Speculation: Grady Sizemore

[User Name]

No thanks on Willingham. 33 year old outfielder who isn't very good with the glove. Add in the fact that he misses a lot of games and he's a Type A guy looking for 3 years and he's a pass for me.

 

I was unaware that he was a Type A. Good point.

[Palodios]

No thanks on Willingham. 33 year old outfielder who isn't very good with the glove. Add in the fact that he misses a lot of games and he's a Type A guy looking for 3 years and he's a pass for me.

 

If they go for another big bat, they're likely passing on Ortiz and taking the picks. It may be in the Sox's best interest to take the 5 first rounders from Wheeler, Pap, Ortiz, and then grab a few of those borderline Type A's who get smaller contracts because of their arbitration status. Like for example, grab Willingham, and two relievers... that means 5 first/sandwhich rounders, and all picks from the 4th round on. Still not a bad haul of new talent.

[a700hitter]

If they go for another big bat' date=' they're likely passing on Ortiz and taking the picks. It may be in the Sox's best interest to take the 5 first rounders from Wheeler, Pap, Ortiz, and then grab a few of those borderline Type A's who get smaller contracts because of their arbitration status. Like for example, grab Willingham, and two relievers... that means 5 first/sandwhich rounders, and all picks from the 4th round on. Still not a bad haul of new talent.[/quote']... and with that strategy, they'll get back to the playoffs in 3 more years... maybe.

[Palodios]

... and with that strategy' date=' they'll get back to the playoffs in 3 more years... maybe.[/quote']

 

My strategy is all about getting rid of monster contracts, taking advantage of the draft pick system, and getting quantity, rather than quality. The last two years Papelbon and Bard were completely worn out. So why not replace Papelbon with two quality pitchers so the bullpen doesn't get so worn out? Youkilis got pretty banged up, so why not give him the chance to take a rest at DH and trade off with Willingham every few games?

 

You want the Red Sox to be like the Yankees, but they just don't have the money to make all the moves you want to make. There was something ridiculous like 26 All-Stars in the organization last year... maybe a few less egos couldn't hurt.

[a700hitter]

My strategy is all about getting rid of monster contracts, taking advantage of the draft pick system, and getting quantity, rather than quality. The last two years Papelbon and Bard were completely worn out. So why not replace Papelbon with two quality pitchers so the bullpen doesn't get so worn out? Youkilis got pretty banged up, so why not give him the chance to take a rest at DH and trade off with Willingham every few games?

 

You want the Red Sox to be like the Yankees, but they just don't have the money to make all the moves you want to make. There was something ridiculous like 26 All-Stars in the organization last year... maybe a few less egos couldn't hurt.

I'll say it again. This is a strategy that would have the Red Sox watching the Post Season from their couches for 3 more years. Stop the whining about yankee money. The Sox have got plenty of money. Unfortunately, Theo squandered a boatload of it before leaving for Chicago.

[Palodios]

I'll say it again. This is a strategy that would have the Red Sox watching the Post Season from their couches for 3 more years. Stop the whining about yankee money. The Sox have got plenty of money. Unfortunately' date=' Theo squandered a boatload of it before leaving for Chicago.[/quote']

 

... most of which in big money decisions that you supported.

[a700hitter]

... most of which in big money decisions that you supported.

What's your point? Does that make them good decisions?

[Palodios]

What's your point? Does that make them good decisions?

 

My point is that big money players aren't always the solution. Short contracts mean more motivation for players to perform and earn the next contract. Giving an aging Ortiz, or Papelbon the 3/30-3/45 contracts that they want isn't going to fix this team.

[a700hitter]

My point is that big money players aren't always the solution. Short contracts mean more motivation for players to perform and earn the next contract. Giving an aging Ortiz' date=' or Papelbon the 3/30-3/45 contracts that they want isn't going to fix this team.[/quote']I never said that they were the solutions. Obviously, Theo squandered hundreds of millions on busts.

[Palodios]

I never said that they were the solutions. Obviously' date=' Theo squandered hundreds of millions on busts.[/quote']

 

Not directly no, but your free agent targets are CJ Wilson, Beltran, and a few of the more expensive players, and I don't think that's necessarily the right direction.

[a700hitter]

Not directly no' date=' but your free agent targets are CJ Wilson, Beltran, and a few of the more expensive players, and I don't think that's necessarily the right direction.[/quote']I don't think Beltran will command a huge contract. As for pitchers, I am proposing Bard to get a shot at the rotation. Also, I like Buehrle over CJ Wilson, because Buehrle has been extremely consistently effective and reliable. I think we need to go to the FA market for at least one pitcher. We have a staff of 3 and we have no one at the minor league level ready to step up. One addition might not be enough.

