Your perfect offseason

[User Name]

What moves, in your opinion, should the Red Sox make in order to make 2012 a successful season? List your moves (As real as possible please) as well as your 2012 starting 25-man roster.

 

Mine:

 

Let go:

 

Ortiz, Drew, Varitek, Wakefield all gone.

 

Sign:

 

Edwin Jackson (3/36)

Carlos Beltran (2/27)

Papelbon re-signed (3/39)

Joel Peralta (2/6)

Mike Gonzales (2/8)

Jonathan Broxton (Incentive laden one-year contract)

Scott Kazmir (Stash him in the minors)

Brandon Webb (Stash in minors)

Andruw Jones (Incentive laden one year deal)

 

My 2012 initial 25-man roster, if all goes right, would be:

 

C: Salty/Lavarnway

1B: Gonzales

2B: Pedroia

SS: Scutaro

3B: Youk

LF: Crawford

CF: Ellsbury

RF: Kalish

DH: Beltran

 

Bench:

Salty/Lavarnway

Lowrie

Reddick

Jones

 

Rotation:

 

Lester

Beckett

Bucholz

Jackson

Aceves

 

Bullpen:

 

Kazmir

Morales

Gonzales

Broxton

Peralta

Bard

Papelbon

 

 

Just throwing some thoughts out there.

[commenter]

What moves, in your opinion, should the Red Sox make in order to make 2012 a successful season? List your moves (As real as possible please) as well as your 2012 starting 25-man roster.

 

Mine:

 

Let go:

 

Ortiz, Drew, Varitek, Wakefield all gone.

 

Sign:

 

Edwin Jackson (3/36)

Carlos Beltran (2/27)

Papelbon re-signed (3/39)

Joel Peralta (2/6)

Mike Gonzales (2/8)

Jonathan Broxton (Incentive laden one-year contract)

Scott Kazmir (Stash him in the minors)

Brandon Webb (Stash in minors)

Andruw Jones (Incentive laden one year deal)

 

My 2012 initial 25-man roster, if all goes right, would be:

 

C: Salty/Lavarnway

1B: Gonzales

2B: Pedroia

SS: Scutaro

3B: Youk

LF: Crawford

CF: Ellsbury

RF: Kalish

DH: Beltran

 

Bench:

Salty/Lavarnway

Lowrie

Reddick

Jones

 

Rotation:

 

Lester

Beckett

Bucholz

Jackson

Aceves

 

Bullpen:

 

Kazmir

Morales

Gonzales

Albers

Broxton

Jenks

Papelbon

 

 

Just throwing some thoughts out there.

 

I don't think Beltran wants to be a DH & I doubt he'd sign with out making sure he wouldn't be.

 

And Youkilis will never survive at 3rd all season. He'd probably have to DH a lot & platoon there with Aviles & Lowrie.

 

And Jackson is Boras client who's WHIP is terrible annually and has a 7.36 ERA at Fenway.

 

And while I want Papelbon resigned (Texas can tell you the importance of a good closer), I think it'll take more than 3/39 to sign him. He wants to set the bar for closers, so it's more like 3/45.

[Meh]

I don't think Beltran wants to be a DH & I doubt he'd sign with out making sure he wouldn't be.

 

And Youkilis will never survive at 3rd all season. He'd probably have to DH a lot & platoon there with Aviles & Lowrie.

 

And Jackson is Boras client who's WHIP is terrible annually and has a 7.36 ERA at Fenway.

 

And while I want Papelbon resigned (Texas can tell you the importance of a good closer), I think it'll take more than 3/39 to sign him. He wants to set the bar for closers, so it's more like 3/45.

 

It's your perfect off season, I think it's more fantasy than anything.

[jacksonianmarch]

My perfect offseason? Deal for Felix by trading AJ Burnett. Sign Pujols for $500 a game and put him in LF. Sign CJ Wilson on the cheap. And, win the lottery and move to Key West

[User Name]

My perfect offseason? Deal for Felix by trading AJ Burnett. Sign Pujols for $500 a game and put him in LF. Sign CJ Wilson on the cheap. And' date=' win the lottery and move to Key West[/quote']

 

I said as real as possible, not as stupid and condescending as possible.

[User Name]

I don't think Beltran wants to be a DH & I doubt he'd sign with out making sure he wouldn't be.

 

And Youkilis will never survive at 3rd all season. He'd probably have to DH a lot & platoon there with Aviles & Lowrie.

