Francona will not attend the 100th birthday at Fenway

[ibot2much]

Were there laws broken.....breaks-in of TF medical and legal files???

 

Or did someone-for whatever reason- pass on information that they witnessed in day-to-day interactions in the locker room.

[DwightFright]

Journalists have been fired, imprisoned, tortured, and murdered for absolutely refusing to disclose anonymous sources of information about stories ranging from the unimportant to the world-changing. Does Francona really think that this guy from the Globe is going to be any different?

 

If a journalist reveals his source, everyone will know about it and no one will give that journalist information anymore.

 

As for the rest of the story, I'm sick of hearing about last season. This is this season, so let's focus on that. Francona is no longer a member of the team and none of the issues of last year (off the field) are currently issues now. (That we know of).

 

If ownership and management of the Sox are really innocent as the source of the damaging info ( Hohler article) re Francona, and motivated to get to the bottom of the report, they could have applied pressure in more subtle ways. They could have made Hohler persona non grata for the Red Sox lockerroom and any interviews. That would have a similar effect on Hohler as giving up his sources - basically he would be finished as a Sox reporter. IIRC the Pats may have done that to Tomasse ( Herald) after his Spygate report that 'someone' ( Matt Walsh ). had a secret walkthru tape of the Rams. The Herald had to transfer him to the Red Sox beat - he was finished as a Pats reporter.

[ORS]

When the guy who told the journalist broke the law? They could at least make a token effort.

What law? Unless the source is a provider governed by HIPAA, I don't think there's legal grounds to root out the source. It's very likely that his use of pain medication was observed and inferences were made from there.

 

This whole thing is a mess. Don't take this to mean that I think being on the right side of the law excuses anyone for anything, but I'm skeptical this is a legitimate claim of foul play.

[a700hitter]

What law? Unless the source is a provider governed by HIPAA, I don't think there's legal grounds to root out the source. It's very likely that his use of pain medication was observed and inferences were made from there.

 

This whole thing is a mess. Don't take this to mean that I think being on the right side of the law excuses anyone for anything, but I'm skeptical this is a legitimate claim of foul play.

My recollection is that Francona said that only the training staff knew about the pain killers.

[ORS]

My recollection is that Francona said that only the training staff knew about the pain killers.

How would he know who saw/knew what? I imagine the clubhouse is a pretty intimate place where privacy is scarce.

[ibot2much]

He was taking pain killers by his own admission.

His marriage was on the rocks.

 

The information got out there...so what?

 

The only question is did those things play into the collapse and the player's loss of respect for TF? If so, then take some responsibility for that. The team had already collapsed when the information got out there.....so stop whinning about the information getting out and take responsibility for the team's collapse.

 

It isn't like anybody was accusing him WRONGLY and UNJUSTLY of illegal behavior.

[mvp 78]

Ibot, you keep trying to push an issue that nobody else has cared about in 5 months.

[a700hitter]

He was taking pain killers by his own admission.

His marriage was on the rocks.

 

The information got out there...so what?

 

The only question is did those things play into the collapse and the player's loss of respect for TF? If so, then take some responsibility for that. The team had already collapsed when the information got out there.....so stop whinning about the information getting out and take responsibility for the team's collapse.

 

It isn't like anybody was accusing him WRONGLY and UNJUSTLY of illegal behavior.

It was a deliberate and unnecessary smear of someone who had been your manger for 8 years. It was despicable behavior on the part of the organization. That's what, and he did take responsibility for his part in the collapse. He got fired. You keep missing that point.

[ibot2much]

Ibot' date=' you keep trying to push an issue that nobody else has cared about in 5 months.[/quote']

 

"NOBODY" ????Since when do you speak for everybody?

 

The story in on the front page of the GLOBE and when people stop responding HERE then we know that today's story is a dead issue and it will remain dormant until something else happens.

 

If you don't care, :rolleyes:move on

[mvp 78]

You're the only one pushing the issue. The story isn't running the "collapse due to dugs and affairs" issue you keep posting about.

[ibot2much]

You're the only one pushing the issue. The story isn't running the "collapse due to dugs and affairs" issue you keep posting about.

 

Pushing what issue? It is a conversation about something that was in the paper today. Looks like TF is the one pushing it if he had to drag his pet GLOBE reporter and co book author to print his whinning. Get the f*** off the thread if it bothers you.

[mvp 78]

Haha, ok.

[a700hitter]

"NOBODY" ????Since when do you speak for everybody?

 

The story in on the front page of the GLOBE and when people stop responding HERE then we know that today's story is a dead issue and it will remain dormant until something else happens.

 

If you don't care, :rolleyes:move on

Your whole premise about bashing Tito on this isn't valid. You keep saying that he should take responsibility for the collapse, but you refuse to acknowledge that he was the first one to take accountability and he got fired. Getting fired is being held accountable. The rumor mongering and and whisper campaign is nothing more than an unnecessary smear.

