Bard to Rotation a Mistake?

[jacksonianmarch]

I told you guys first that f***ing with this kid's mojo was bad news. He was a nightmare in the minors as a starter. They had to make things simpler for his stupid ass. They cut him down to the stretch, simplified his arsenal and voila, he found it. Now, you f*** with a volatile kid and he falls apart. This may have some long reaching after effects, especially if this kid has lost his mechanics. He lost them at the end of last season and he has shown no inkling that he's found them again. It took them nearly 2 yrs to get his mechanics in line and who knows how long it will take for him to get them back. After walking no more than 4 batters in an inning since September of 2010, he walked an astounding 9 in September (career high). He comes off that and goes through an offseason where he needs to reincorporate the full windup and get ready as if he is going to be a starter. He comes in and walks 7 in 7.2IP and now is all out of whack. You guys thought I was a homer or was crazy, but he was a volatile kid who they straightened out, and now they've f***ed him all up again. Stupid move, and who knows how long he might be lost for out of the pen.

 

I also think Melancon has played into this. From everything I have seen and heard, he hasnt looked good and locking him into the 8th inning role might be giving Valentine some serious reflux. My bet is that Aceves and Doubront take the 4 and 5 slots and Padilla rots in the long role until Doubront or Aceves s*** the bed.

[Elktonnick]

Well this might sound like a reversal on my part but it really is not.

 

Bard has got terrific stuff. From where I sit there is only one thing standing in his way and that is the issue with his mechanics which lead directly to his lack of control. I don't see why the Sox have not been able to work this out with Bard or even improve it a little. When I see how poor his mechanics are sometimes it looks like the Sox have done nothing to help him improve. Remember this is exactly the issue he had last year and for my money it almost looks like he has regressed a bit in this particular regard. As bad as his mechanics were at times last year I don't remember him looking as hurky-jerky at any point last year when compared just to this ST.

 

Bard is a real deal talent with serious heat and movement that has done a good job in my view of developing secondary pitches.

 

Now the kid appears to have tried to work toward the rotation because that is what the Sox want and they are going to kick him back to the pen while still not having done anything that I can identify to resolve or improve his mechanics.

 

Honestly I am beginning to lose patience with this team. Wasted money....squandered talent.....this is starting to look ugly. If Iggy goes back to the minors at this point to me that will be one more step in the wrong direction.

 

OK so maybe Bard has to go back to the pen. My point is nothing seems to get better. Players seem to stagnate here lately. I am beginning to have nightmares that start with Bard and Doubront finding their way to others teams where, low and behold, they begin to flourish because somebody smarter than we are finds ways to resolve their issues and/or get the most out of them.

 

For all the money they spend they seem to sit there with their thumbs stuck up their asses when it comes to actually moving the team forward. I don't know what happened to these guys after 2004 and surely after 2007. However something is wrong. Can't say I know what it is but there is something just not right about the way this team functions. So far, it does not appear to me that V has changed much of that other than window dressing. Probably unfair because he is only one guy and he has not had much time. But there is something wrong here that I think goes past the Manager anyway.

 

Theo left us a mess. And Cherry really din't get us much help during the off season. I thought they'd give Bard at least until mid May but I think Bobby doesn't beleive he can wait that long. Bard was only going to pitch 140 innings as a starter this year so he was destined to end up in the pen in any case. Better now than later. Aceves at least has had experience as a starter.

[User Name]

I told you guys first that f***ing with this kid's mojo was bad news. He was a nightmare in the minors as a starter. They had to make things simpler for his stupid ass. They cut him down to the stretch, simplified his arsenal and voila, he found it. Now, you f*** with a volatile kid and he falls apart. This may have some long reaching after effects, especially if this kid has lost his mechanics. He lost them at the end of last season and he has shown no inkling that he's found them again. It took them nearly 2 yrs to get his mechanics in line and who knows how long it will take for him to get them back. After walking no more than 4 batters in an inning since September of 2010, he walked an astounding 9 in September (career high). He comes off that and goes through an offseason where he needs to reincorporate the full windup and get ready as if he is going to be a starter. He comes in and walks 7 in 7.2IP and now is all out of whack. You guys thought I was a homer or was crazy, but he was a volatile kid who they straightened out, and now they've f***ed him all up again. Stupid move, and who knows how long he might be lost for out of the pen.

