Valentine's Big Mouth

[Elktonnick]

I agree that players need to be accountable. I agree that Carl should call Valentine back.

 

I disagree about Valentine going to the media with this. That is the completely wrong approach IMO, and will end up alienating players more than it will help.

 

As MVP said, this needs to be left in house.

 

That's not the way it happened. Valentine was asked repeatedly over several days whether he talked to CC. It was out there that when he first called him Carl was unavailble. It was the followup question several days later about whter CC had returned his call yet. In my view from the interview that I saw BV tried to downplay it. He couldn't avoid the question and not say anything or that would have made things worse. If CC is such a dope and after several weeks still hasn't spoken to his manager whose fault is that, cretainly not BV's. The onus is on Carl, I just think he is too dumb to realize it.

[Muggah]

I agree. Valentine's doing things the right way, IMO. And he's handling things the exact way ownership was hoping he would. There's too many prima donnas on this roster who have gotten so used to having a manager cover up their insipid, self-centered behavior that they truly believe that's way things are supposed to go. Well it's too bad, those days are over. The wall of secrecy between players and the public has been obliterated by the addition of Valentine and the sooner they wake up, realize it, and change accordingly the better off they'll be. Anyone (including these malcontents) who thinks they're gonna win a mental battle of wits against a guy like Valentine needs their head examined.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

I'm glad Bobby V said something to the media. If you don't do things right you absolutely deserved to get called out on it. If they don't like being called out on it then they have 2 choices, they can improve themselves, or they can continue being stubborn and all that garbage and get a one way ticket out of town to some s*** team somewhere. They'll end up regretting it when they are playing for the Astros in front of 500 people while their teammates who gave a damn and acted like professionals are competing for a pennant and maybe even a championship. Or they can end up like Manny, going around looking for any team who'd take them for any amount.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Baseball needs an injection of the real world to it. Enough of these guys living some cushy fantasy where they can get away with whatever they want.

[mvp 78]

Baseball needs an injection of the real world to it. Enough of these guys living some cushy fantasy where they can get away with whatever they want.

 

That's going to really help bring in FA's.

[Elktonnick]

That's going to really help bring in FA's.

 

I don't think that will be a significant issue considering the circumstances.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

That's going to really help bring in FA's.

 

It's something that needs to be done across all of MLB though. Teams need to stop taking crap from these guys. Is it really fine for teams to be spending tons of money on guys and then put up with them half assing it and throwing hissy fits? If they can't sign with anyone they will think twice. Or they can go to Japan and play for less money.

 

This is all unrealistic, I know that.

 

But I think if done right there can be a way to reprimand these players and get the best out of them without alienating them. Making them accountable in public is a start. I don't mean full out embarrassing them.

[mvp 78]

I agree. They should be held to the fire. I'm just not sold on BV's way being "the right way."

[Muggah]

I agree. They should be held to the fire. I'm just not sold on BV's way being "the right way."

 

That's fair. But my guess is that it's results and not methodology that ownership was concerned about when deciding to bring Valentine aboard. It's hard to imagine Luchhino suggesting limits on how far or how hard he wants Valentine to push some of these layabouts---or Valentine agreeing to any such terms to begin with. That would have added up to not much more than Francona is said to have suggested before he was jettisoned.

 

No, I think (or at least I hope) Valentine's been given free reign to operate however he sees fit when it comes to these prima donnas. And if takes making them human pinatas through the press, well...that's their choice. I suspect most will come around, adjust, and produce---while at least one, maybe two--I have a sneaky suspicion--won't, and they'll get their backs up and shoot their way out of town. And that's fine, too. This is, after all, a transitional year---so weeding out the dickheads will just be another part of the transitional process.

[FredLynn]

That's going to really help bring in FA's.

 

Eventually it will. The players will realize that they need to be PROFESSIONAL at what they do or they will suffer the consequences. Their behavior will change so that they avoid the embarassment that prima donnas like Crawford are now enduring, and that Beckett endured before him. They will all fall in line, or they will not be playing for this team. It will take time-a year or two-but they will ALL fall in line.

[Elktonnick]

I agree. They should be held to the fire. I'm just not sold on BV's way being "the right way."

 

From the way things happened with CC i don't think BV had any other choice. It wasn't planned. He made a comment about CC's batting stance several months before he was hired when he was an analyst with ESPN. His comments were appropriate for his role. CC got PO'd. BV is hired. Everyone advised him to talk to his players. He does that. He is asked a question. In resposne he said he called CC but ws unable to reach him. No problem so far. Several days later he is asked a followup and replies that he still hasn't spoken to CC. He downplays it but the media follows up. So what is BV supposed to say. Is he supposed to lie? Is he supposed to say no comment? The end result is simple the managers calls and the player doesn't return his call. As far as we know he still hasn't returned his call. Any way you look at it, a fair reading is that BV reached out and CC has snubbed him. I ask you who is the one who is inappropriate? I don't know who is advising Crawford. I don't know if Crawford is smart enough to listen to any advise. But as of right now Crawford not BV is the one who looks like the jerk.

