Cody Ross

[Dojji]

I disagree...and so do the Rockies. Why would they have taken on Scutaro's contract when they could have had Theriot for about a sixth the price? Theriot is without a team for a reason. He is not very good. He barely plays defense well enough to cover second base and his offense has been on the decline.

 

Scutaro is a much better player than Theriot.

 

Scoot has a bit more power than Theriot. That's really the only difference.

 

As for why he's still out there, Theriot is exactly the kind of guy that goes late in the offseason when teams are looking for finishing touches or plugging holes at the last minute. He'll find a job in the big leagues before the end of the offseason, believe you me.

[User Name]

Scutaro has more power. better OBP, and is treated better by every possible defensive measure than Theriot. Scutaro is head and shoulders better than Theriot. No need to rationalize it. Saying otherwise is simply inaccurate.

[redsoxfan3]

I disagree...and so do the Rockies. Why would they have taken on Scutaro's contract when they could have had Theriot for about a sixth the price? Theriot is without a team for a reason. He is not very good. He barely plays defense well enough to cover second base and his offense has been on the decline.

 

Scutaro is a much better player than Theriot.

 

Career numbers:

Scutaro- .270 BA, .338 OBP, .389 SLG

Theriot- .282 BA, ,344 OBP, .353 SLG

 

Scutaro's power numbers are better, but in terms of getting on base and average they are pretty close. Theriot actually holds better career lines in those two aspects. Theriot has more speed, although I do admit the last two years he hasn't really been a threat to steal on the base paths. Offensively Scutaro has more power, but they are pretty close in comparison. Scutaro had one of the best years of his career last year and it might be hard for him to duplicate that.

 

Both Scutaro and Theriot have played different positions in the Majors, but looking at SS, Scutaro holds a career fielding % of .974 and Theriot holds a career fielding % of .972. Obviously there are more factors to playing defense than fielding %, but the point I am trying to make is that Scutaro is not all that much better than Theriot. I would take Scutaro over Theriot if money was not an issue, but if I can get Theriot for 3 or 4 million less, than I will take Theriot. I feel that Theriot will add more depth to this team.

 

I would love for Theriot and Aviles to split time at SS, with Aviles also getting some time at 3B. I do believe that we will be fine with Aviles and Punto, I was just thinking a cheap signing like Theriot would be a boost to depth on this team. Instead of having Scutaro, Aviles, and Lowrie like we had last year, we would have Aviles, Punto, and Theriot. I think we will be fine without Theriot though.

[Spitball]

Scoot has a bit more power than Theriot. That's really the only difference.

 

Never really all that good,Theriot's offense has not been the same since he left Wrigley Field where he OPSed nearly 100 points higher at home. In the last three years he has OPSed .712, .633, and .662. Scutaro in that time has OPSed .789, .721, and .781.

 

Defensively, Scutaro is a much better defender. The Cardinals tried Theriot at shortstop, but he was terrible. They didn't really start playing well as a team until they moved him out and put aging Furcal there. Theriot ranked at the bottom or near the bottom in every defensive metric last year for shortstops.

 

Theriot is more Don Buddin than Marco Scutaro.

 

As for why he's still out there' date=' Theriot is exactly the kind of guy that goes late in the offseason when teams are looking for finishing touches or plugging holes at the last minute. He'll find a job in the big leagues before the end of the offseason, believe you me.[/quote']

 

He might have a job...I just hope it isn't in Boston.

[User Name]

Career numbers:

Scutaro- .270 BA, .338 OBP, .389 SLG

Theriot- .282 BA, ,344 OBP, .353 SLG

 

Scutaro's power numbers are better, but in terms of getting on base and average they are pretty close. Theriot actually holds better career lines in those two aspects. Theriot has more speed, although I do admit the last two years he hasn't really been a threat to steal on the base paths. Offensively Scutaro has more power, but they are pretty close in comparison. Scutaro had one of the best years of his career last year and it might be hard for him to duplicate that.