 

I also think Melancon has played into this. From everything I have seen and heard, he hasnt looked good and locking him into the 8th inning role might be giving Valentine some serious reflux. My bet is that Aceves and Doubront take the 4 and 5 slots and Padilla rots in the long role until Doubront or Aceves s*** the bed.

 

Obviously the Red Sox came to this website, read your posts and realized how wrong their approach was. After all, who are they to contend with your scouting and analytical rapport?

 

On the other hand, the Melancon point may very well be true.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Wow. Overreact much?

 

Bard had ****one***** bad outing this spring, and it was in a long relief role.

 

5 innings, 3 BB, setting final 8 down in order, 3 ER? That's a bad outing now?

 

Take out his long relief, he's walked 5 in 10 IP and allowed 3 ER.

 

Lester has walked 7 in 11 IP and allowed 7 ER. We must have ruined him too because there was back to back games back in 2002 when he was in high school where he walked 8 batters. Man. He's gone off and reverted. We've ruined him. Who knows how long it'll take to get back to normal.

 

Come on man. You're being absolutely ridiculous. He's thrown 10 innings as a starter, and you're claiming he's turned into a horrific pitcher because he's too dumb and not talented enough to be a starter. That's ridiculous. To even reference his starts in A ball is ridiculous too. He's a much different pitcher now.

 

Before you crown the Sox as cellar dwellers and yourself as a genius, maybe give the guy more than 10 innings.

[jacksonianmarch]

The sox dont read the site, I am just throwing it out there since I have said this since day 1 with him. And the Melancon point is the crux of the argument, IMO. You have an oft injured closer, a setup guy who shrinks on big stages and the solution could be the guy who is s***ing the bed in the rotation. I continue to contend that the sox would have more slack with a guy like Bard if they werent leaving 40% of their rotation to chance. If they had a #3 who they could rely on to be healthy and a #4 who could give innings, then they could be more patient with Bard. But right now, he's a disaster

[Bellhorn04]

I told you guys first that f***ing with this kid's mojo was bad news. He was a nightmare in the minors as a starter. They had to make things simpler for his stupid ass. They cut him down to the stretch, simplified his arsenal and voila, he found it. Now, you f*** with a volatile kid and he falls apart. This may have some long reaching after effects, especially if this kid has lost his mechanics. He lost them at the end of last season and he has shown no inkling that he's found them again. It took them nearly 2 yrs to get his mechanics in line and who knows how long it will take for him to get them back. After walking no more than 4 batters in an inning since September of 2010, he walked an astounding 9 in September (career high). He comes off that and goes through an offseason where he needs to reincorporate the full windup and get ready as if he is going to be a starter. He comes in and walks 7 in 7.2IP and now is all out of whack. You guys thought I was a homer or was crazy, but he was a volatile kid who they straightened out, and now they've f***ed him all up again. Stupid move, and who knows how long he might be lost for out of the pen.

 

I also think Melancon has played into this. From everything I have seen and heard, he hasnt looked good and locking him into the 8th inning role might be giving Valentine some serious reflux. My bet is that Aceves and Doubront take the 4 and 5 slots and Padilla rots in the long role until Doubront or Aceves s*** the bed.

 

Only thing is, Bard didn't pitch that bad today. Small samples, aren't they? Based on these spring numbers we might conclude that Nova is f***ed up too.

[jacksonianmarch]

Wow. Overreact much?

 

Bard had ****one***** bad outing this spring, and it was in a long relief role.

