Expectations for Saltalamacchia?

[Dojji]

Looks like we know who our starting catcher is for next year -- and probably for the next few. The franchise I don't think has formally committed to Salty, but he's probably going to be the guy who gets 400 at bats from the catcher's spot this year unless something goes seriously wrong.

 

Honestly, I'm not that worried myself. Salty made a lot of progress last year and I wouldn't call him great, but he's a big league catcher if he can hold onto it. His arm improved, which used to be a huge problem for him. People still run on him too much, but he made it not cost effective for them to do so last year, throwing out 31% so I expect them to do it less next year

 

He struggled blocking the plate, leading the league in passed balls, but he also caught Wake. With Wake out of the equation I expect that passed ball count to halve. And while he's not Tek level smart, he's not a stupid catcher either, his game calling is what I'd call a tick above average. I'll expect him to improve there with experience.

 

Offensively, there isn't a lot not to like. Good offensive catchers are rare and wonderful things. Salty isn't good, but he is decent, .730 OPS and 16 HR's from the catcher's spot is not chopped liver. And he definitely has the raw offensive talent to do much better than that.

 

We're counting on the kid to take strides to being a player who can really succeed where Tek left off, but even if he's pretty much the Salty of last year, that's still better than average among MLB starting catchers so I'll take it. And if he breaks out and becomes the .800 OPS 20-25 HR guy he has the ceiling to be? Look out.

[a700hitter]

Looks like we know who our starting catcher is for next year -- and probably for the next few. The franchise I don't think has formally committed to Salty, but he's probably going to be the guy who gets 400 at bats from the catcher's spot this year unless something goes seriously wrong.

 

Honestly, I'm not that worried myself. Salty made a lot of progress last year and I wouldn't call him great, but he's a big league catcher if he can hold onto it. His arm improved, which used to be a huge problem for him. People still run on him too much, but he made it not cost effective for them to do so last year, throwing out 31% so I expect them to do it less next year

 

He struggled blocking the plate, leading the league in passed balls, but he also caught Wake. With Wake out of the equation I expect that passed ball count to halve. And while he's not Tek level smart, he's not a stupid catcher either, his game calling is what I'd call a tick above average. I'll expect him to improve there with experience.

 

Offensively, there isn't a lot not to like. Good offensive catchers are rare and wonderful things. Salty isn't good, but he is decent, .730 OPS and 16 HR's from the catcher's spot is not chopped liver. And he definitely has the raw offensive talent to do much better than that.

 

We're counting on the kid to take strides to being a player who can really succeed where Tek left off, but even if he's pretty much the Salty of last year, that's still better than average among MLB starting catchers so I'll take it.

He can't catch --Wakefield or anyone else. He blocks pitches in the dirt poorly. His throwing release and footwork are slow. His throwing accuracy is erratic. His game calling ability will become more obvious as this will become his staff in 2012, not Tek's. I am undecided about this aspect of his game. His offensive production is okay, except he k's too much. Overall, he is an adequate placeholder for 2012.

[Dojji]

Question: If he's a placeholder, who is he holding place for?

[a700hitter]

Question: If he's a placeholder' date=' who is he holding place for?[/quote']TBA

[redsoxfan3]

I don't have big expectations for Salty, but he is the best catcher we have at this point. I hope that he can just do a decent enough job for this team so that we are competitive. I think that the organization is holding out hopes that Lavarnway really has another solid year in AAA. My hopes are that Lavarnway can improve defensively and within the next two or three years that he can become our future catcher. I know he projects as a better big league DH, but I really am hoping that he can prove that he can play in the majors as a catcher.

[Dojji]

Depends on just how much of a catcher he needs to be. He could probably be a bad catcher who makes up for it at the plate pretty much right now. IF he needs to be solid defensively, I dunno if he'll get there.

 

I think the best you're going to get from Lavs is a Victor Martinez type. A guy who plays catcher because that's the best way to get his bat in the lineup. Maybe a bit below average in a good year. but good enough offensively that catching purists just deal with it.

[a700hitter]

Depends on just how much of a catcher he needs to be. He could probably be a bad catcher who makes up for it at the plate pretty much right now. IF he needs to be solid defensively, I dunno if he'll get there.