 

And Jackson is Boras client who's WHIP is terrible annually and has a 7.36 ERA at Fenway.

 

And while I want Papelbon resigned (Texas can tell you the importance of a good closer), I think it'll take more than 3/39 to sign him. He wants to set the bar for closers, so it's more like 3/45.

 

The thing is, you could rotate Beltran/Youk/Lavarnway in the DH spot given the fact that they would all capable backups.

 

Beltran will go where the money takes him.

[User Name]

It's your perfect off season' date=' I think it's more fantasy than anything.[/quote']

 

Where's the "fantasy" nature of anything i said?

 

I don't see Pujols playing RF, or Lackey/Matsuzaka for Felix Hernandez.

 

It's a realistic look at what would the roster look like if you were assembling it.

[jung]

User in your lineup when you do put Beltran in the field would you put him in right or move Ells to right and put Beltran in center? I figure you would have him in the field for some number of games. Could he play our RF?

[User Name]

User in your lineup when you do put Beltran in the field would you put him in right or move Ells to right and put Beltran in center? I figure you would have him in the field for some number of games. Could he play our RF?

 

I think he could. Maybe not as good as Drew (as much as we hate on him, the one thing he could do was play D) but i think he would be an above average defender. Besides, it's time the FO stops screwing around with Ellsbury.

 

I also think he could give Crawford a breather in LF against tougher lefties if he can play the wall, and DH would be open for Youk/Lavarnway in those instances.

[seabeachfred]

What moves, in your opinion, should the Red Sox make in order to make 2012 a successful season? List your moves (As real as possible please) as well as your 2012 starting 25-man roster.

 

Mine:

 

Let go:

 

Ortiz, Drew, Varitek, Wakefield all gone.

 

Sign:

 

Edwin Jackson (3/36)

Carlos Beltran (2/27)

Papelbon re-signed (3/39)

Joel Peralta (2/6)

Mike Gonzales (2/8)

Jonathan Broxton (Incentive laden one-year contract)

Scott Kazmir (Stash him in the minors)

Brandon Webb (Stash in minors)

Andruw Jones (Incentive laden one year deal)

 

My 2012 initial 25-man roster, if all goes right, would be:

 

C: Salty/Lavarnway

1B: Gonzales

2B: Pedroia

SS: Scutaro

3B: Youk

LF: Crawford

CF: Ellsbury

RF: Kalish

DH: Beltran

 

Bench:

Salty/Lavarnway

Lowrie

Reddick

Jones

 

Rotation:

 

Lester

Beckett

Bucholz

Jackson

Aceves

 

Bullpen:

 

Kazmir

Morales

Gonzales

Albers

Broxton

Jenks

Papelbon

 

 

Just throwing some thoughts out there.

 

Your starting lineup is very good User, but your pitching is in the outhouse. Please don't take this personally but Broxton and Kazmir teamed with Smorgasboard Jenks? You have to be kidding me. And where the hell is Bard? Was he traded or something. Again, that lineup is nicely balanced between lefties and righties, 5-4 either way with Beltran as a switch hitter, but Jackson will be too expensive and he doesn't pitch well in Fenway at all. As for Kazmir and Broxton, take it from this guy who lives in the LA region. You don't want either one of them in your bullpen, not now, now next year, not ever.

 

If you can replace Kaz and Brox with two others, and do the same with Jackson for the rotation you could have come up with something.

[User Name]

Your starting lineup is very good User, but your pitching is in the outhouse. Please don't take this personally but Broxton and Kazmir teamed with Smorgasboard Jenks? You have to be kidding me. And where the hell is Bard? Was he traded or something. Again, that lineup is nicely balanced between lefties and righties, 5-4 either way with Beltran as a switch hitter, but Jackson will be too expensive and he doesn't pitch well in Fenway at all. As for Kazmir and Broxton, take it from this guy who lives in the LA region. You don't want either one of them in your bullpen, not now, now next year, not ever.

 

If you can replace Kaz and Brox with two others, and do the same with Jackson for the rotation you could have come up with something.

 

Replace Albers with Bard, and Kazmir is a long reliever/ reclamation project. He bombs (and he likely will) you have insurance in Webb (who should be all the way back) Doubront, and Tazawa (who should also be all the way back.