 

5 innings, 3 BB, setting final 8 down in order, 3 ER? That's a bad outing now?

 

Take out his long relief, he's walked 5 in 10 IP and allowed 3 ER.

 

Lester has walked 7 in 11 IP and allowed 7 ER. We must have ruined him too because there was back to back games back in 2002 when he was in high school where he walked 8 batters. Man. He's gone off and reverted. We've ruined him. Who knows how long it'll take to get back to normal.

 

Come on man. You're being absolutely ridiculous. He's thrown 10 innings as a starter, and you're claiming he's turned into a horrific pitcher because he's too dumb and not talented enough to be a starter. That's ridiculous. To even reference his starts in A ball is ridiculous too. He's a much different pitcher now.

 

Before you crown the Sox as cellar dwellers and yourself as a genius, maybe give the guy more than 10 innings.

 

Lester and Bard are in two completely different modes right now. Lester has nothing to prove. If Jon throws 10 more innings this spring and gives up 15 homers, he is still the #2 behind Beckett. If Bard did that, he'd be in the pen immediately. There are two types of players in ST, guys just putting their work in and guys trying to win a job. Bard is trying to win a job, Lester is getting his work in. Big difference

[jacksonianmarch]

Only thing is' date=' Bard didn't pitch that bad today. Small samples, aren't they? Based on these spring numbers we might conclude that Nova is f***ed up too.[/quote']

 

Once again, there is a difference between guys getting their work in and guys trying to win something. Nova is getting a spot in the rotation, Bard has to work for it. On that note, though, I am a little worried about Nova.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I do agree with the Melancon point as well - He may be the very reason that Bard isn't a starter.

 

I'll say this - if Aceves can become a solid starter for us (i.e. ERA in the 3.8-3.9 range), then the bullpen is much stronger with Melancon - Bard - Bailey as opposed to Aceves - Melancon - Bailey.

 

It's a very fair point that Melancon may have hosed Bard, but Bard's results or talents as a SP have nothing to do with it.

 

Either way - the back end of the rotation this year is much, much better than it was last year, and I saw Cafardo said the Sox are expecting DiceK back in late May.

 

I'm actually excited and curious to see if Valentine has an effect on DiceK.

[jacksonianmarch]

Going into the season, there is no possible way you could say the #4 and 5 spots are better than they were at this time last yr. You couldnt predict that DiceK would need TJS and Lackey should have had TJS prior to the season. Also, you guys keep relying on DiceK in May. It won't get you far. He wont be the DiceK of old (was he really that good) until the playoffs come

[jung]

Actually I should not be directing my ire at the team specifically because it is the organization as a whole that seems screwed up. In some cases we have picked at the edges of this topic with regard to things like their FA signings especially the high ticket signings and things of that nature. I for one have avoided discussing issues of how players are handled or developed but something is just flat wrong here.

 

It almost looks like guys develop in spite of the organization not because of it. This is where comments about what other organizations do with far less resources really begin to resonate for me. Nobody is perfect but there is so much crap surrounding this organization that I think even Tom Yawkey would be spinning in his grave by now....not to say he was some genius. He wasn't. Things are boiling pretty close to the surface when a knucklehead like me begins to notice.

 

I do agree that this organization has been left in a quagmire that will take a goodly period to resolve. I am not ready to lay it all at Theo's doorstep and I don't think I will ever be able to do that. Just as I have commented that there are issues that go past the Manager here I think there are issues that go past the GM as well.

 

It is becoming easier and easier for me to accept the notion that JH has not had the same interest that he once had and has not had his eyes on the ball for a long time now. Absentee ownership will do it every time.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Once again' date=' there is a difference between guys getting their work in and guys trying to win something. Nova is getting a spot in the rotation, Bard has to work for it. On that note, though, I am a little worried about Nova.[/quote']

 

What?? It's been widely publicized that Nova doesn't have an immediate spot in the rotation. And it's been widely publicized that Bard getting his spot in the rotation was merely a formality. You say he's trying to win a spot, and that may be true, but that doesn't mean you can just expect him to come in and be spotless and not rusty at all.

