Phillies sign Papelbon

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Encourage Dutchy before his next banning.

 

Not. Even. Close.

 

Not everyone that doesn't see eye to eye with you is Dutchy my friend.

[a700hitter]

Not. Even. Close.

 

Not everyone that doesn't see eye to eye with you is Dutchy my friend.

The last time that I identified Dutchy I was told it wasn't him. Then he went berserk left TalkSox to go to Sons of Sam Horn and spammed TalKSox. Very few posters here agree with me about anything. My Dutchy ID's have usually been right.:dunno:

[jung]

Bard is going to be the closer, at least to start the year. Why pay big bucks for someone else? Bard has earned the chance for a shot at that job. Maybe it will work out; maybe not. I would rather spend the money getting other pieces for a run in a couple of years that for a closer who is likely no better than Bard would be. They are ALL a crapshoot, Rivera being the exception.

Pumpsie I went so far in one of my last posts to say that in my view it made little sense to pay something like $5M for a closer. Many teams are paying less than $2M and some less than $1M for a closer because they give the job to a young guy early in his career. If you pay $5M or so for a closer I don't think that you get anybody that will pitch better than that young guy. You just pay more money for him.

[Palodios]

Encourage Dutchy before his next banning.

 

User Name may or may not be Dutchy... but he is definitely not the same person as AtWork. AtWork was the last person you suspected was Dutchy, right? We argued for a few hours about whether Atwork's work on the Red Sox financials was accurate, and clearly did not have the same knowledge on the subject that AtWork did.

[iortiz]

Now that Pap is gone, my nice to have is:

 

1.- Bring a closer.

2.- Keep Bard as the setup guy and let him prepare for the closer job (1-2 more seasons) and let him share the load with the new closer (70%-30%)

3.- Bring a couple of SPs (4,5) or at least bring one and move Aceves to the rotation.

 

Plus 2-3 BP arms, a couple of pitching depth, sign Beltran and/or Ortiz...and If there still budget, bring another RH OF (mostly if we only sign Ortiz)

[jacksonianmarch]

The last time that I identified Dutchy I was told it wasn't him. Then he went berserk left TalkSox to go to Sons of Sam Horn and spammed TalKSox. Very few posters here agree with me about anything. My Dutchy ID's have usually been right.:dunno:

 

I have caught him three times and falsely accused on person (sorry forsyth), I have the same inclinations, but need to see more before I make that leap.

[a700hitter]

User Name may or may not be Dutchy... but he is definitely not the same person as AtWork. AtWork was the last person you suspected was Dutchy' date=' right? We argued for a few hours about whether Atwork's work on the Red Sox financials was accurate, and clearly did not have the same knowledge on the subject that AtWork did.[/quote']Yeah, and you would be the best judge of that. AtWork was on my ignore list, so I didn't engage him on any topics.

[a700hitter]

I have caught him three times and falsely accused on person (sorry forsyth)' date=' I have the same inclinations, but need to see more before I make that leap.[/quote']The thing with Dutchy and his progeny is that he always reveals himself during some psychotic break. It's only a matter of time.

[Palodios]

Yeah' date=' and you would be the best judge of that. AtWork was on my ignore list, so I didn't engage him on any topics.[/quote']

 

What is that supposed to mean? Seriously, go into the offseason thread and look at the conversation and tell me what you think.

[a700hitter]

What is that supposed to mean? Seriously' date=' go into the offseason thread and look at the conversation and tell me what you think.[/quote']I'll pass. Nothing he ever said interested me in the least. No reason to take him off ignore posthumously.

[seabeachfred]

Bard is going to be the closer' date=' at least to start the year. Why pay big bucks for someone else? Bard has earned the chance for a shot at that job. Maybe it will work out; maybe not. I would rather spend the money getting other pieces for a run in a couple of years that for a closer who is likely no better than Bard would be. They are ALL a crapshoot, Rivera being the exception.[/quote']

 

Pumpsie, if they could get Nathan on a one year plus a mutual option I could go for that. If not we should go with Bard even though his collapse in September was troubling. It's possible he was overworked and I read the stats where he had more innings than Papelbon. Still, we had better strike it rich or lucky with the relievers we sign because even if our "Big Three" in the rotation have banner and injury free years we still need two more starters and neither of them named Tim Wakefield. If Aceves is in the rotation then our pen really needs a blood transfusion. Morales doesn't make my enthusiasm jump and the rest of what we have does even less for me.