 

I think the best you're going to get from Lavs is a Victor Martinez type. A guy who plays catcher because that's the best way to get his bat in the lineup. Maybe a bit below average in a good year. but good enough offensively that catching purists just deal with it.

VMart could be tolerated behind the dish, because he was a beast with the lumber in his hands. Salty is no offensive beast.

[Dojji]

I tried to make it clear I was talking about Lavarnway.

[ORS]

I expect him to be tall again this year.

[User Name]

I expect him to be tall again this year.

 

Adequate?

[a700hitter]

I tried to make it clear I was talking about Lavarnway.

Yes, my bad. Distracted reading on my part. Yes, Lavs could be a beast with the bat.

[jung]

I think that eventually Lavarnway will be a better receiver than Salty and appears to have a better arm. From where they are today I think Larvarnway will pass Salty as a defensive catcher.

 

I simply have no feel for either as yet from the perspective of handling pitchers. It is very difficult for a young catcher wether its Lavarnway or Salty to handle that role with a staff full of big league veteran pitchers.

 

Somebody just about has to help the young catcher through that transition. Salty had Tek but no telling how he will do this year. Even though he is new to the club, Shoppach will likely provide some help in that regard.

[User Name]

.255/.338/.460 .798 OPS, 20 HR.

 

Gets traded at mid/off season.

[Emmz]

I don't have high expectations for Lavs because he's proven f*** all. Salty can hit okay, and thats it. I hold out hope Lavs is actually what everyone expects, because I'm sure as s*** tired of seeing a .750 OPS out there, who strikes out a lot, getting praise as a good offensive catcher. He's adequate, but I'd rather he hit a new stride, and was at least good defensively, or better offensively. Its frustrating to watch catchers who are just "adequate" every day. Or worse, suck at all aspects. At least they don't have those bums who filled in for Mauer starting over 100 games.

[Emmz]

.255/.338/.460 .798 OPS, 20 HR.

 

Gets traded at mid/off season.

 

I would definitely live with that production.

[Emmz]

LOL Drew Butera had a OPS+ of 24 and started 93 games. Makes Salty seem a lot more attractive.

[Bellhorn04]

On the offensive side, Salty and Shoppach could be a very good platoon. Salty was 247/304/481 against RH with 11 HR and 18 2B in 243 AB. Shoppach was 241/344/444 against LH with 7 HR in 108 AB.

[User Name]

Shoppach also owns Fat Sabby.

[kapsis21]

Shoppach also owns Fat Sabby.

 

quote of the day... :thumbsup:

[mvp 78]

I think he'll be about league average and his production should trend slightly upward. 90% of the board will want him tossed off the Tobin.

[seabeachfred]

I don't have high expectations for Lavs because he's proven f*** all. Salty can hit okay' date=' and thats it. I hold out hope Lavs is actually what everyone expects, because I'm sure as s*** tired of seeing a .750 OPS out there, who strikes out a lot, getting praise as a good offensive catcher. He's adequate, but I'd rather he hit a new stride, and was at least good defensively, or better offensively. Its frustrating to watch catchers who are just "adequate" every day. Or worse, suck at all aspects. At least they don't have those bums who filled in for Mauer starting over 100 games.[/quote']

 

I take it Emmz that you meant Salty when you said he's a proven f*** all......Hard to understand if you meant Lavarnway since you also hold out hope that Ryan is what everybody expects. Here's what I expect....If the Sox don't over-season him to death and rot him in the minors as they did to Youkilis until he was 27, I see Lavarnway pushing Salty by the end of the season, and either being the catcher or DH in 2013. I also see him being a 30 homer and 100 RBI hitter. Yes, I hold very high hopes and even a higher regard for him. I believe Ryan is going to be an outstanding Red Sox for many years.

[SCM33]

I take it Emmz that you meant Salty when you said he's a proven f*** all......Hard to understand if you meant Lavarnway since you also hold out hope that Ryan is what everybody expects. Here's what I expect....If the Sox don't over-season him to death and rot him in the minors as they did to Youkilis until he was 27' date=' I see Lavarnway pushing Salty by the end of the season, and either being the catcher or DH in 2013. I also see him being a 30 homer and 100 RBI hitter. Yes, I hold very high hopes and even a higher regard for him. I believe Ryan is going to be an outstanding Red Sox for many years.[/quote']

 

Youkils was held back til he was 27 because there were better options.