 

You're giving Nova and Lester a pass for being rusty during spring training, and you're saying Bard is an epic failure.

 

Garza walked 14 in 21 IP last ST, had a 10.38 ERA, and how was his season w the Cubs?

 

Or what about Ogando's 5.06 ERA last ST, did that affect him, I mean he was trying to earn a slot in the Rangers rotation.

 

Matt Moore has walked 4 in 4 IP and allowed 4 ER. Rays probably going to put him in the bullpen because he can't handle the windup based on ST?

 

It's all ******** man. ST stats mean nothing because pitchers are ironing out kinks so they don't have to do it in the season.

 

And Bard had an above average outing last outing.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Going into the season' date=' there is no possible way you could say the #4 and 5 spots are better than they were at this time last yr. You couldnt predict that DiceK would need TJS and Lackey should have had TJS prior to the season. Also, you guys keep relying on DiceK in May. It won't get you far. He wont be the DiceK of old (was he really that good) until the playoffs come[/quote']

 

I can 110% say that the #4 and #5 guys right now are going to perform better than Lackey/DiceK/Wakefield/Miller/Weiland did last year. Yes. I can absolutely say that.

 

This team is in 100% better position than they were last year considering how the above 5 pitchers did last season.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Wakefield + Weiland + Miller + Lackey + Bedard = 450 SP Innings of 5.90 ERA baseball.

 

Yes. The Red Sox are in better position because the #4 and #5 starters will outperform what that crew did last season. To say that they won't is completely obnoxious.

[Bellhorn04]

Going into the season' date=' there is no possible way you could say the #4 and 5 spots are better than they were at this time last yr.[/quote']

 

I'd say it's more a case of thinking the #4 and 5 spots have to be better than they were most of last year.

[SoxSport]

A lot of this stuff is created in the media. Bard has a bad outing and he shouldn't start. Halladay has a bad outing, and all of a sudden he has lost his fastball. He was livid. They don't give these guys any room to experiment in ST. Everything gets taken seriously, under a microscope. The media is responsible mainly for those multi million dollar salaries, so they get their pound of flesh.

 

So I'm watching MLB channel tonite, and all they want to talk about is Tebo and the Jets! Baseball channel talking football. All these sports networks are NY-based, and it sure does show. And the Jets are the biggest media sluts in sports. It's all about that big fat NY advertising market. Fortunately, the Red Sox get good exposure on MLB, as well.

[SoxSport]

Wakefield + Weiland + Miller + Lackey + Bedard = 450 SP Innings of 5.90 ERA baseball.

 

Yes. The Red Sox are in better position because the #4 and #5 starters will outperform what that crew did last season. To say that they won't is completely obnoxious.

 

When MLB channel wasn't talking about Tebo and the Jets , they had a saber guy on who was talking about how defense is vastly underestimated in its effect on pitching, mainly because it hasn't been quantified as well yet. But he said that's happening now, and they are finding defense is more important than originally thought--in terms of runs allowed, how much the bullpen is used, etc.

 

It strikes me that one of the Red Sox main problems is their neglect of defense. The lack of range, for example, last year on the left side of the infield. The outfield defense--Crawford wasn't great at Fenway in LF. And RF defense was average. And their defense against stolen bases was nada. So how much of this had an effect on their pitching, in terms of runs allowed and bullpen use? I doubt the front office or Tito ever bothered to ask.

[jung]

By the way......I should point out that the Sox don't have the exclusive rights to screwed up organizational messes. Neither of the teams to our immediate south have been models of efficiency either for my money. Frankly I only care about whether we are performing as well as we can or at least well enough and don't give a rats ass about who might be as screwed up as we are or worse for that matter.