[IRON HORSE]

It is a sheer and utter shame to hear this story. In my personal opinion, Francona was thrown under the bus in Boston's hot bed media. If Boston did not collapse in the end of last year than he would still be Manager and these "hot button" issues of Francona taking pain pills, and the whole "chicken and beer" in the club house controversy would not see the light of day. I agree with the previous posts that he did bring a championship back into the franchise after quite the drought. Seeing as this season marks the centennial of the franchise, Francona should make an appearance and receive the right reception that he deserves. I really liked Francona as manager of the Sox, (as you can tell) and he personally was the scapegoat!

[ibot2much]

Seeing as this season marks the centennial of the franchise' date=' Francona should make an appearance and receive the right reception that he deserves. [/quote']

 

I agree with you on this point. He should have accepted the invite and kept his mouth shut about that 5 month old issue....His dragging DS in to tell his story today is the current issue I have a problem with. He said he didn't want to go to Fenway and it would be hypocritical to wave and hug people. Hell, he would be waving to the fans.....a lot of whom feel as you do and would give him a warm welcome.

 

Instead he goes on about the 5 month old issue and how he felt they should have handled it.

[pedroias laser]

I agree with you on this point. He should have accepted the invite and kept his mouth shut about that 5 month old issue....His dragging DS in to tell his story today is the current issue I have a problem with. He said he didn't want to go to Fenway and it would be hypocritical to wave and hug people. Hell, he would be waving to the fans.....a lot of whom feel as you do and would give him a warm welcome.

 

Instead he goes on about the 5 month old issue and how he felt they should have handled it.

 

Wow so you are saying Francona should just suck it up and come back to a franchise that

basically bent him over and f***ed him in the ass?. You seem smarter then that and i'm

shocked at a statement like that considering the media and the FO did everything to

smear his name.

[ibot2much]

I don't think they sodomized him.... They printed information about him that was not a lie.

 

I'm thinking how much they hate him in Phillie. It seemed kind of hard to believe that they would hold a grudge against him, but now it makes sense.

 

Seems like there is a pattern here if he won't show up to greet the FANS at Fenway. Nobody is asking him to hug JH or kiss LL's ass......but he should show the fans some courtesy by showing up.

If he could not that he should have kept his mouth shut and not rehashed the old news.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I don't think they sodomized him.... They printed information about him that was not a lie.

 

I'm thinking how much they hate him in Phillie. It seemed kind of hard to believe that they would hold a grudge against him, but now it makes sense.

 

Seems like there is a pattern here if he won't show up to greet the FANS at Fenway. Nobody is asking him to hug JH or kiss LL's ass......but he should show the fans some courtesy by showing up.

If he could not that he should have kept his mouth shut and not rehashed the old news.

 

Give me a break dude. The smear campaign that they posted on Francona was absolutely pathetic. I wouldn't come back to Fenway if I were Francona, either.

 

It was inexcusable and unbelievable that someone would spill all of that information about Francona after he brought 2 WS titles to this city.

 

You've got to be a complete low life piece of s*** to give that information to the media.

 

And I'm not even a huge Francona fan.

[SoxSport]

Tito just provided further evidence that he was FIRED. Why should he come back?

[FredLynn]

Like Forsythe, I am no Terry Francona fan. I think he is overrated and mediocre as a field manager, at best. He protected his players way past what they deserved, and he allowed personal goals to supercede the needs of the team.

All that said, I think that what they did to him on the way out the door was WAY out of line. Material was published that was no one's business. Francona didn't murder or kill or steal; he simply wasn't that good of a manager. He did manage two WS champions. He deserved way better treatment than he got. Unfortunately, a kick on the way out the door is typical of this organization.

[SoxSport]

My recollection is that Francona said that only the training staff knew about the pain killers.

 

Come to think of it, wasn't that child molester of long ago also on the Red Sox training staff?

 

Maybe that tells you something about training staffs. There is always going to be one bad egg in the basket who is going to be a media source. Isn't that the way some of the steroid use has gotten out? And most likely the clubhouse beer in Boston.

[SoxSport]

Like Forsythe, I am no Terry Francona fan. I think he is overrated and mediocre as a field manager, at best. He protected his players way past what they deserved, and he allowed personal goals to supercede the needs of the team.

All that said, I think that what they did to him on the way out the door was WAY out of line. Material was published that was no one's business. Francona didn't murder or kill or steal; he simply wasn't that good of a manager. He did manage two WS champions. He deserved way better treatment than he got. Unfortunately, a kick on the way out the door is typical of this organization.

 

 

 

Actually, he got pretty good treatment. They gave him the option of leaving on his own.

They did the same with Epstein. The other option was to fire both of them publically.

That's done all the time.