[seabeachfred]

The last time that I identified Dutchy I was told it wasn't him. Then he went berserk left TalkSox to go to Sons of Sam Horn and spammed TalKSox. Very few posters here agree with me about anything. My Dutchy ID's have usually been right.:dunno:

 

Well here's one poster that does 700. Most of the time you are spot on. I would guess, though, that if I were to ask you what we do about our pitching for next season you would give me a smorgasboard of possibilities. I've come up with a number of suggestions and each one of them has a booby trap in it. I remember Joe Morgan on Sunday Night Baseball once said that for championship teams it all begins with starting pitching. Well barring an injury attack we ought to have three pretty good guys if they pitch up to their capabilities. After that, what???? Trade for one and make Aceves the other? Or maybe keep Aceves in the pen and sign one for a reasonable price? Then there is the problem with enough arms in the bullpen, and I haven't forgotten the RH hitting outfielder. The one thing I've determined that has nothing to do with pitching is not to resign David Ortiz because I think our hitting could survive his departure. Then we'd have an additional $12 or $13 million to play with. Even that scenario has booby traps in it as well. Can Lavarnway pick up much of the slack left by Papi and will he be ready defensively to catch a goodly number of games next season.

 

Maybe we'll get some answers this week.

[User Name]

User Name may or may not be Dutchy... but he is definitely not the same person as AtWork. AtWork was the last person you suspected was Dutchy' date=' right? We argued for a few hours about whether Atwork's work on the Red Sox financials was accurate, and clearly did not have the same knowledge on the subject that AtWork did.[/quote']

 

Hey! I had my own assumptions that were correct (like the signing bonus thing, i also knew about team expenses being factored in that weren't).

 

Otherwise, what is it with people on this board accusing me of being "another poster". It's really annoying.

[FredLynn]

Pumpsie' date=' if they could get Nathan on a one year plus a mutual option I could go for that. If not we should go with Bard even though his collapse in September was troubling. It's possible he was overworked and I read the stats where he had more innings than Papelbon. Still, we had better strike it rich or lucky with the relievers we sign because even if our "Big Three" in the rotation have banner and injury free years we still need two more starters and neither of them named Tim Wakefield. If Aceves is in the rotation then our pen really needs a blood transfusion. Morales doesn't make my enthusiasm jump and the rest of what we have does even less for me.[/quote']

 

I think we should be planning for 2013 or even 2014. Next year is going to be a rebuilding year, and I can live with that as long as progress is being made. The prospect of a neo-Theo and a Fetch-Redux is not the way to start however. Strong agressive moves are needed, and a no nonsense manager must be hired. Aceves has already been told to report to ST ready to start, but his stats as a SP are not as good as those as a RP. Although the sample size is small, his ERA as a SP is 4.18; as a RP: 2.62. His BAA is .246/.205, and his OPSa is .722/.603. Its pretty clear that so far he has been far more effective in the relief role. That said, next year, since we have nothing to lose IMO, sure, lets give him his chance to start. I wouldn't count on him being successful and would not plan for him to necessarily be in the rotation in 2013, the next year we are likely to be competitive.

[jung]

what is it with people on this board accusing me of being "another poster". It's really annoying.

 

"They are who we thought they were" No wait a minute that is football....sorry about that.

[User Name]

The Red Sox would have killed for a bottom-of-the-rotation starter that gave them a 4.18 ERA last year. If there's a possibility that he may have that ERA and average 6 IP per start, it would be a Godsend.

[Palodios]

The Red Sox would have killed for a bottom-of-the-rotation starter that gave them a 4.18 ERA last year. If there's a possibility that he may have that ERA and average 6 IP per start' date=' it would be a Godsend.[/quote']

 

They will need to do some significant work to the bullpen though. That being said... I think the bullpen depth on this team is seriously seriously underated. Between Dubront/ Bowden Tazawa/ Okajima/ Jenks / Rich Hill / Albers / Wilson there is bound to be a gem in there somewhere.

[Palodios]

Hey! I had my own assumptions that were correct (like the signing bonus thing, i also knew about team expenses being factored in that weren't).

 

Otherwise, what is it with people on this board accusing me of being "another poster". It's really annoying.

 

I didn't say you were wrong, I just meant that you and AtWork were working under different knowledge of how the luxury tax operated, and you both had some things rights, and some wrong. Considering the depth of the conversation, I find it very implausible that you wasted all that time arguing against number that you had originally cooked up yourself.