 

I hate seeing talented players regress. Usually they end up being tossed on the scrap heap or end up flourishing elsewhere. I don't think this team can afford it cause upper management has temporarily tightened the purse strings. So we have to make the best of what we have. Frankly it seems to me that it has been a long time since the Sox have made the best of what they have.

 

As for 4 and 5 being better than what they were last year, they could hardly be worse but that is not the issue. Pointing to a guy headed for TJ and a guy headed for retirement really does not make for a compelling argument. The issue for me is that we are stuck really with what we had last year in the sense that if anything happens to 1,2 or 3 in the rotation, we really don't have any apparent answers.

 

While I have posted here that if I had to make the decision today Aceves would be my 4 cause he has out-pitched everybody vying for the position by a wide margin, that does not change the fact that Aceves may well be the most versatile reliever in baseball. That is his spot and that is where he would actually do this team the most good.

 

While we can muse over whether Bard to the rotation should have ever been tried at all, if you look at the two of them Aceves and Bard, Bard would appear the more natural starter because his stuff is that much better. So, my issue is that it appears to me that Bard could be and quite possibly should be a starter but he has not progressed. If anything he appears to have regressed. You cannot blame him entirely for that. What the hell are coaches and baseball organizations for if not to take talent and develop it. Just when we would dearly love to have a solid 4, he might be sitting there right in front of us but we have allowed him to go backwards!

 

So now it appears that we will be forced to take the most versatile reliever in baseball and toss him in the rotation because we don't have a choice and take a kid that very likely should be starting by now and toss him into the pigeonhole of the 8th inning set up guy again because we may not have a choice. Maybe Cook will bail us out of this mess if we are incredibly lucky.

 

I am so pissed off I am about ready to accept Bard's walks to see him start but V very likely will not and I cannot blame him. I am so mad I could spit nickels. If Iggy goes back to the minors I think I will take a long walk off a short pier.

[SoxFanForsyth]

When MLB channel wasn't talking about Tebo and the Jets , they had a saber guy on who was talking about how defense is vastly underestimated in its effect on pitching, mainly because it hasn't been quantified as well yet. But he said that's happening now, and they are finding defense is more important than originally thought--in terms of runs allowed, how much the bullpen is used, etc.

 

It strikes me that one of the Red Sox main problems is their neglect of defense. The lack of range, for example, last year on the left side of the infield. The outfield defense--Crawford wasn't great at Fenway in LF. And RF defense was average. And their defense against stolen bases was nada. So how much of this had an effect on their pitching, in terms of runs allowed and bullpen use? I doubt the front office or Tito ever bothered to ask.

 

Which is exactly why Iglesias belongs at SS all season long. Defense up the middle is crucial to a teams success. Iggy, Pedey, and Ells will help this pitching tremendously. Just look at Iglesias today - made a great play to get a guy out in a pickle between 2nd and 3rd then flipped to 2nd to nab the guy trying to go from 1st to 2nd. Got Lester out of the inning and saved anywhere from 5-15 pitches, which could be an inning.

 

One good thing is that Shoppach is an excellent defensive catcher. He'll be playing vs LHP, which is quite a bit considering Moore, Price, Romero, and Sabathia in the division. That's good - he'll be able to hold down the Rays from running all over the Sox this year.

[jung]

The issue is not by the way a bad outing vs a good outing. The issue is Bard's mechanics are still obviously a mess by his own admission! You can't just sweep that under the rug nor can you likely change it between ST starts.

 

So when the Sox decided that they would make the effort this year to turn Bard into a starter what lamp did the Sox start to rub in an effort to "wish" their way to better mechanics for him?

[jung]

So what now......I have to wait for a Saber Matrix to be developed for the Sox to figure out how important SS is defensively? There is not enough evidence to be found in..... oh let me think..... the last 100 years of baseball for the Sox to lurch uncontrollably forward and burp out the right decision?