 

They invited him back for the 100th anniversary as a courtesy. That he didn't accept tells you a lot. I don't think he left voluntarily.

 

What about Epstein? Has he been invited?

[DwightFright]

Come to think of it, wasn't that child molester of long ago also on the Red Sox training staff?

 

Maybe that tells you something about training staffs. There is always going to be one bad egg in the basket who is going to be a media source. Isn't that the way some of the steroid use has gotten out? And most likely the clubhouse beer in Boston.

 

I still think that if was someone on the training staff - and NOT someone in the high FO/owner's box - they would have done a lot more to root out the culprit. Firing a trainer would be a lot better press than doing nothing and therefore making it seem the owner/FO is the source.

[DwightFright]

The Red Sox brass would have seemed petty if they didn't invite Francona - but fully expecting that he would decline. It has to be uncomfortable for the team to have this celebration so close to the meltdown. I assume that they had to invite Theo as well, and Theo doesn't have any personal reason to decline.

[ibot2much]

Interesting about Epstein....I have read that the invites went out to everybody who has ever "worn a RS uniform". I don't know if they mean that literally or figuratively. Literally would preclude Epstein

[463]

It’s entertainment to us but business to them. If my company fired me and when I left I felt they had done me wrong…I would not entertain the idea of attending a celebration to honor the company. I wish it was different but I respect him not wanting to take part.

[463]

Interesting about Epstein....I have read that the invites went out to everybody who has ever "worn a RS uniform". I don't know if they mean that literally or figuratively. Literally would preclude Epstein

 

I would bet Theo was not on the list.

[seabeachfred]

Journalists have been fired, imprisoned, tortured, and murdered for absolutely refusing to disclose anonymous sources of information about stories ranging from the unimportant to the world-changing. Does Francona really think that this guy from the Globe is going to be any different?

 

If a journalist reveals his source, everyone will know about it and no one will give that journalist information anymore.

 

As for the rest of the story, I'm sick of hearing about last season. This is this season, so let's focus on that. Francona is no longer a member of the team and none of the issues of last year (off the field) are currently issues now. (That we know of).

 

Good points Youk but we are seeing about last season right now---we aren't playing worth s*** and that is the issue now. In that case today looks a lot like last September. However, even though I was not a Francona man the stuff coming out now in Shaunessy's column is telling me that Lucchino could really be a mean and vindictive *******.

[seabeachfred]

Were the painkillers and marriage problems affecting his ability to do the job? Something caused the players to turn on him. I don't think TF would be the best judge of whether he was part of the problem.

Of course it was an organization member or two who gave out the information.....who else would it be? They witnessed the interactions in the locker room

 

The fact that TF was more concerned with having the FO launch an investigation rather than consider than indeed his personal problems caused the collapse of the team is interesting to me.

 

He is STILL concerned with "how did it get out" rather than "what happened".

 

The players, with the exception of JP, had nothing to say about TF's demise.....nothing. The lack of support for TF was amazing.

 

I've maintained here and on two other boards that the Red Sox were not physically or mentally prepared for the 2011 season. That 12 game losing streak toward the end of Spring Training needed some pro-active leadership on the part of Francona---and it got none. I think that possibly a culture of losing came out of that because we were DOA when the season began and a total collapse that place in September was always a possibility with this team.

 

Was Francona on pain killers? Did the breakup of his marriage have a negative effect on his outlook? These are possibilities. What is a certainty is that Prune Face is an owner with as much PR ability as a snail and between him and Lucchino they made a joke of the team last season and seemingly now as well. While no Francona man, the filth and garbage that someone let loose on him was classless and disgusting. I'm more and more starting to believe that we may never dig our way out of this until the current ownership sells the team so Prune Face and his woman can watch their beloved soccer team in England and Lucchino can take his snakeoil somewhere else.

[DwightFright]

I've maintained here and on two other boards that the Red Sox were not physically or mentally prepared for the 2011 season. That 12 game losing streak toward the end of Spring Training needed some pro-active leadership on the part of Francona---and it got none. I think that possibly a culture of losing came out of that because we were DOA when the season began and a total collapse that place in September was always a possibility with this team.

 

Was Francona on pain killers? Did the breakup of his marriage have a negative effect on his outlook? These are possibilities. What is a certainty is that Prune Face is an owner with as much PR ability as a snail and between him and Lucchino they made a joke of the team last season and seemingly now as well. While no Francona man, the filth and garbage that someone let loose on him was classless and disgusting. I'm more and more starting to believe that we may never dig our way out of this until the current ownership sells the team so Prune Face and his woman can watch their beloved soccer team in England and Lucchino can take his snakeoil somewhere else.

 

With the Dodgers setting a new bar for franchise values, Henry prolly wouldn't sell the Sox for anything less than 3B. The Yanks are now gestimated to be worth 4B.