Red Sox 2012 Spring Training Thread.

[Emmz]

Kind of like Josh Hamilton I guess.

 

Totally different. Hamilton had the talent and the skills to be a big league talent. Miller has the raw talent, but doesn't have the fine skills and touch to harness it. It would be similar if Miller was 25, a recovering alcoholic who had a 97 mph fastball that he could actually locate, and the Sox gave him a chance to strut his stuff. Miller's already in his prime years and hasn't done anything to show he's improving.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Totally different. Hamilton had the talent and the skills to be a big league talent. Miller has the raw talent' date=' but doesn't have the fine skills and touch to harness it. It would be similar if Miller was 25, a recovering alcoholic who had a 97 mph fastball that he could actually locate, and the Sox gave him a chance to strut his stuff. Miller's already in his prime years and hasn't done anything to show he's improving.[/quote']

 

Weird.

 

I guess that's why I said...

 

Wow. Andrew Miller pumping 97 out of the gate. It's a shame his control is so inconsistent.

 

Oops. That must be overly optimistic and unrealistic.

 

The fact that you based your argument on teams giving up on players draws a perfect parallel to Hamilton. That's where the situations are extremely similar, and that was the basis of your argument.

[Emmz]

I guess that's why the Red Sox kept him on board.

 

Edit: Oops. almost forgot. LoL.

 

They also kept Darnell McDonald. What's your point? You're blathering ignorance and looking like a complete fool.

[Emmz]

Weird.

 

I guess that's why I said...

 

 

 

Oops. That must be overly optimistic and unrealistic.

 

Yup, I saw that. What's your point LOL. And how does it relate to your rather silly comparison to Hamilton?

 

You could save some face by admitting you're way off in your analysis of Miller.

[SoxFanForsyth]

They also kept Darnell McDonald. What's your point? You're blathering ignorance and looking like a complete fool.

 

Ha. That's funny you should say that. McDonald OPS'd .804 vs RHP last season, and .821 vs RHP in 2010. That's a valuable player off the bench.

 

Point is, if he is just a completely lost cause with zero hope for any future contributions, then they wouldn't have resigned him. And they also wouldn't be worried about someone claiming him off waivers if he was sent to AAA. And they also wouldn't have put a stipulation in his contract last year where the claiming team would have to pay $3mm to him in 2012.

 

But nah, none of those are relevant.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Yup, I saw that. What's your point LOL. And how does it relate to your rather silly comparison to Hamilton?

 

You could save some face by admitting you're way off in your analysis of Miller.

 

It is exactly what I said it was. You tried (unsuccessfully, I might add) to say that players who hop from team to team proves that they have no value and are hopeless.

 

Except, oops. Josh Hamilton did the same thing and then won some award in 2010, can't remember what it was though.

[SoxFanForsyth]

And lets not forget, the thing that is the absolute most hilarious part of this...

 

All I said is "Who knows if he'll ever reach his potential"

 

Hahahahaha.

 

Somehow that translates to "He's definitely going to be a stud with a little more work"

[VA Sox Fan]

Glad to have missed today's minnie "s*** storm".

 

Nice meaningless win by the Sox!!

 

Lars with the GS!

[Emmz]

Ha. That's funny you should say that. McDonald OPS'd .804 vs RHP last season, and .821 vs RHP in 2010. That's a valuable player off the bench.

 

Point is, if he is just a completely lost cause with zero hope for any future contributions, then they wouldn't have resigned him. And they also wouldn't be worried about someone claiming him off waivers if he was sent to AAA. And they also wouldn't have put a stipulation in his contract last year where the claiming team would have to pay $3mm to him in 2012.

 

But nah, none of those are relevant.

 

Yep, off the bench. And you're absolutely right, for once. That isn't relevant!

 

How does this justify your holding out hope for Miller to contribute or that he can somehow gain command of his pitches? Your logic is so flawed. He's 27 and still hasn't reached his ceiling, or even gained command of his pitches. That should be end of discussion for most people, but you just keep splitting hairs.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Yep, off the bench. And you're absolutely right, for once. That isn't relevant!

 

How does this justify your holding out hope for Miller to contribute or that he can somehow gain command of his pitches? Your logic is so flawed. He's 27 and still hasn't reached his ceiling, or even gained command of his pitches. That should be end of discussion for most people, but you just keep splitting hairs.

 

Apparently paying attention is not your strong suit.

 

Expecting and hoping are two different things. I guess you can't get that through your head because that's all you keep banging on. Relying on him to make a contribution is not realistic. Saying "Who knows if he'll ever reach his potential" and "Too bad he is so erratic"?? Ha. Saying that's "unrealistic" is laughable.

 

Again. Nobody is expecting him to contribute. I said "Who knows if he'll ever reach his potential".