 

As far as the accusations... well, you've probably already met a700:lol: Either way, AtWork contributed a lot to this board, and so do you, so I could care less.

[FredLynn]

The Red Sox would have killed for a bottom-of-the-rotation starter that gave them a 4.18 ERA last year. If there's a possibility that he may have that ERA and average 6 IP per start' date=' it would be a Godsend.[/quote']

 

I would hope that Aceves would be better than a bottom of the rotation SP. He is certainly more than a bottom of the rotation RP; in fact, I think he was great last year, invaluable. If we lose that kind of quality for a bottom of the rotation SP its not going to be pretty.

[iortiz]

They will need to do some significant work to the bullpen though. That being said... I think the bullpen depth on this team is seriously seriously overrated. Between Dubront/ Bowden Tazawa/ Okajima/ Jenks / Rich Hill / Albers / Wilson there is bound to be a gem in there somewhere.

 

Agree.

 

And our pitching depth doesn't even exist. Am I correct?

[jung]

You probably end up putting Aceves at the bottom of the rotation if he goes there because you would not want to depend on him for more than 150 innings, maybe less in his first year in a starting role.

[Palodios]

Agree.

 

And our pitching depth doesn't even exist. Am I correct?

 

You agree? Oh, I see what happened there. I had a typo, I meant underrated, not overrated:lol:

[iortiz]

You agree? Oh' date=' I see what happened there. I had a typo, I meant underrated, not overrated:lol:[/quote']

 

I'm agree that they will need to do some significant work at the BP.

 

On the other hand our pitching depth was... Miller?

 

So, they will need to build that department as well.

[Palodios]

I'm agree that they will need to do some significant work at the BP.

 

On the other hand our pitching depth was... Miller?

 

So, they will need to build that department as well.

 

Agreed. The problem is they tried so hard to have elite players at every single position that it came with a cost. Instead of having a great, balanced team, they tried to have an epic team with no depth. If they make trades, they need to do some 1-for-2 deals that trade one great player for two good players.

[iortiz]

Agreed. The problem is they tried so hard to have elite players at every single position that it came with a cost. Instead of having a great' date=' balanced team, they tried to have an epic team with no depth. If they make trades, they need to do some 1-for-2 deals that trade one great player for two good players.[/quote']

 

Yup.

 

And that, gonna rest on Cherington's abilities. If they don't blow up the cap, he will need to be more than creative, if we want to be considered as serious contenders.

[jacksonianmarch]

Hey! I had my own assumptions that were correct (like the signing bonus thing, i also knew about team expenses being factored in that weren't).

 

Otherwise, what is it with people on this board accusing me of being "another poster". It's really annoying.

 

And it is you. You've used that exact same line before with the exact same quotes

[User Name]

Goddamn this is annoying. If you wanna know where i came from, ask SCM33 or RSFFL. They know me from TalkPats (where i posted before coming here) and have talked with through FB.

 

Jesus Christ you guys are annoying.

[a700hitter]

And it is you. You've used that exact same line before with the exact same quotes

If he is Dutchy, he will reveal himself. Psychos can't help themselves..

[iortiz]

If he is Dutchy' date=' he will reveal himself. Psychos can't help themselves..[/quote']

 

I already PMed u compadre.

 

EDIT: BTW Thanks for the advise again!

[a700hitter]

Well here's one poster that does 700. Most of the time you are spot on. I would guess, though, that if I were to ask you what we do about our pitching for next season you would give me a smorgasboard of possibilities. I've come up with a number of suggestions and each one of them has a booby trap in it. I remember Joe Morgan on Sunday Night Baseball once said that for championship teams it all begins with starting pitching. Well barring an injury attack we ought to have three pretty good guys if they pitch up to their capabilities. After that, what???? Trade for one and make Aceves the other? Or maybe keep Aceves in the pen and sign one for a reasonable price? Then there is the problem with enough arms in the bullpen, and I haven't forgotten the RH hitting outfielder. The one thing I've determined that has nothing to do with pitching is not to resign David Ortiz because I think our hitting could survive his departure. Then we'd have an additional $12 or $13 million to play with. Even that scenario has booby traps in it as well. Can Lavarnway pick up much of the slack left by Papi and will he be ready defensively to catch a goodly number of games next season.

 

Maybe we'll get some answers this week.

Maybe they will find the perfect puppet manager and they can move forward building the roster.