 

Both Scutaro and Theriot have played different positions in the Majors, but looking at SS, Scutaro holds a career fielding % of .974 and Theriot holds a career fielding % of .972. Obviously there are more factors to playing defense than fielding %, but the point I am trying to make is that Scutaro is not all that much better than Theriot. I would take Scutaro over Theriot if money was not an issue, but if I can get Theriot for 3 or 4 million less, than I will take Theriot. I feel that Theriot will add more depth to this team.

 

I would love for Theriot and Aviles to split time at SS, with Aviles also getting some time at 3B. I do believe that we will be fine with Aviles and Punto, I was just thinking a cheap signing like Theriot would be a boost to depth on this team. Instead of having Scutaro, Aviles, and Lowrie like we had last year, we would have Aviles, Punto, and Theriot. I think we will be fine without Theriot though.

 

Theriot has significantly declined over the past couple of years, he has no power, and he's a minus defender. Career numbers are irrelevant when trends contradict them:

 

Marco Scutaro last three years: .761 OPS, 102 OPS+

 

Ryan Theriot last three years:.673 OPS, 76 OPS+

[Spitball]

Career numbers:

Scutaro- .270 BA, .338 OBP, .389 SLG

Theriot- .282 BA, ,344 OBP, .353 SLG

 

Career numbers can be misleading. Theriot has offensively been trending downward. Scutaro has been trending upward. Look at the last three years.

 

I have to run but will talk about this later if the topic is still going. Google Cardinal forums or articles on the guy. He did not play well there last season.

[Spitball]

Theriot has significantly declined over the past couple of years, he has no power, and he's a minus defender. Career numbers are irrelevant when trends contradict them:

 

Marco Scutaro last three years: .761 OPS, 102 OPS+

 

Ryan Theriot last three years:.673 OPS, 76 OPS+

 

This. You type faster, User.

[a700hitter]

One reason we will miss Scutaro is that he could hit Mo Rivera. We don't have too many guys that can do that. There aren't too many SS that can hit Mo. Scut played hard and smart.

[redsoxfan3]

One reason we will miss Scutaro is that he could hit Mo Rivera. We don't have too many guys that can do that. There aren't too many SS that can hit Mo. Scut played hard and smart.

 

You guys prove some good points that I cannot disagree with. I especially agree with him playing hard and smart.

[BSN07]

One reason we will miss Scutaro is that he could hit Mo Rivera. We don't have too many guys that can do that. There aren't too many SS that can hit Mo. Scut played hard and smart.

 

Yes, we will miss those 10 Ab's a year

[Dojji]

We got a career year out of Scutaro last year. Don't kid yourself that that's going to repeat. He had a good little run in the AL that we couldn't have expected. That's nice. To pretend that you can count on him to continue that is to be inexcusably naive.

 

And above all, don't fool yourself about Scutaro's defense. Defensively he really wasn't ever that good, or he'd have been a starter a lot sooner in his career. Scoot and Theroit are pretty much the same guy defensively by any metric you care to use. Average overall, a bit above or below that in any given year, but easily less than 1 win a year from replacement either way.

 

Scoot is incrementally better than Theriot across the board except in batting average but really, the differencers are inconsequential taken as a whole, you have to be seriously splitting hairs to even worry about anything other than the SLG.

[a700hitter]

Yes' date=' we will miss those 10 Ab's a year [/quote']Your sarcasm aside, but when Mo is in the game, the game is usually close and hanging in the balance. One or two for those ABs could help turn defeat into victory. We missed the playoffs last year by 1 win. Those ABs against Mo should not be minimized.

[BSN07]

Your sarcasm aside' date=' but when Mo is in the game, the game is usually close and hanging in the balance. One or two for those ABs could help turn defeat into victory. We missed the playoffs last year by 1 win. Those ABs against Mo should not be minimized.[/quote']

 

I'm not minimizing. I'm just saying you don't keep someone around because of what he may do in 10 AB's.