[Palodios]

I don't think Beltran will command a huge contract. As for pitchers' date=' I am proposing Bard to get a shot at the rotation. Also, I like Buehrle over CJ Wilson, because Buehrle has been extremely consistently effective and reliable. I think we need to go to the FA market for at least one pitcher. We have a staff of 3 and we have no one at the minor league level ready to step up. One addition might not be enough.[/quote']

 

Oh, this makes a lot more sense. I agree with all of this.

[SoxSport]

I don't think Beltran will command a huge contract. As for pitchers' date=' I am proposing Bard to get a shot at the rotation. Also, I like Buehrle over CJ Wilson, because Buehrle has been extremely consistently effective and reliable. I think we need to go to the FA market for at least one pitcher. We have a staff of 3 and we have no one at the minor league level ready to step up. One addition might not be enough.[/quote']

 

 

Yeah--it's all about pitching for next year. That's the key. They should make Maddux the manager and get Wilson. Buerhle is OK, too. I would look at who does better pitching in Fenway.

 

The pitching is where they should be spending their bucks.

[seabeachfred]

Beltran is a big question mark. He could either be a legit MVP candidate or an injured OF/DH. At this point' date=' I'm leaning towards not going the FA route for RF. Kalish/Reddick combo isn't a horrible dropoff.[/quote']

 

It could be horrible MVP if we also resign Ortiz and are overloaded with left handed hitters again in a league where there are a lot of good southpaw pitchers. We need at least one more right handed bat in the lineup; for me two would be better. I don't know why there is so much negativity towards Cuddyer who I think would be a good two or three year addition to our lineup, not to mention the versatility be brings to the table. It could enable us to carry an additional pitcher, or catcher or outfielder if we had this guy and our offense would be more balanced. I also believe that is time we give Ryan Lavarnway a full shot at a spot in our lineup, most likely DH but maybe catcher if he show he's ready in ST.

[mvp 78]

Why would it be horrible? It had no discernable negative effect on offensive production last year.

 

Save $ on offense and spend on pitching, where help is actually needed.

[iortiz]

Yeah--it's all about pitching for next year. That's the key. They should make Maddux the manager and get Wilson. Buerhle is OK, too. I would look at who does better pitching in Fenway.

 

The pitching is where they should be spending their bucks.

 

Bingo.

 

Pitching, pitching, pitching! That's the name of this 2011-2012 offseason.

 

1. Bring at least a healthy and solid SP, 2. Sign Papelbon, 3. bring at least 3 proved BP arms and 4. pitching depth for God's sake.

 

That!, should be our priority; then... spend all the money you want in whoever you want.

 

If we do this and If Beckett or someone from our 1-3 SPs gets an injury or underperforms (likely IMO), we'd be kind of "covered", otherwise, be prepare for the same 2011 movie.

[InfernoOrangeSS]

But Beltre was not fragile.

 

I don't see the need for a fragile LH hitting outfielder.

 

I totally agree. I just meant I could see the Red Sox doing it if it was a contract like Beltre's. Where he gets a low cost year to prove himself. I don't like the fact of having another left handed bat added.

[Emmz]

I totally agree. I just meant I could see the Red Sox doing it if it was a contract like Beltre's. Where he gets a low cost year to prove himself. I don't like the fact of having another left handed bat added.

 

Beltre had proven himself for a long time before the Sox got him, and was only injured (he still played 100 games that year) for one season prior to his contract, and was mostly an above average hitter in Seattle, a place that kills offensive stats.

 

He was also a stud in the field, and was a totally low risk, most likely high reward type of player. Sizemore COULD be low risk for the right price, but the likelihood of the high reward just isn't very good with him. He hasn't been effective or able to play full-time for 3 years, so I'm not as for this idea as I was for Beltre. However, with that said, the reward for a 100% Sizemore is very very high. In his best days, he was a great offensive weapon. Lots of speed, lots of power, good on-base ability, from 2005-2008 he hit for a 128 OPS+ (.281/.372/.496).

 

I'm open to it for the right price, but he's not a good bet to produce the high reward like Beltre, or even close.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Run. Away. From. Sizemore.

 

Seriously. As fast as you can.

 

Why does this team need another LH outfielder who horrid splits vs LHP for the past 2 years?!?

 

The deal makes no sense. For $5-6mm that you'd be spending on Sizemore, why don't you go out and get some SP depth? Erik Bedard, Rich Harden, Mitch Talbot, Dontrelle Willis, Chris Young. I would rather have any of those pitchers over a gamble on Sizemore any day of the week. Signing Sizemore would be a horrid allocation of our money when our most obvious, glaring hole is in SP.

 

Revamp the bullpen with a guy like Kerry Wood (who killed it in the AL East in the last half of 2010), David Aardsma, and Mike Gonzalez.

 

Gonzalez is not the greatest RP, but he's got solid splits and could be a huge help in the bullpen when this team is having to navigate through some tough lefties, and maybe, just maybe, our new manager will know how to use a LOOGY.