 

You're just trying your damndest to make it look like I said something that I didn't. I would challenge you to find one quote from me where I said I am expecting him contribute this year, but I already know you can't because I've never made that comment.

 

All I said was ....

 

Nobody is counting on him to be a contributer. But that doesn't mean you can't hold out hope that he can figure it out.

 

I guess jumping all over someone for that comment ^^^^^ isn't being a pessimist. Oh wait.....

 

Take a look in the mirror one day. You would be shocked at what you see. You've been extremely pessimistic about it the whole time.

 

I mean seriously. Getting all over someone for saying "Hopefully he can figure it out someday"?? Are you kidding me??

 

You're a joke, Emmz. You really are. If I get banned for this little argument, that's fine. It's hardly enjoyable to even post on a thread where members jump all over you when you're just hoping for the best for one of the players.

[Emmz]

And lets not forget, the thing that is the absolute most hilarious part of this...

 

All I said is "Who knows if he'll ever reach his potential"

 

Hahahahaha.

 

Somehow that translates to "He's definitely going to be a stud with a little more work"

 

You're spinning it again.

 

He looked excellent last year at one point when he had back to back games against KC and Tex. If he can harness that' date=' he could be a top of the rotation guy. Who knows if he'll ever reach that potential though.[/quote']

 

Nice! You hold out hope of reaching his potential. Not a big deal.

 

There's just a certain point when your talent stops mattering and it's time to be realistic' date=' not just in baseball, but every sport. Miller stinks, and he's probably never going to pan out.[/quote']

 

All I said was this.

 

Then you said

 

Nobody is counting on him to be a contributer. But that doesn't mean you can't hold out hope that he can figure it out.

 

Okay, seems peaceful.

 

It's kind of like holding out hope that someday Brady Quinn or Matt Leinart might become the QBs they were projected to be.

 

In theory, you're right, it's just not very realistic after all of this time.

 

Still peaceful. I even admit you're correct in theory that anyone can technically pan out.

 

Good Lord.

 

I swear, this may be the most pessimistic this board has been since I've been here, which has only been a year and a half, but it's pretty ridiculous.

 

All we're doing is discussing Andrew Miller and how he was throwing hard and had a good outing, and how nice it would be if he ever harnessed his talent, and even that gets jumped on as if we're saying "he's going to be a #1 stud this year, no doubt about it".

 

and now it's out of hand. Somehow I was out of line disagreeing with you.

[SoxFanForsyth]

It's not disagreeing. It's the fact that all I said was "hopefully he does well" and then it's all pessimism about how he's never going to do well and he stinks and he'll never reach his potential. You know what? He probably won't, you're probably right, but wishing the best for the guy does not warrant all of the above conversation by any means.

 

Look - I still stand by my thought that hopefully he can figure it out sometime because if he does, he's got the talent to be an elite pitcher. Having said that, I probably jumped on you too much and it was just because it was the straw the broke the camels back. I even tried to say that it's not just you, but it's numerous people on this board, so I apologize for getting into it with you.

 

It's just annoying as hell when everything anyone says about this team being good this year is shot down with pessimism, and that's been happening so much ever since last September.

 

Sorry you had to take the blunt of my blow up. It's not even enjoyable to talk about the team on here when anything anyone says about them is shot down with s***-on-the-Sox posts by Pumpsie and Jackso.

 

Side note, here's a quote from McClure today that's relevant to our conversation.

 

"Obviously he was pretty good then and not too mechanical and more just competing. Keep him more simple rather than try to change a couple of things. What ever he's able to do well, just do that. Hoepfully that clears his thought process," McClure said..

 

McClure is one of several pitching coaches who have suggested all sorts of things to him.

 

"To his credit he's tried to get better by doing different things," McClure said. "The ability to sift through the information that works for you and (Bleep) the rest, is very important. Your sift mechanism has to work. The best ones are the ones committed and listen to other things.

 

"I have faith in Andrew and I think he does too," said McClure, who was a teammate of Randy Johnson, another tall lefty in Montreal.

[Emmz]

Good lord, get ahold of yourself. You're not getting banned I'm pretty sure. Just stop making yourself out to be the victim when you're the obvious aggressor.

 

You made your points for Miller and I made mine. I just don't feel like going in circles over this anymore. You keep trying to tell the audience how I perceive your POV, and you're just way off. This isn't rational behavior and I'm not going to spend my evening getting headaches.

[Emmz]

Thats fine, everyone has their blow-ups, but I'm not pessimistic about the team. This team is going to the playoffs.

[VA Sox Fan]

Thats fine' date=' everyone has their blow-ups, but I'm not pessimistic about the team. This team is going to the playoffs.[/quote']

 

No you are not at all.

 

What's with the "W" avatar? I have absolutely NO problem with it. LMAO!!