[mvp 78]

Eventually it will. The players will realize that they need to be PROFESSIONAL at what they do or they will suffer the consequences. Their behavior will change so that they avoid the embarassment that prima donnas like Crawford are now enduring' date=' and that Beckett endured before him. They will all fall in line, or they will not be playing for this team. It will take time-a year or two-but they will ALL fall in line.[/quote']

 

I'm a professional baseball player. I've had my ass kissed since little league. Why would I put up with BS in Boston when I could play for 29 other teams?

 

I believe bitching to the media is not professional behavior. Why should the players be held to a different standard?

[FredLynn]

From the way things happened with CC i don't think BV had any other choice. It wasn't planned. He made a comment about CC's batting stance several months before he was hired when he was an analyst with ESPN. His comments were appropriate for his role. CC got PO'd. BV is hired. Everyone advised him to talk to his players. He does that. He is asked a question. In resposne he said he called CC but ws unable to reach him. No problem so far. Several days later he is asked a followup and replies that he still hasn't spoken to CC. He downplays it but the media follows up. So what is BV supposed to say. Is he supposed to lie? Is he supposed to say no comment? The end result is simple the managers calls and the player doesn't return his call. As far as we know he still hasn't returned his call. Any way you look at it' date=' a fair reading is that BV reached out and CC has snubbed him. I ask you who is the one who is inappropriate? I don't know who is advising Crawford. I don't know if Crawford is smart enough to listen to any advise. But as of right now Crawford not BV is the one who looks like the jerk.[/quote']

 

Valentine could have answered by answering a different question, as politicians and managers frequently do when asked a question they don't want to answer.

But I like this way much better. It exposes exactly the kind of behavior that I believe he intends to eliminate-the entitlement prima donna nonsense espoused by overpaid spoiled jerks like Beckett and Lackey and apparently Crawford.

They will all come around.

[FredLynn]

I'm a professional baseball player. I've had my ass kissed since little league. Why would I put up with BS in Boston when I could play for 29 other teams?

 

I believe bitching to the media is not professional behavior. Why should the players be held to a different standard?

 

Sorry, but that simply isn't true. Managers rarely defend crap perpetrated by the players, the one notable exception being Francona.

Did Maddon defend Upton or did he bench his ass when he misbehaved for the Rays?

Did Girardi defend or bench Posada when he told his boss that he didn't feel good about batting lower in the order?

Happens all the time, players being called out publicly by their managers if they misbehave. Just not in Boston...until now.

[mvp 78]

There's a difference between benching and doing a radio interview. Benching is a much more appropriate response. However, I'm not sure CC having telephonobia is at the level of benching.

[Elktonnick]

Valentine could have answered by answering a different question, as politicians and managers frequently do when asked a question they don't want to answer.

But I like this way much better. It exposes exactly the kind of behavior that I believe he intends to eliminate-the entitlement prima donna nonsense espoused by overpaid spoiled jerks like Beckett and Lackey and apparently Crawford.

They will all come around.

 

No I don't think that approach would have worked because the media was interested in whether CC had returned the call and would have seen throught eh spin. But I am happy the way things worked out. I think those criticizing BV would do so regardless of the result. It is all about enablement of bad behavior.

 

I had a somewhat favorable view of CC prior to this. I no longer have that view. I don't think I am alone.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

I think those criticizing BV would do so regardless of the result.

 

 

I bet that is it. A lot of people don't seem to like him for some reason, and won't seem to accept him. That will always happen. Much like the people who loved Francona and would let him get away with murder.

[YAZMAN]

No I don't think that approach would have worked because the media was interested in whether CC had returned the call and would have seen throught eh spin. But I am happy the way things worked out. I think those criticizing BV would do so regardless of the result. It is all about enablement of bad behavior.

 

I had a somewhat favorable view of CC prior to this. I no longer have that view. I don't think I am alone.

 

Bobby V is an attention whore, his ego is bigger than the players'. He will stick out people in an attempt to get the upper hand, and when he does it won't be pretty.

[Elktonnick]

Bobby V is an attention whore' date=' his ego is bigger than the players'. He will stick out people in an attempt to get the upper hand, and when he does it won't be pretty.[/quote']

 

Sounds just what the doctor ordered for this bunch. And it doesn't make him a bad manager. It just means he isn't Terry Francona.

[Deebs]

No I don't think that approach would have worked because the media was interested in whether CC had returned the call and would have seen throught eh spin. But I am happy the way things worked out. I think those criticizing BV would do so regardless of the result. It is all about enablement of bad behavior.

 

I had a somewhat favorable view of CC prior to this. I no longer have that view. I don't think I am alone.

 

It's not about enablement of bad behavior. If Crawford is having a pouty attitude, the he should be dealt with, just not publicly. There are ways that Valentine could have handled this so as not to make a media circus out of it. He certainly didn't have to throw in the comment about going down to watch Crawford's workout.

 

If I eff up, I expect to be reprimanded. However, I don't expect to be reprimanded in front of the entire office. I expect to be reprimanded privately.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

 

If I eff up, I expect to be reprimanded. However, I don't expect to be reprimanded in front of the entire office. I expect to be reprimanded privately.