[jung]

I really like the everyday players also. The problem is when you look at the available pitches there is just not much there. Buehrle is $14M per year and he not worth that much. CJ is going to take a fortune. As old as he is Javier Vasquez might be short term solution that just gets you past a year or two if no like Jackson.

 

As a group this year's bunch is thin, old, going into surgery, or just not that good for the money they are making. Maybe Vasquez is worth considering for a year or two.

[Laser Show]

Buehrle is still an ace, worth $14M at least for a year or 2. He isn't old and I'd take him at $14M over however much Vasquez or Jackson would cost. I see him going back to Chicago though.

[User Name]

Buehrle is still an ace' date=' worth $14M at least for a year or 2. He isn't old and I'd take him at $14M over however much Vasquez or Jackson would cost. I see him going back to Chicago though.[/quote']

 

Precisely the reason why i listed Jackson instead of him. Realistically, he's not leaving the ChiSox.

[jung]

Buehrle is getting $14M NOW though and coming off what has been arguably his best season. So even though he is starting to get up there in age, I don't think $14M will get it done for him. This year there is basically Buehrle and Wilson and then a giant drop off from there.

 

This year's crop of guys has more options for guys to fill out the back of the rotation (innings eaters) which is also an area of need for the Sox. Next year is when you end up with many more options for guys that might fit at the upper end of the rotation. I think the Sox will be best served looking to fill out the back end of the rotation this year as you don't have to risk that much money to do that, give Lester one more year to try to move past Beckett which he should have done in 2011 and then jump on a front end of the rotation guy in 2013 if need be.

 

While some of these guys will probably renegotiate with their current teams before they get to the FA market next year, the list for next year currently includes Hamels, Cain, both Anibeal and Jonathan Sanchez, Danks, Lewis, Saunders, Liriano, Guthri, Greinke, Lohse, Markum, Pavano, Blanton, McCarthy, Correia and a whole bunch more. When you compare next years crop of guys to this years, there is just no comparison.

 

This is just not the year that the Sox can pump $16M-$20M into one arm. Even $14M for another arm this year would be tough to swallow if we first want to get Paps back here.

 

Actually I had forgotten about Buehrle's and Chicago although somebody posted a couple weeks ago that prying him out of Chicago would only add to the cost of trying to get him.

[jung]

I should have stuck this in the last post since the question was sort of asked. Either Jackson or Vasquez would cost half or maybe less than half of what Buehrle would cost. I would think maybe $9M for Jackson. Maybe $8 maybe less for Vasquez because of his age. Vasquez could be pliable because of his age and maybe you could get him on a relatively short term contract for not much money.

 

I should have added that the only way to keep Buehrle at close to $14M would be to add what I would think would be to many years and that is what I meant by not being worth $14M. You would probably have to give him 5 years at $15 or more even if you could pry him out of Chicago and he will be 38 I think on that 5th year. If you wanted to keep it down to something like 4 years the money probably turns into something like $17 per year anyway.

[jacksonianmarch]

Wait, you want Javy Vazquez? Really? Have you not seen enough of him in a pinstriped uniform? Please get Javy, in Fenway, he'd have an ERA over 6

[iortiz]

Sign Buehrle or/and Wilson, SP (5th, +- 4 ERA), Papelbon and Ortiz.

 

Bring a couple depth pitching arms. (+- 4.5 ERA)

Bring 3 BP arms.

 

Sign a RHH OF (>.800 OPS) and keep developing Reddick and Kalish.

 

Get Rid for once and for all of D-K, Lackey, Jenks.

 

Keep Ace, Bard, Morales, Albers, Aviles (as utility)

 

Put an ultimatum to Crwaford, if he doesn't put at least .290/.330/.800; try to trade him before the trade deadline.

[jung]

Well I can afford Vasquez. I am trying to do it on a specific budget, probably a bit lower than Users budget and I am thinking I might could get Vasquez for less money and less time than Jackson. I would like Beltran but I need to find some money from someplace, in fact a couple of someplaces. If not, then I think I could get Cuddyer for less than Beltran and I guess I would have to take Cuddyer and hope he gets through the year.

[italstallianion]

My perfect offseason would be if Yankee Stadium collapsed with the team and a lot of its fans in it. I think my pipedream tops all of yours.

[redsoxrules]

Sign Buehrle or/and Wilson, SP (5th, +- 4 ERA), Papelbon and Ortiz.

 

Bring a couple depth pitching arms. (+- 4.5 ERA)

Bring 3 BP arms.