 

In 2002, Youk was in his second season in pro ball. We had Hillenbrand at the time.

 

In 2003, 2004 and 2005 we had Billy Mueller.

 

In 2006 Youk finally cracked the lineup at 1B.

 

Lavarnway has nothing/nobody holding him back. He will get every opportunity to start this year at the age of 24 and hes already done more at the minor league level than Salty in 600 less AB's.

[seabeachfred]

Youkils was held back til he was 27 because there were better options.

 

In 2002, Youk was in his second season in pro ball. We had Hillenbrand at the time.

 

In 2003, 2004 and 2005 we had Billy Mueller.

 

In 2006 Youk finally cracked the lineup at 1B.

 

Lavarnway has nothing/nobody holding him back. He will get every opportunity to start this year at the age of 24 and hes already done more at the minor league level than Salty in 600 less AB's.

 

Good to see someone on the same with me on this guy SCM. It could be a tad over the top but I see him as a possible Mike Piazza type. Already he has a strong arm and threw out a good percentage of runners last season and his power and hitting is already about ML level. They say he has to work on his receiving but the young man is college educated and intelligent and to me it should only be a matter of time before he takes over at catcher---at the very least takes over at DH next year. Personally I think he already blocks balls better than Salty and I think it would show Red Sox progress to see both he and Will Middlebrooks in the same lineup next season---Third Base and Catcher. I think Youk could take over at DH and be a reserve lB and 3B. It would give us more flexibility and maneuverability that what we currently have.

[Emmz]

I take it Emmz that you meant Salty when you said he's a proven f*** all......Hard to understand if you meant Lavarnway since you also hold out hope that Ryan is what everybody expects. Here's what I expect....If the Sox don't over-season him to death and rot him in the minors as they did to Youkilis until he was 27' date=' I see Lavarnway pushing Salty by the end of the season, and either being the catcher or DH in 2013. I also see him being a 30 homer and 100 RBI hitter. Yes, I hold very high hopes and even a higher regard for him. I believe Ryan is going to be an outstanding Red Sox for many years.[/quote']

 

Yeah, because Lavs has really proven his worth at the major league level. Who the f*** hasn't hit a homer off Scott Baker?

 

Regardless, Salty has at least proven he can be a decent hitter. Lavs has not proven a damn thing at the majors. There's a difference between high marks on a scouting report and actually achieving that potential in the majors.

 

Your opinion on his ceiling doesn't mean he's proven f*** all at the majors. I think he's legit too, doesn't change that.

[SoxSport]

My expectations are positive. Why? Because the kid tries hard--and he will be better this year because of it. He has the size. I also like Lavarnway, and maybe they'll push each other. I also would like to see Tek in the bullpen as a presence and mentor.

[seabeachfred]

Yeah, because Lavs has really proven his worth at the major league level. Who the f*** hasn't hit a homer off Scott Baker?

 

Regardless, Salty has at least proven he can be a decent hitter. Lavs has not proven a damn thing at the majors. There's a difference between high marks on a scouting report and actually achieving that potential in the majors.

 

Your opinion on his ceiling doesn't mean he's proven f*** all at the majors. I think he's legit too, doesn't change that.

 

For your edification EMMZ, Ryan started the last two games of the season and hit two homers. I think that's a pretty good indication he might be able to hit ML pitching. He just took one into outer space today in his first at-bat. As far as Salty is concerned he was crapola early in the year when we were in a funk or even crappier at the end when we choked record level big time. He also has trouble throwing out batters and blocking pitchers---or have you missed that up there in Minnesottahhh?. We'll just disagree on this one but I will simply inform you from my experience in scouting.....Lavarnway, if not misused, is going to be a terrific ballplayer for the Red Sox---a solid 30 homer, 100 RBI man. Take that to the bank.

[redsoxfan3]

Yeah, because Lavs has really proven his worth at the major league level. Who the f*** hasn't hit a homer off Scott Baker?

 

Regardless, Salty has at least proven he can be a decent hitter. Lavs has not proven a damn thing at the majors. There's a difference between high marks on a scouting report and actually achieving that potential in the majors.