 

But they don't work in an office. They do a job infront of millions of people. Millions of people who pay money out of their own pocket so that they can go to the stadium and watch them play, buy their memorabilia, and pay to watch them on television therefor they deserve to be reprimanded in front of those people.

[mvp 78]

But they don't work in an office. They do a job infront of millions of people. Millions of people who pay money out of their own pocket so that they can go to the stadium and watch them play' date=' buy their memorabilia, and pay to watch them on television therefor they deserve to be reprimanded in front of those people.[/quote']

 

No, that's like saying I deserve to be reprimanded in front of all my clients. It just feeds your bloodlust. It's not professional behavior. The only thing fans deserve is the product on the field. Players shouldn't be subject to public floggings just because fans are po'd.

[Elktonnick]

No' date=' that's like saying I deserve to be reprimanded in front of all my clients. It just feeds your bloodlust. It's not professional behavior. The only thing fans deserve is the product on the field. Players shouldn't be subject to public floggings just because fans are po'd.[/quote']

 

That is not the way it happened in my view. Besides all CC has to do is pick up the phone and make the call. If he isn't man enough to do that then shame on him. He deserves what he gets.

[Muggah]

That is not the way it happened in my view. Besides all CC has to do is pick up the phone and make the call. If he isn't man enough to do that then shame on him. He deserves what he gets.

 

Indeed. It's his choice. He can stop it anytime he likes. And who knows, maybe the way he's handling this is just an indicator that year really got to him and he's decided that he wants out, and that this is just the beginning of him trying to shoot his way out of town. It certainly wouldn't be the first time we've seen a player do this.

 

Truth is we just don't know yet. But he sure ain't doing himself any favors in the court of public opinion by behaving this way. That's for damn sure.

[FredLynn]

No' date=' that's like saying I deserve to be reprimanded in front of all my clients. It just feeds your bloodlust. It's not professional behavior. The only thing fans deserve is the product on the field. Players shouldn't be subject to public floggings just because fans are po'd.[/quote']

 

We tried that approach with Francona. Look where it got us. No playoff wins in three years and a franchise that is one of two who paid luxury tax this year but is in disarray. Guys walking all over their manager. Its pathetic the condition Francona and his approach left us in.

The manager does not have a lot of tools to force compliance out of a player. He cannot just take him into his office ask ask him nicely or even beg him not to eat fried chicken and drink beer during games. Been there; done that. One tool that he does have available is public humiliation. I say USE IT! Its not the same as you and your clients because in other occupations your boss can discipline you, reduce your pay for insubordination, or fire you and terminate your contract with your company. Baseball contracts are guaranteed; these buffoons will get paid even if they are recalcitrant jerks like Beckett and Crawford. They cannot be fired. Big difference.

[DirtDog]

Valentine's job is to manage the Boston Red Sox. Not check up on his players like a daddy checking in on his daughter when she's over at her friends house for a slumber party. The two will eventually see each other in spring training and iron things out. It's not standard procedure for a manager to have long conversations with players in the offseason. New managers may be a different story, but still Carl could be overseas, could be dealing with personal crap, re-evaluating, rededicating himself. Maybe he's angry at himself and thinks this whole situation is his fault. Who knows? Certain people have ways of dealing with their own s***, maybe he needs to time away from baseball. More power to him.

[Elktonnick]

Valentine's job is to manage the Boston Red Sox. Not check up on his players like a daddy checking in on his daughter when she's over at her friends house for a slumber party. The two will eventually see each other in spring training and iron things out. It's not standard procedure for a manager to have long conversations with players in the offseason. New managers may be a different story' date=' but still Carl could be overseas, could be dealing with personal crap, re-evaluating, rededicating himself. Maybe he's angry at himself and thinks this whole situation is his fault. Who knows? Certain people have ways of dealing with their own s***, maybe he needs to time away from baseball. More power to him.[/quote']

 

Horse hockey. It is excuses like that which lenables bad behavior and leads to this entitlement mentality that these spoiled underperforming overpaid players have. Regarding this very issue, Tom Caron of all people criticized Beckett and Crawford this am. If my boss called me, I'd return his call. This was a courtesy call. CC has no courtesy and no brains obviously. We all know Beckett is a punk.

[mvp 78]

Should CC have called back? Yes.

Should BV have kept his trap shut? Yes.

[FredLynn]

Valentine's job is to manage the Boston Red Sox. Not check up on his players like a daddy checking in on his daughter when she's over at her friends house for a slumber party. The two will eventually see each other in spring training and iron things out. It's not standard procedure for a manager to have long conversations with players in the offseason. New managers may be a different story' date=' but still Carl could be overseas, could be dealing with personal crap, re-evaluating, rededicating himself. Maybe he's angry at himself and thinks this whole situation is his fault. Who knows? Certain people have ways of dealing with their own s***, maybe he needs to time away from baseball. More power to him.[/quote']

 

Your boss calls, you return the call.

Period.

[mvp 78]

Your boss calls, you return the call.

Period.

 

I'm a former AS making almost 10 times what my boss makes and have a contract that is twice as long. I have a guaranteed contract. I'm in no hurry to return a phone call I don't want to deal with. Period.