Red Sox 2012 Spring Training Thread.

[User Name]

Discuss Red Sox Spring Training happenings here.

[redsoxfan3]

Can we take anything away from Bard and Aceves' performance today? They both have an ERA of 9.00 after pitching their first inning in a B game. I know that it was their first live game action of the year, so they are trying to get back into the swing of things.

[Station 13]

Can we take anything away from Bard and Aceves' performance today? They both have an ERA of 9.00 after pitching their first inning in a B game.

Season OVER.

[Spudboy]

Season OVER.

 

I concur.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Season OVER.

 

Lmao.

[redsoxfan3]

Season OVER.

 

Aren't you just a jokester?

[a700hitter]

Aren't you just a jokester?

I heard that both Bard and Aceves looked good yesterday. By the time I get down there, March 17th -24th, they should be stretched out to 4 or 5 innings. It will be interesting to see how they do the second time through the order. In 2006, Papelbon was a starter in Spring Training. I was psyched to see what he could do. He would tear through the order the first time around, but the second time around it was a different story. He had a lot of problems going deep into a game. I don't think he had the secondary pitches refined enough to be a starter at that time.

[Dojji]

It's BACK!

 

I'm listening to Mariners-Athletics ball on Gameday Audio and I hadn't realized just how much I'd missed it.

 

Full year of baseball audio, any team any time. Best $15 I've ever spent.

[YAZMAN]

Can we take anything away from Bard and Aceves' performance today? They both have an ERA of 9.00 after pitching their first inning in a B game. I know that it was their first live game action of the year' date=' so they are trying to get back into the swing of things.[/quote']

 

Did we get beat by the BC split squad?

[mvp 78]

Did we get beat by the BC split squad?

 

That's tomorrow!

[redsoxfan3]

I heard that both Bard and Aceves looked good yesterday. By the time I get down there' date=' March 17th -24th, they should be stretched out to 4 or 5 innings. It will be interesting to see how they do the second time through the order. In 2006, Papelbon was a starter in Spring Training. I was psyched to see what he could do. He would tear through the order the first time around, but the second time around it was a different story. He had a lot of problems going deep into a game. I don't think he had the secondary pitches refined enough to be a starter at that time.[/quote']

 

That is good news. I didn't hear that. All I heard was that they both gave up a run. I know that was the first inning for them pitching, so I didn't read too much into it, but I was just curious if someone actually heard something about them. Hopefully both of them can prove that they will do better than Paps did in 2006. I know I am looking forward to watching them pitch.

[seabeachfred]

You know what I would like to see posted? After each ST game a report to see if all of our guys got through the game without getting injured or banged up. IMO we really need to stay healthy this season since we may not have the depth in pitching other clubs have UNLESS a couple of those so-called dregs suddenly discover the fountain of youth. That is why I was encouraged by what 700 said about Bard and Aceves. If they looked fine yesterday it is a small step in the right direction.

[ORS]

I heard that both Bard and Aceves looked good yesterday. By the time I get down there' date=' March 17th -24th, they should be stretched out to 4 or 5 innings. It will be interesting to see how they do the second time through the order. In 2006, Papelbon was a starter in Spring Training. I was psyched to see what he could do. He would tear through the order the first time around, but the second time around it was a different story. He had a lot of problems going deep into a game. I don't think he had the secondary pitches refined enough to be a starter at that time.[/quote']

Papelbon has never really had consistent secondary pitches. Sure, he's flashed some good stretches with the slider and splitter, but none of them have been as consistent as Bard's breaking ball. Add refinement to his change-up, and I think Bard will have enough different looks to keep hitters honest.

[mvp 78]

Paps' slider and splitter are horrible.

 

I'm not sure about Bard's changeup, but he has a really good slider. It's definitely going to be an interesting transition.

[seabeachfred]

Paps' slider and splitter are horrible.

 

I'm not sure about Bard's changeup, but he has a really good slider. It's definitely going to be an interesting transition.

 

I sure hope Bard is working on his change-up, whatever it may be, in Spring Training games. A good fast ball and slider are thrown hard so it might not fox out hitters that much in variation, and if Bard hangs one, it's out of here. A change throws the hitter's timing off, and, besides, I think a good starter needs three decent pitchers to win big unless his name in Clayton Kershaw or Tim Lincecom and at last check we don't have either of them. What I do not know is whether Bard even has a change. Anyone know of i t?

[Dojji]

In theory he's supposed to have a cutter and a circle-change, so quoth Soxprospects.

[User Name]

' date=' besides, I think a good starter needs three decent pitchers to win big unless his name in Clayton Kershaw or Tim Lincecom and at last check we don't have either of them. [/quote']

 

What do you mean by this? Both Kershaw and Lincecum have full repertoires with at least three above-average pitches.

[The Boomer]

What do you mean by this? Both Kershaw and Lincecum have full repertoires with at least three above-average pitches.

 

Kershaw throws his FB about 66% of the time, but he has 3 other pitches that all have positive value. Lincecum's slider and change are actually his best pitches.

 

David Price, on the other hand, throws the heater a lot and it's his best pitch, but even he has been using his change a lot more. Source for all of this is fangraphs.