 

Your opinion on his ceiling doesn't mean he's proven f*** all at the majors. I think he's legit too, doesn't change that.

 

Define your definition of decent. Salty has a career BA of .244. He hit .235 last year for the Sox. In my opinion, those numbers are not that decent. We can get by with his production, but I think Lavarnway is the better of the two offensively, hands down.

 

Lavarnway has power. He showed that he can hit major league competition. Yes, it was a small sample because he does not have much experience. Lavarnway has proven that he has power in the major leagues. He hit two homeruns in one game. Do we know if he can do that on a consistent basis? No we do not. But don't say he hasn't proven anything, because it is not an easy task for any MLB player to hit two homers in one game.

[User Name]

For your edification EMMZ' date=' Ryan started the last two games of the season and hit two homers. I think that's a pretty good indication he might be able to hit ML pitching. He just took one into outer space today in his first at-bat. [/quote']

 

Three words: Small Sample Size.

 

Daniel Nava came up to the leagues and spent his first month setting it on fire. You can deduce nothing about a player from 39 AB's. Even worse, he had a .738 OPS in those 39 AB's, meaning you are contradicting your own argument by drawing conclusions from here.

 

Don't get me wrong here, i think Lavarnway's hitting skills are legit. It's rare to find his type of power-patience combo, and power translates to every level when it's as pronounced as Ryan's, however, one cannot realistically assure he is ready for the big show full time.

 

As far as Salty is concerned he was crapola early in the year when we were in a funk or even crappier at the end when we choked record level big time. He also has trouble throwing out batters and blocking pitchers---or have you missed that up there in Minnesottahhh?. We'll just disagree on this one but I will simply inform you from my experience in scouting.....Lavarnway, if not misused, is going to be a terrific ballplayer for the Red Sox---a solid 30 homer, 100 RBI man. Take that to the bank.

 

You keep mentioning your "experience" scouting, but you haven't scouted Ryan Lavarnway, and neither have any of us. We are regurgitating information from actual scouts and what little exposure we've had regarding his abilities.

 

According to those scouts, he could probably (notice probably) hit Major League pitching right now, but he needs a lot of work defensively, and needs time before he becomes a regular MLB catcher (what the Red Sox view him as, not a DH). What you're doing here is nothing but a bunch of assumptions and leaps of faith, specially given the fact that you're projecting actual counting stats.

 

As for Salty, he has his shortcomings, but he is at least adequate. That is a claim that cannot be made about Lavarnway until he proves it at the MLB level, and the Red Sox are doing the right thing by bringing him along slowly so he has every opportunity to succeed.

[User Name]

Define your definition of decent. Salty has a career BA of .244. He hit .235 last year for the Sox. In my opinion, those numbers are not that decent. We can get by with his production, but I think Lavarnway is the better of the two offensively, hands down.

 

Lavarnway has power. He showed that he can hit major league competition. Yes, it was a small sample because he does not have much experience. Lavarnway has proven that he has power in the major leagues. He hit two homeruns in one game. Do we know if he can do that on a consistent basis? No we do not. But don't say he hasn't proven anything, because it is not an easy task for any MLB player to hit two homers in one game.

 

By catcher standards, Salty was slightly above average last year. That is "decent". And you have to look at positional standards when evaluating players.

 

As for the rest of your post, Lavarnway has 39 At Bats at the Major League Level. While by all accounts, his production will be there, he has proven nothing.

[Emmz]

Define your definition of decent. Salty has a career BA of .244. He hit .235 last year for the Sox. In my opinion, those numbers are not that decent. We can get by with his production, but I think Lavarnway is the better of the two offensively, hands down.

 

Lavarnway has power. He showed that he can hit major league competition. Yes, it was a small sample because he does not have much experience. Lavarnway has proven that he has power in the major leagues. He hit two homeruns in one game. Do we know if he can do that on a consistent basis? No we do not. But don't say he hasn't proven anything, because it is not an easy task for any MLB player to hit two homers in one game.

 

OPS was around .750, which is decent for a catcher. Most catchers are closer to Drew Butera than they are to Joe Mauer or Vic Martinez.

 

BA isnt a very good stat to go off of.