 

The single most impressive thing I give V credit for so far is recognizing that Iggy needs to be here now....not a few months now....not next year.....NOW!

[seabeachfred]

Keep one thing in mind my friends. Iglesias is an outstanding fielder and all this talk of his only having to concentrate there is really a lot of hooey. If he doesn't hit, he will no doubt be pinched hit for in the late innings and therefore not in the field in the crucial eighth and ninth innings. Also keep in mind that Iggy is going to want to be able to hit and like a lot of young infielders noted for defense, if he fails he could very well take out to the field with him. We better be damn sure that he isn't that kind of player and that we have enough offensive firepower to cover for him.

 

Also I don't like this crap talk about trading Aviles to the Phillies. What would they give us in exchange for a versatile competitor who hits lefties very well, one of their disappointing outfielders who have failed to hit. We'd need a top notch pitching prospect in exchange. Even then losing a guy like Aviles would only make us more vulnerable to left handed pitchers. Just thought I'd share those tidbits with you.

[jung]

No need to trade Aviiles. He is very good utility player and even a passible outfielder. He is just not a front line SS. He does not have the range to be a front line SS.

 

As for Iggy. If they pinch hit for him it will be because he comes up late in games where we are behind and they need a hit. Baring that, they won't pinch hit for him. By that point he may very well have already saved a run or runs in a given game particularly if the alternative is Aviles.

 

Apparently he has not hit anything yet and has not taken it out to the field. The Sox will need to take the pressure of hitting off of him and make it clear to him that hitting is not why he is here.

 

As i have often said there is the chance that if Iggy never sees anything he can hit, he may never hit anything but it seems to me that the Sox have already crossed that bridge when they did not leave him in AA where he would have had a real good shot to develop his hitting along with the pitchers that are developing apace on the other side of the equation.

 

If Aviles looked better to me I would likely not be as adamant. However Aviles range is terrible at SS. He is a liability on a team with a pitching staff that will be looking for defensive help. In addition it is clear that if the coaching staff has one initiative that I can identify, it is for pitchers to throw ground ball outs. Do you really want Aviles out there with pitchers trying to throw ground balls? I don't. I have seen enough thank you.

[Dojji]

The issue is not by the way a bad outing vs a good outing. The issue is Bard's mechanics are still obviously a mess by his own admission! You can't just sweep that under the rug nor can you likely change it between ST starts.

 

So when the Sox decided that they would make the effort this year to turn Bard into a starter what lamp did the Sox start to rub in an effort to "wish" their way to better mechanics for him?

 

Mechanics is an issue that can only be solved with reps.

 

Guys, if you throw Bard out there, you're throwing him out there to learn on the job.

 

You throw Daniel Bard in the rotation for the sake of what he'll be in 2-3 years. Not this year. This year you take 150 innings of average baseball if that's what you get. That's not something the Red Sox are used to doing, but in this case, that's exactly what they're letting themselves in for.

 

This kid is going to make mistakes that most starters get over before they're promoted, simply because he didn't get the opportunity to learn from those mistakes in AAA. Fortunately he has the pure stuff to atone for a lot of those mistakes, and with a bit of luck, he'll develop the rest as time goes on.

 

Personally I don't know what Jacko's so excited about. How are Hughes and Chamberlain, Jacks? Dominating the AL and racking up multiple Cy Youngs yet?

[kapsis21]

What?? It's been widely publicized that Nova doesn't have an immediate spot in the rotation. And it's been widely publicized that Bard getting his spot in the rotation was merely a formality. You say he's trying to win a spot, and that may be true, but that doesn't mean you can just expect him to come in and be spotless and not rusty at all.

 

You're giving Nova and Lester a pass for being rusty during spring training, and you're saying Bard is an epic failure.

 

Garza walked 14 in 21 IP last ST, had a 10.38 ERA, and how was his season w the Cubs?

 

Or what about Ogando's 5.06 ERA last ST, did that affect him, I mean he was trying to earn a slot in the Rangers rotation.