 

No matter what your name is or how good your FB is, you can't get away with one plus pitch as a MLB starter. I hope Bard spends his time getting those other pitches together, even if means he gets rocked a few times in ST.

[example1]

Bard definitely has a changeup. It's in development, but he has one.

[a700hitter]

Bard definitely has a changeup. It's in development' date=' but he has one.[/quote']He's going to need 3 pitches in his new role. The fastball and slider are plus pitches. He doesn't need the changeup to be a plus pitch, but he needs it to be somewhat consistent just to give batters a different look.

[User Name]

Kershaw throws his FB about 66% of the time, but he has 3 other pitches that all have positive value. Lincecum's slider and change are actually his best pitches.

 

David Price, on the other hand, throws the heater a lot and it's his best pitch, but even he has been using his change a lot more. Source for all of this is fangraphs.

 

No matter what your name is or how good your FB is, you can't get away with one plus pitch as a MLB starter. I hope Bard spends his time getting those other pitches together, even if means he gets rocked a few times in ST.

 

The pitch values from Fangraphs are usually a pretty accurate description of where a pitch stands in matter of effectiveness for specific pitchers provided you have a significant sample size, like the one that exists for Kershaw and Lincecum.

 

In short, Fred was absolutely dead wrong in his assessment.

[The Boomer]

He's going to need 3 pitches in his new role. The fastball and slider are plus pitches. He doesn't need the changeup to be a plus pitch' date=' but he needs it to be somewhat consistent just to give batters a different look.[/quote']

 

I agree that changeup is the logical 3rd pitch for Bard. If he can get a nice 75 mph change going, he will be pretty near unhittable.

 

The only problem is that having a good change is very hard to do. You have to have exactly the same mechanics as your FB, but the ball has to come out 20 MPH slower. It's tough to do well.

[The Boomer]

The pitch values from Fangraphs are usually a pretty accurate description of where a pitch stands in matter of effectiveness for specific pitchers provided you have a significant sample size, like the one that exists for Kershaw and Lincecum.

 

In short, Fred was absolutely dead wrong in his assessment.

 

The media tends to portray pitchers that way. In fact, I didn't know until I looked it up today that Lincecum's fastball is arguably his worst pitch. If you listen to Buck and McCarver, they make it sound like he's throwing pure heat.

[a700hitter]

Actually Fred was dead right. His point was that you need a third pitch to be an effective starter, but he cited Lincecum and Kershaw as exceptions. If fangraphs show that Lincecum and Kershaw have 3 effective pitches, all it proves is that they are not exceptions to the rule. So, he's still right that Bard needs a 3rd pitch.

[Emmz]

Actually Fred was dead right. His point was that you need a third pitch to be an effective starter' date=' but he cited Lincecum and Kershaw as exceptions. If fangraphs show that Lincecum and Kershaw have 3 effective pitches, all it proves is that they are not exceptions to the rule. So, he's still right that Bard needs a 3rd pitch.[/quote']

 

I think thats why everyone thinks he's wrong. But yeah, he's right, just wrong about the exception.... If that makes sense.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Actually Fred was dead right. His point was that you need a third pitch to be an effective starter' date=' but he cited Lincecum and Kershaw as exceptions. If fangraphs show that Lincecum and Kershaw have 3 effective pitches, all it proves is that they are not exceptions to the rule. So, he's still right that Bard needs a 3rd pitch.[/quote']

 

Fastball. Slider. Changeup.

 

He didn't use his change last year because he didn't need to, but when he did it was very effective. Shoppach said the Rays were talking about how it was just not fair for him to use that pitch last season.

 

Bard has 3 pitches for sure. Just because he hasn't used his change up very much doesn't mean he doesn't have it.

[a700hitter]

I think thats why everyone thinks he's wrong. But yeah' date=' he's right, just wrong about the exception.... If that makes sense.[/quote']It doesn't. If anything, the fact that his cited exceptions are not exceptions prove the rule even more.

[a700hitter]

Fastball. Slider. Changeup.

 

He didn't use his change last year because he didn't need to, but when he did it was very effective. Shoppach said the Rays were talking about how it was just not fair for him to use that pitch last season.

 

Bard has 3 pitches for sure. Just because he hasn't used his change up very much doesn't mean he doesn't have it.

Papelbon had 3 pitches too. He just rarely used all three. Bard does have 3 pitches and his secondary pitches are probably more refined and consistent than Pap's pitches. However, as a starter, he is going to be able to go to all 3 with consistency.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Papelbon had 3 pitches too. He just rarely used all three. Bard does have 3 pitches and his secondary pitches are probably more refined and consistent than Pap's pitches. However' date=' as a starter, he is going to be able to go to all 3 with consistency.[/quote']

 

I agree, but I think he'll be fine. From everything he has said and everything all the coaches have said (that I've read, at least), it sounds like his secondary pitches are strong right now. I honestly think the guy is way too talented to fail at this.

[SoxFanForsyth]

It obviously doesnt mean anything, but..

 

The Sox are up 17-0, and Cody Ross has 2 HR and 5 RBI. Solid. At that rate, Ross will match last year's HR production in 7 days and the RBI production in 11 days