 

I am very happy to see you picking up on my sarcasm way better then you used to

[a700hitter]

I'm not minimizing. I'm just saying you don't keep someone around because of what he may do in 10 AB's.

 

I am very happy to see you picking up on my sarcasm way better then you used to

The smiley faces help me pick up the sarcasm. I realize that you don't keep a guy around just to face one pitcher, but overall, he was a solid smart player with a good stick for a SS. I was just mentioning some of the things that we will miss him about him. If dumping his salary- and make no mistake that this really wasn't a trade- means that we stay under the LT cap and get a starter, I am good with that. If we will be going over the cap anyway, I don't get the move even if the accounting counts his $6 million as $7.6 million. I don't think it is a smart move to dump your every day SS when the replacements within the organization are not comparable IMO.

[User Name]

We got a career year out of Scutaro last year. Don't kid yourself that that's going to repeat. He had a good little run in the AL that we couldn't have expected. That's nice. To pretend that you can count on him to continue that is to be inexcusably naive.

 

And above all, don't fool yourself about Scutaro's defense. Defensively he really wasn't ever that good, or he'd have been a starter a lot sooner in his career. Scoot and Theroit are pretty much the same guy defensively by any metric you care to use. Average overall, a bit above or below that in any given year, but easily less than 1 win a year from replacement either way.

 

Scoot is incrementally better than Theriot across the board except in batting average but really, the differencers are inconsequential taken as a whole, you have to be seriously splitting hairs to even worry about anything other than the SLG.

 

This is downright absurd. Scutaro is significantly better than Theriot. It's not even a discussion.

[iortiz]

The smiley faces help me pick up the sarcasm. I realize that you don't keep a guy around just to face one pitcher' date=' but overall, he was a solid smart player with a good stick for a SS. I was just mentioning some of the things why we will miss him. [b']If dumping his salary- and make no mistake that this really wasn't a trade- means that we stay under the LT cap and get a starter, I am good with that. If we will be going over the cap anyway, I don't get the move even if the accountng counts his $6 million as $7.6 million. I don't think it is a smart move to dump your every day SS when the replacements within the organization are not compaarable IMO[/b].

 

Totally agree. I've been saying all this over and over again.

 

Ben says that he has a budget, fine. We have capitalized part of Scu's money with Ross, fine. But a solid, healthy everyday SS is not easy to find out these days. I do really expect that we finally sign a SP (That's what I've been waiting since before the 2011 trade deadline). I like Ross and Ortiz but if we go like this I will not be pleased, and mostly if we are already over the cap.

[a700hitter]

Totally agree. I've been saying all this over and over again.

 

Ben says that he has a budget, fine. We have capitalized part of Scu's money with Ross, fine. But a solid, healthy everyday SS is not easy to find out these days. I do really expect that we finally sign a SP (That's what I've been waiting since before the 2011 trade deadline) I like Ross and Ortiz but if we go like this I will not be pleased, and mostly if we are already over the cap.

A RH platoon OFer is easier to find than an SS with a good stick.

[iortiz]

A RH platoon OFer is easier to find than an SS with a good stick.

 

If we sign Oswalt/Jackson/Floyd (depending on what prospects we give up) I'll give Ben an A (Scu/Ortiz moves), otherwise I'll give him a D and if you rush me a F.

 

If the money was the show stopper and/or considering the moves that Ben already made, I would let Ortiz walk, I would keep Scu and I would sign Buerhle (60/4) (Plan B Kuroda/Oswalt @ 10 M) and Ross (3).

 

Current

 

Ortiz (+-14)

Ross (3)

(They are offering 6+ to Oswalt/Jackson)

 

BL +-23

 

Mine

 

Scu (7.5)

Buehrle (15)

Ross (3)

 

BL 25.5

 

... and Lav to DH

[Spudboy]

One reason we will miss Scutaro is that he could hit Mo Rivera. We don't have too many guys that can do that. There aren't too many SS that can hit Mo. Scut played hard and smart.