 

Matt Moore has walked 4 in 4 IP and allowed 4 ER. Rays probably going to put him in the bullpen because he can't handle the windup based on ST?

 

It's all ******** man. ST stats mean nothing because pitchers are ironing out kinks so they don't have to do it in the season.

 

And Bard had an above average outing last outing.

 

I agree partially that ST stats shouldnt be that important. Matt Moore was getting tanked by Triple A folks. but it needs to be a confidence builder for someone who is trying to get a starting job..and so far i think he has been okay not the best but its not the worst either..

and if Bard figures out the starting pitcher job our bullpen suddenly becomes more breakable.

my gut says Aceves would be in the bullpen even though he has been pitching better than anybody... if V puts both of them in starting rotation boy o boy i am going to hate him.

[kapsis21]

Well this might sound like a reversal on my part but it really is not.

 

Bard has got terrific stuff. From where I sit there is only one thing standing in his way and that is the issue with his mechanics which lead directly to his lack of control. I don't see why the Sox have not been able to work this out with Bard or even improve it a little. When I see how poor his mechanics are sometimes it looks like the Sox have done nothing to help him improve. Remember this is exactly the issue he had last year and for my money it almost looks like he has regressed a bit in this particular regard. As bad as his mechanics were at times last year I don't remember him looking as hurky-jerky at any point last year when compared just to this ST.

 

Bard is a real deal talent with serious heat and movement that has done a good job in my view of developing secondary pitches.

 

Now the kid appears to have tried to work toward the rotation because that is what the Sox want and they are going to kick him back to the pen while still not having done anything that I can identify to resolve or improve his mechanics.

 

Honestly I am beginning to lose patience with this team. Wasted money....squandered talent.....this is starting to look ugly. If Iggy goes back to the minors at this point to me that will be one more step in the wrong direction.

 

OK so maybe Bard has to go back to the pen. My point is nothing seems to get better. Players seem to stagnate here lately. I am beginning to have nightmares that start with Bard and Doubront finding their way to others teams where, low and behold, they begin to flourish because somebody smarter than we are finds ways to resolve their issues and/or get the most out of them.

 

For all the money they spend they seem to sit there with their thumbs stuck up their asses when it comes to actually moving the team forward. I don't know what happened to these guys after 2004 and surely after 2007. However something is wrong. Can't say I know what it is but there is something just not right about the way this team functions. So far, it does not appear to me that V has changed much of that other than window dressing. Probably unfair because he is only one guy and he has not had much time. But there is something wrong here that I think goes past the Manager anyway.

 

i am with you man.. i would love to see Bard at number 4 atleast for 2 months and let him loose. get to regular games and see what he does. if he has a meltdown we say it happens. and let him get back to what he does best getting 3 outs. the upside though is that he could develop into a good number 4 starter..

what i do worry about is our bullpen in the AL east with TB, Yaknees, and Toronto might give us knightmares... and i hate that feeling..

[jung]

Mechanics can be resolved by reps if you are repeating the right things.

 

Bard's issue is not mechanics pitch in and pitch out....inning in and inning out. He cannot seem to get settled into his motion, such as it is, early enough in innings and particularly early enough in innings early in games. Once he finally finds his rhythm he seems for the most part to be fine but it just takes him to long to find it particularly if he sits for what we would likely agree is kind of a mean average period between innings. It is like he has the typical starter's tough first inning every inning if he sits at all in between innings.

 

Somebody on that coaching staff has got to help him find a way to get into his rhythm earlier than that. I don't know if part of the key to that is going back to a full wind up again or not. I don't think so because there are more moving parts to a full wind up and he can't seem to get into a rhythm even pitching from the stretch. However I am not convinced that the Sox have a clue one way or the other. It does not matter whether I have a clue or not. Nobody is paying me to do that job.

