more years somewhere.

 

He is a 4th OF at best. He is a AAAA player. He is nothing special, but for a team like the Twins or Astros, he is definitely an average 4th OF or below average starter. He might gauge some interest in the trade market this year. I am all for trading him for a younger prospect or having him included in another trade.

[Dojji]

Nava is a minor league talent. He deserves kudos for all the hard work refining his game to the point where he didn't embarrass himself in the majors like a minor league hack. It's unfortunate that he is so short on talent, because the guy has a great heart.

 

It's a pity pitchers eventually figured this guy out. For awhile there he was unstoppable, and I think that was enough to ensure that he breaks into someone's big league roster next year as an interesting bench option and someone to trot out and give a shot at a starting COF position if a starter is down for a week plus.

 

He was a fun little story in an otherwise dismal year.

[SCM33]

It's a pity pitchers eventually figured this guy out. For awhile there he was unstoppable, and I think that was enough to ensure that he breaks into someone's big league roster next year as an interesting bench option and someone to trot out and give a shot at a starting COF position if a starter is down for a week plus.

 

He was a fun little story in an otherwise dismal year.

 

Figured him out? He figured himself out when he fell back down to earth and started playing like the player he really is. Don't give pitchers that much credit, he was never any good to begin with.

 

Unstoppable and Nava should never be used in the same sentence again.

 

He was also fun and a great little story a couple of years ago. They missed the playoffs that year too. Any time a player like Daniel Nava becomes any sort of headline, you are screwed. You are the Houston Astros when you have to find nice little stories about your s***** players.

[rjortiz]

He's a good option to have as AAA depth. I hope we can keep him down there. He has some value hitting RHP.

[Bellhorn04]

Nava ended the year with a .742 OPS and an OPS+100, so in effect he was a perfectly average offensive player. Compared to the average AL outfielder he was just a hair below average. His defensive stats also show him to be just a hair below average. So the stats support him as a viable reserve outfielder.

 

Chin Music, what amuses me about your position that he sucks is that you're in effect saying that the average major league baseball player sucks.

[Elktonnick]

Nava ended the year with a .742 OPS and an OPS+100, so in effect he was a perfectly average offensive player. Compared to the average AL outfielder he was just a hair below average. His defensive stats also show him to be just a hair below average. So the stats support him as a viable reserve outfielder.

 

Chin Music, what amuses me about your position that he sucks is that you're in effect saying that the average major league baseball player sucks.

 

What also makes Nava attractive as a 4th or 5th outfielder is that he is a switch hitter.

[a700hitter]

Nava ended the year with a .742 OPS and an OPS+100, so in effect he was a perfectly average offensive player. Compared to the average AL outfielder he was just a hair below average. His defensive stats also show him to be just a hair below average. So the stats support him as a viable reserve outfielder.

 

Chin Music, what amuses me about your position that he sucks is that you're in effect saying that the average major league baseball player sucks.

He doesn't have enough major league talent to stay at this level on a good team. If he is on our 25 man roster, it will be one tip off that we are not very good again. Even Doji gave up on the guy.

[SCM33]

Nava ended the year with a .742 OPS and an OPS+100, so in effect he was a perfectly average offensive player. Compared to the average AL outfielder he was just a hair below average. His defensive stats also show him to be just a hair below average. So the stats support him as a viable reserve outfielder.

 

Chin Music, what amuses me about your position that he sucks is that you're in effect saying that the average major league baseball player sucks.

 

Those numbers were free falling on a daily basis after a fluke beginning to the year.

 

He sucks.

[Station 13]

Nava at the beginning of the year hits to left field, and the pitchers later pick up on it. He since been jammed and rolling ball to 2B every time. They won't pitch him away with the compact inside out swing he had. He sucks. But he's better than Lin, Podsednik, Sweeney as a 5th OF. He has a decent OBP, so he might be back as a 5th OF.

[Bellhorn04]

Those numbers were free falling on a daily basis after a fluke beginning to the year.

 

He sucks.

 

I guess you didn't notice that the free fall ended in September. In his last 10 starts he had a .894 OPS.

 

Extended hot streaks and cold streaks are common for MLB hitters.

 

Again, you're saying that average sucks. Just admit that.

[a700hitter]

I guess you didn't notice that the free fall ended in September. In his last 10 starts he had a .894 OPS.

 

Extended hot streaks and cold streaks are common for MLB hitters.

 

Again, you're saying that average sucks. Just admit that.

You need to give it up if Doji bailed on the guy.

[Bellhorn04]

You need to give it up if Doji bailed on the guy.

 

Oh, I would have bailed hard if Nava didn't have that little resurgence at the end.

[a700hitter]

Oh, I would have bailed hard if Nava didn't have that little resurgence at the end.

Never believe anything you see in September. It is not reliable. The kid has heart but no tools.

[Bellhorn04]

Never believe anything you see in September. It is not reliable. The kid has heart but no tools.

 

So you agree with Chin Music that the average MLB hitter and fielder sucks.

[a700hitter]

So you agree with Chin Music that the average MLB hitter and fielder sucks.

I don't think that Nava is an average major leaguer. Even if he his batting comes to major league averages, his other tools are well below average. He can't run or throw. Getting onbase is the one major league average tool that he has. The rest of his tools are below major league average. Overall, he is not a major league skill player, so your question has no applicability.

[SCM33]

So you agree with Chin Music that the average MLB hitter and fielder sucks.