[a700hitter]

I swear' date=' half the people on this board would be thrilled if this team won 81 games this year.[/quote']Oh come on SFF. You are in the throes if youthful Spring Training optimism. I have been down that road for many years. Saying that Andrew Miller is a bust is not a terribly negative remark. He was obviously completely over rated as a prospect when people started drawing comparisons to the Big Unit. They were way off. I don't know how you jump from a remark that Miller is a bust to an accusation that some fans would be happy to win 81 games.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Oh come on SFF. You are in the throes if youthful Spring Training optimism. I have been down that road for many years. Saying that Andrew Miller is a bust is not a terribly negative remark. He was obviously completely over rated as a prospect when people started drawing comparisons to the Big Unit. They were way off. I don't know how you jump from a remark that Miller is a bust to an accusation that some fans would be happy to win 81 games.

 

It's not just that comment, and in fact, that had little to do with it. It's just been an extremely pessimistic board lately. It seems like anyone that is optimistic about the season is constantly fighting for their opinion.

[Emmz]

No you are not at all.

 

What's with the "W" avatar? I have absolutely NO problem with it. LMAO!!

 

Just having fun with it. I needed a break from Boxxy. I am not commenting on Dubya himself, positively or negatively.

[VA Sox Fan]

Just having fun with it. I needed a break from Boxxy. I am not commenting on Dubya himself' date=' positively or negatively.[/quote']

 

I love it!! Better than our current pres.

[JacobyLester]

Gggrrrr, I have a clip of the guy falling out of the stands today but I can't post the link until I have enough posts, lol.

[a700hitter]

It's not just you, Emmz. It's a lot of people, and it's annoying as hell. I don't think I've seen 1 positive post about this team.

They just played their first exhibition game today and the starters only played half the game, so their isn't a lot to say one way or the other. I did make a positive comment about Salty's footwork and release on steal attempts. There is nothing to gush about yet.

[a700hitter]

Just having fun with it. I needed a break from Boxxy. I am not commenting on Dubya himself' date=' positively or negatively.[/quote']Earlier in the day you had O'Reilly as your avatar and now you have Dubya. Did I miss anything in between?

[Emmz]

Earlier in the day you had O'Reilly as your avatar and now you have Dubya. Did I miss anything in between?

 

Just wasn't feelin' O'Reilly. It was kind of a grainy picture.

[SoxFanForsyth]

They just played their first exhibition game today and the starters only played half the game' date=' so their isn't a lot to say one way or the other. I did make a positive comment about Salty's footwork and release on steal attempts. There is nothing to gush about yet.[/quote']

 

It's been all offseason. I don't want to get into it anymore, but it seems like ever since September, this team and the FO are all a bunch of no talent bums according to some of the posters.

[VA Sox Fan]

Just wasn't feelin' O'Reilly. It was kind of a grainy picture.

 

[a700hitter]

It's been all offseason. I don't want to get into it anymore' date=' but it seems like ever since September, this team and the FO are all a bunch of no talent bums according to some of the posters.[/quote']There's nothing positive to say about the players in the off season. The players don't do anything in the off season to be praised or criticized. The only thing to be discussed in the off season are the player transactions by the FO, and we didn't have a lot of those.

 

What did you think of Melancon today? I really didn't think much of his velocity. He hit 90 and that was it. I was disappointed. We need him to replace Bard in the 8th inning. That's a tall order and 90 mph ain't gonna get it done.

[a700hitter]

Beckett must have dropped some weight. In the post game press conference, his face didn't look bloated like it was last year.

[SoxFanForsyth]

There's nothing positive to say about the players in the off season. The players don't do anything in the off season to be praised or criticized. The only thing to be discussed in the off season are the player transactions by the FO, and we didn't have a lot of those.

 

What did you think of Melancon today? I really didn't think much of his velocity. He hit 90 and that was it. I was disappointed. We need him to replace Bard in the 8th inning. That's a tall order and 90 mph ain't gonna get it done.

 

Thought his stuff wasn't very crisp as well. I don't think he was pumping max velocity, a lot like Beckett. Just getting some work in. Regardless, I would never say I was impressed with his outing. But I'm still trying to get a feel for him as a pitcher.

[VA Sox Fan]

Beckett must have dropped some weight. In the post game press conference' date=' his face didn't look bloated like it was last year.[/quote']

 

Yes he has. Pretty obvious. Good to see.

[a700hitter]

Thought his stuff wasn't very crisp as well. I don't think he was pumping max velocity' date=' a lot like Beckett. Just getting some work in. Regardless, I would never say I was impressed with his outing. But I'm still trying to get a feel for him as a pitcher.[/quote']When Bard was in the pen, he came into the Spring Training games pumping gas. What other pitches does Melancon have? Any secondary pitches that are plus pitches? Jacko posted a while back that his velocity is not that great for a late inning guy.