 

I agree. Plus he played hurt and with heart. We don't see that to often either.

 

You may recall that I was against signing the guy. Especially when Gonzales went to the Jays for cheap money. I must say that I always enjoyed watching Scutaro play for my team.

[Spudboy]

This is downright absurd. Scutaro is significantly better than Theriot. It's not even a discussion.

 

Where the f*** is my popcorn?

[a700hitter]

If we sign Oswalt/Jackson/Floyd (depending on what prospects we give up) I'll give Ben an A (Scu/Ortiz moves), otherwise I'll give him a D and if you rush me a F.

 

If the money was the show stopper and/or considering the moves that Ben already made, I would let Ortiz walk, I would keep Scu and I would sign Buerhle (60/4) (Plan B Kuroda/Oswalt @ 10 M) and Ross (3).

 

Current

 

Ortiz (+-14)

Ross (3)

(They are offering 6+ to Oswalt/Jackson)

 

BL +-23

 

Mine

 

Scu (7.5)

Buehrle (15)

Ross (3)

 

BL 25.5

 

... and Lav to DH

That would have been a good way to go, but they got greedy hoping Ortiz would turn down arbitration and they would also get 2 draft choices. He crossed them up and accepted the arb and threw a wrench into their 2012 plan.

[User Name]

Where the f*** is my popcorn?

 

Hey, that would break your low-carb diet wouldn't it?

[seabeachfred]

I disagree...and so do the Rockies. Why would they have taken on Scutaro's contract when they could have had Theriot for about a sixth the price? Theriot is without a team for a reason. He is not very good. He barely plays defense well enough to cover second base and his offense has been on the decline.

 

Scutaro is a much better player than Theriot.

 

That's a good question Spitball and you supplied your own answer which was spot-on. Theriot is a below average ballplayer who is mediocre in the field and is a lousy and undiscipline hitter when a key hit is needed. I live out here in the LA area and watched this guy on TV when he played for the Dodgers. He was hesitant in getting to the ball, and at the plate was terrific when no one was on base. When it came time for a key hit he went fishing for anything thrown within the vicinity of home plate. He is a choker and couldn't carry Scutaro's jock. Go with Aviles; at least that man is a gamer and an overachieving type of player.

[a700hitter]

Theriot is streaky. He hasn't demonstrated enough consistency to remain as a starter. If he played every day, his numbers would compare even less favorably to Scutaro.

[BSN07]

Don't get me wrong. Scutaro was by far Theo's best SS signing. He just became expendable at this point with Aviles/Punto/Iglesias being able to provide comparable production. I think Scutaro will have a solid season in Colorado. I think 2B will be less demanding for him. I also agree if they don't get a SP between now and the deadline then it wasn't exactly a necessary move.

[FredLynn]

Cody Ross sucks. Another warm body obtained during a rebuilding year. Thats all it is.

Keep under the cap. Thats whats most important.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Cody Ross sucks. Another warm body obtained during a rebuilding year. Thats all it is.

Keep under the cap. Thats whats most important.

 

LT calc is already projected at $185-190 by Alex Speier of WEEI, and he knows his s***.

[FredLynn]

LT calc is already projected at $185-190 by Alex Speier of WEEI' date=' and he knows his s***.[/quote']

 

Maybe. I posted earlier that salaries for the upcoming year, and is close. I don't think its a given that we will go over the cap. If we do, and if its not for pitching, then the management is penny pinching and stupid.

[Spudboy]

f*** the"LT".

 

Why should I care what penalties those rich **********s have to pay for their greed.

[FredLynn]

f*** the"LT".

 

Why should I care what penalties those rich **********s have to pay for their greed.

 

Because their greed is going to produce a losing team this year. Any Sox fan wants a great team every year. Factoring in the greed of our BILLIONAIRE owners is an unpleasant necessity.