 

Have him count steps in his motion in his head if has to.....something.....ANYTHING...... At least he has the more common problem of rushing his front leg and getting it ahead of the rest of his motion instead of lagging and leaving his front leg behind. That can be really ugly.

 

At this point this Sox organization needs to fix Bard so that he can be effective whether the role is bullpen or rotation. It is pretty staggering to me that he finished the season with this problem last year and if anything has gotten worse.

 

So what did they do at the end of last season. Was there an exit evaluation of any kind given? Any instructions or help during the off season? How do you let a guy with his obvious natural talent leave with such a glaring problem, come back and be worse more than half way through ST?

[seabeachfred]

Mechanics can be resolved by reps if you are repeating the right things.

 

Bard's issue is not mechanics pitch in and pitch out....inning in and inning out. He cannot seem to get settled into his motion, such as it is, early enough in innings and particularly early enough in innings early in games. Once he finally finds his rhythm he seems for the most part to be fine but it just takes him to long to find it particularly if he sits for what we would likely agree is kind of a mean average period between innings. It is like he has the typical starter's tough first inning every inning if he sits at all in between innings.

 

Somebody on that coaching staff has got to help him find a way to get into his rhythm earlier than that. I don't know if part of the key to that is going back to a full wind up again or not. I don't think so because there are more moving parts to a full wind up and he can't seem to get into a rhythm even pitching from the stretch. However I am not convinced that the Sox have a clue one way or the other. It does not matter whether I have a clue or not. Nobody is paying me to do that job.

 

Have him count steps in his motion in his head if has to.....something.....ANYTHING...... At least he has the more common problem of rushing his front leg and getting it ahead of the rest of his motion instead of lagging and leaving his front leg behind. That can be really ugly.

 

At this point this Sox organization needs to fix Bard so that he can be effective whether the role is bullpen or rotation. It is pretty staggering to me that he finished the season with this problem last year and if anything has gotten worse.

 

So what did they do at the end of last season. Was there an exit evaluation of any kind given? Any instructions or help during the off season? How do you let a guy with his obvious natural talent leave with such a glaring problem, come back and be worse more than half way through ST?

 

The team was a mess last September and I think all concerned just wanted the nightmare to end and go about their business. Now we're facing this problem with Bard. If he can't get this mechanics and release points ironed out very very soon the only recourse is to send him back to the bullpen where he would pitch less innings and be abled to be tutored more since he wouldn't on the mound that often. This thing has to be settled within the next week or we might be looking at another miserable start and we had enough of those under the old regime.

[a700hitter]

I am trying to be optimistic about the rotation, but it is March 22nd and opening day is less than 2 weeks away. No one is stepping up to win the 4th and 5th spots in the rotation. Silva washed out before games started. Padilla pitched a few games and now he is injured. Ohledorf sucks. Doubront has been inconsistent at best. Bard has had terrible command. He ended well in his last outing, but he needs to step it up in his next outing or Bobby V is going to send him back to the pen. The only guy that has performed better than expected has been Cook, and he will not log enough innings to start the season in the rotation. Aceves has been the best of the bunch and he probably deserves a spot in the rotation, but losing him from the pen would be a huge blow.

 

Our bullpen has been equally disappointing. Melancon has been horrible as has Albers. Ditto Miller and Bowden. Bailey has looked ordinary.

 

They have two weeks to get on track, but I don't think there is any cream that will rise to the top in that time. It looks more likely that the s*** is sinking to the bottom.

 

I'm not being negative. This is how they look at this moment. IT is bad enough that many of us are pinning our hopes on an early return by Dice K, but that is a long shot.

[iortiz]

Well, To me this is getting clearer... Aceves might be the "solution" at this point at 4th spot. Reinforce the BP. Send Bard to BP where he belongs. Shuffle the 5th spot with the others, and find out who could be the 5th guy; there's no more gentlemen, we decided not to bring another SP. Crossing fingers and hopefully FO's decisions work out.