 

I didnt say anything about him not being "league average" in OPS and OPS+.

 

I said he sucks. Can't hit, no power, no speed, can't run, can't throw and is SIGNIFICANTLY below average in terms of range factor.

 

Nice job cherry picking 2 stats and applying them to the overall player though.

 

I guess Wily Mo Pena was league average as well, because he could do 1 thing well.

[Bellhorn04]

I didnt say anything about him not being "league average" in OPS and OPS+.

 

I said he sucks. Can't hit, no power, no speed, can't run, can't throw and is SIGNIFICANTLY below average in terms of range factor.

 

Nice job cherry picking 2 stats and applying them to the overall player though.

 

I guess Wily Mo Pena was league average as well, because he could do 1 thing well.

 

This is exaggeration to the point of horseshit. If he's league average in OPS then it's wrong to say he can't hit and has no power. Those things are sort of factored into OPS. He had 6 home runs and 21 doubles in about half a season's AB's.

 

As for his fielding, FanGraphs has him at a -1.5 per 150 games UZR, which is only slightly below average. They give his arm a + rating. He had 5 assists.

[SCM33]

This is exaggeration to the point of horseshit. If he's league average in OPS then it's wrong to say he can't hit and has no power. Those things are sort of factored into OPS. He had 6 home runs and 21 doubles in about half a season's AB's.

 

As for his fielding, FanGraphs has him at a -1.5 per 150 games UZR, which is only slightly below average. They give his arm a + rating. He had 5 assists.

 

You are right. At 30 years old, after spending a career in the minor leagues, we have found a diamond in the rough.

 

He will be in AAA to start next year, regardless of what you think he is.

 

There is a reason why he's amassed a staggering 428 at bats at the age of 30.

 

There are people smarter than you, who can look past an "average" season by a guy who played meaningless games during a 93 loss season.

[Bellhorn04]

There are people smarter than you, who can look past an "average" season by a guy who played meaningless games during a 93 loss season.

 

Nava's OPS before the All-Star break was .815 and after the break was .607. He actually performed better in the games that were more meaningful.

[SCM33]

Nava's OPS before the All-Star break was .815 and after the break was .607. He actually performed better in the games that were more meaningful.

 

....orrrr he fell back to earth, and the .607 is a better indication of the real Daniel Nava.

 

Are we really arguing over Daniel Nava? This team was beyond awful when you have to argue about the worth of a player who shouldn't have even been on the roster.

[Bellhorn04]

....orrrr he fell back to earth, and the .607 is a better indication of the real Daniel Nava.

 

Are we really arguing over Daniel Nava? This team was beyond awful when you have to argue about the worth of a player who shouldn't have even been on the roster.

 

You're right, the team was beyond awful I've been reduced to arguing about small points.

[SCM33]

FWIW, to show you how much the Redsox value Daniel Nava, just to give you an idea.....

 

They used 10 Outfielders before Nava was even on the 40 man roster..........including signing guys off the street and forcing Lars Anderson to play in the OF.

 

Ellsbury

Ross

Sweeney

Posednick

Byrd

Kalish

Mcdonald

Repko

Lin

Anderson

 

Apparently, the Redsox thinks he sucks too.

[SCM33]

You're right, the team was beyond awful I've been reduced to arguing about small points.

 

Thats fine, at least we have something to talk about hahahaha.

[Bellhorn04]

Hey, Valentine thought he was good enough to be a #3 hitter. And good enough to pinch hit right in the middle of an at-bat.

[RedSoxNC84]

Hey, Valentine thought he was good enough to be a #3 hitter. And good enough to pinch hit right in the middle of an at-bat.

 

Or he did that for the same reason he started Dice K the other night, he didn't want a job anymore.

[mvp 78]

I hope Nava gets traded so that we can stop talking about that guy. He's the definition of "replacement player" and not worth overanalyzing.

[Dojji]

It's a classic case of confirmation bias. They went into it saying he sucks, he started out brilliant, faltered, tended down to average, and the conclusion is he sucks.

 

I don't suppose it occurred to any of the geniuses-in-hindsight here that this was functionally Nava's rookie season? And that while physical development is unlikely, he still has a chance to develop his approach through experience? Nava was never going to get by on physical gifts, but he doesn't need to. How far would he really have to progress from where he finished the season to be a worthwhile tweener COF? He'd need to gain exactly 8 points in overall OPS to become a starting caliber COF on a developing team. That's really not that hard to contemplate.

 

People get these ideas stuck in their head and they lose all grasp of reality or sense of perspective. Nava isn't nearly as good as he was during his crazy run, and he isn't nearly as bad as he was during his crazy slump. He actually improved his chances at sticking in the bigs overall this year pretty significantly. Why is that so hard for people to grasp?

 

It's really no that inconcievable that Nava could work out here, especially if he can refine his switch hitting and stay out of the big nosedive slumps. He could even remain a pleasant surprise next year -- UNLESS your demand if corner outfielders is 40 HR's and a middle of the order bat, which Nava could never possibly be, but in that case I'd quite bluntly like to ask you what planet you've been on over the last 5 years because those guys are disappearing from the league. Corner outfield isn't nearly the power position it was 10 years ago when Manny was in his prime.

[Behindenemylines]

If Nova is anything both a depth player at AAA then the FO didn't do enough upgrading to get the Sox back to respectibility. His numbers dropped the more innings he played.