 

Sign a RHH OF (>.800 OPS) and keep developing Reddick and Kalish.

 

Get Rid for once and for all of D-K, Lackey, Jenks.

 

Keep Ace, Bard, Morales, Albers, Aviles (as utility)

 

Put an ultimatum to Crwaford, if he doesn't put at least .290/.330/.800; try to trade him before the trade deadline.

 

well, that would be hard to do , unless they eat half the contract wich I doubt happens.

[User Name]

Sign Buehrle or/and Wilson, SP (5th, +- 4 ERA), Papelbon and Ortiz.

Bring a couple depth pitching arms. (+- 4.5 ERA)

Bring 3 BP arms.

 

Sign a RHH OF (>.800 OPS) and keep developing Reddick and Kalish.

 

Get Rid for once and for all of D-K, Lackey, Jenks.

 

Keep Ace, Bard, Morales, Albers, Aviles (as utility)

 

Put an ultimatum to Crwaford, if he doesn't put at least .290/.330/.800; try to trade him before the trade deadline.

 

It's meant to be realistic. The bolded areas are far from realistic.

[User Name]

Well I can afford Vasquez. I am trying to do it on a specific budget' date=' probably a bit lower than Users budget and I am thinking I might could get Vasquez for less money and less time than Jackson. I would like Beltran but I need to find some money from someplace, in fact a couple of someplaces[b']. If not, then I think I could get Cuddyer for less than Beltran and I guess I would have to take Cuddyer and hope he gets through the year[/b].

 

I don't think you will. Cuddyer is looking for 4/50, and he's probably going to get it.

 

Also, Vasquez would get murdered at Fenway.

[jung]

There is not much money to play with here at this point. One brick wall you run into pretty quickly is that those last few FA deals that the Sox made just has them drowning in cost and most of the cost for AGons doesn't lick in until this year when we start paying him $21M season. We have to pay Crawford $5M more in 2012 than we did in 2011 so even a good portion of the Drew and Cameron money is sucked up immediately by the added payroll from AGons and Crawford. Whether we are getting something for $$ spent or not and in some cases we are and some not, those $ really have us boxed into something of a corner at least as far as things that you can do to make changes.

 

Letting Ortiz go gets you a little financial breathing room but you can spend that money pretty quickly as well.

[User Name]

I think a lot of people are understating how much money the FO is going to be willing to spend after last year's debacle. I'm operating under the assumption that they'll operate just under the luxury tax next year. That should give the Sox some decent breathing room.

[jung]

I don't think you will. Cuddyer is looking for 4/50, and he's probably going to get it.

 

So just wondering if you were trying to get Beltran to fit or if you really think he could be had for 2/27?

 

Not being critical at all....just wonder if you really think Beltran could be gotten at 2/27. Wouldn't the variable between the two of them now suggest that if Cuddyer can actually pull down 4/50 that Beltran will command better than 2/27?

[User Name]

So just wondering if you were trying to get Beltran to fit or if you really think he could be had for 2/27?

 

Not being critical at all....just wonder if you really think Beltran could be gotten at 2/27. Wouldn't the variable between the two of them now suggest that if Cuddyer can actually pull down 4/50 that Beltran will command better than 2/27?

 

The market for Beltran should be much weaker than Cuddyer's because he's older, fragile, and can only play the corners right now. He may command a bit higher AAV, but the way i see it, he only gets a third year on an option.

[jung]

Yea, I buy that User although at least with the money I am trying to spend the possible AAV for Beltran is what is killing me...plus he is a Boras guy and Boras always seems to extract every last penny out of the big market teams.

 

A wild assed hope on Veaquez figuring he had developed enough of a package of pitches to survive better in Fenway coming back to the AL this time around but just points out how tough the money end is right now. Pretty tough puzzle to put together unless there is more money pumped in to play with than I am figuring on at least for this year.

[User Name]

Boras can only do so much. Beltran's health issues and diminishing range are problems he can't deny, and most big-market teams have the two positions he's most attractive for (RF/DH) occupied, with the exception of Philly, but they're the frontrunners for Cuddyer, due to his RH bat and positional flexibility.

 

I'd rather pay Beltran a bit more (2/30) in order to sign him for less time.

[jung]

2/30 makes sense. I will play with that for Beltran and see if I can make some of the other money work.

 

Cuddyer is two years younger but hasn't he started to have problems staying on the field as well?