[Emmz]

I would rather go after pitching as well, I'm not interested in Sizemore, but if he's cheap enough I wouldn't care. I'm not going to close my mind to a former .900 OPS type player just because he doesn't hit lefties, or because he is a lefty, especially if the price is good enough.

[User Name]

Run. Away. From. Sizemore.

 

 

Why does this team need another LH outfielder who horrid splits vs LHP for the past 2 years?!?

 

*Over his career.

 

Revamp the bullpen with a guy like Kerry Wood (who killed it in the AL East in the last half of 2010), David Aardsma, and Mike Gonzalez.

 

Wood is a pipe dream. He's been very vocal in saying that it's Cubs or bust.

 

 

I would rather go after pitching as well' date=' I'm not interested in Sizemore, but if he's cheap enough I wouldn't care. I'm not going to close my mind to a former .900 OPS type player just because he doesn't hit lefties, or because he is a lefty, especially if the price is good enough.[/quote']

 

Former is the key here. People assume he won't go back to that level of production with good reason. His legs are shot.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Wood is a pipe dream. He's been very vocal in saying that it's Cubs or bust.

 

It was just an example, there are quite a few quality relief pitchers out there that we can go after.

[Emmz]

Former is the key here. People assume he won't go back to that level of production with good reason. His legs are shot.

 

that's why it's for the right price. There's absolutely no reason not to sign someone to a low-risk high-reward contract, that's where those deals get their names from. I never said I would expect to see high results, but for the right price, you can sign anyone. No one thought Freddy Garcia or Bartolo Colon were going to be any good, those guys were considered "shot" as well. The Yanks scored big on a couple of guys who they got in the dumpster. Sizemore really has no value at this point, so he wouldn't cost much. It's sort of a matter of "why not?"

[Emmz]

I stress that I wouldn't pay anything substantial, I think pitching comes first for sure, but if the risk is low enough, then just go for it and see what happens. If you pay a few million or so for a 1-year bust, then so be it.

[User Name]

that's why it's for the right price. There's absolutely no reason not to sign someone to a low-risk high-reward contract' date=' that's where those deals get their names from. I never said I would expect to see high results, but for the right price, you can sign anyone. No one thought Freddy Garcia or Bartolo Colon were going to be any good, those guys were considered "shot" as well. The Yanks scored big on a couple of guys who they got in the dumpster. Sizemore really has no value at this point, so he wouldn't cost much. It's sort of a matter of "why not?"[/quote']

 

Colon was receiving an illegal hormone treatment, and Garcia was coming off a fairly decent year. Both were healthy.

 

There are many "why nots?" with Sizemore, with his inability to hit lefties, questionable health, and putrid stats the last couple of years.

 

However, if he were to sign for a really low base salary, he may be palatable, as you say. But will he? I'm betting someone gambles a salary in excess of $5 million (plus incentives) on the guy rebounding. That team should not be the Red Sox.

[Emmz]

I would not pay anything like that for him, but there's always a right price.

[iortiz]

Run. Away. From. Sizemore.

 

Seriously. As fast as you can.

 

Why does this team need another LH outfielder who horrid splits vs LHP for the past 2 years?!?

 

The deal makes no sense. For $5-6mm that you'd be spending on Sizemore, why don't you go out and get some SP depth? Erik Bedard, Rich Harden, Mitch Talbot, Dontrelle Willis, Chris Young. I would rather have any of those pitchers over a gamble on Sizemore any day of the week. Signing Sizemore would be a horrid allocation of our money when our most obvious, glaring hole is in SP.

 

Revamp the bullpen with a guy like Kerry Wood (who killed it in the AL East in the last half of 2010), David Aardsma, and Mike Gonzalez.

 

Gonzalez is not the greatest RP, but he's got solid splits and could be a huge help in the bullpen when this team is having to navigate through some tough lefties, and maybe, just maybe, our new manager will know how to use a LOOGY.

 

Exactly.

 

Maybe the wound (2011 pitching) still so fresh to me, but we need this badly. Besides, we already have Kalish and Redick. Again, as I've been saying, reinforce our goddamn pitching staff for once and for all.

[SoxSport]

Bingo.

 

Pitching, pitching, pitching! That's the name of this 2011-2012 offseason.

 

1. Bring at least a healthy and solid SP, 2. Sign Papelbon, 3. bring at least 3 proved BP arms and 4. pitching depth for God's sake.

 

That!, should be our priority; then... spend all the money you want in whoever you want.

 

If we do this and If Beckett or someone from our 1-3 SPs gets an injury or underperforms (likely IMO), we'd be kind of "covered", otherwise, be prepare for the same 2011 movie.

 

It happened in Monterrey, a long time ago.

I met her in Monterrey, in old Mexico.

Stars and steel guitars and luscious lips as red as wine.

Broke somebody's heart, and I'm afraid that it was mine.

 

It happened in Monterrey, and without thinkin' twice,

I left her and threw away the keys to paradise.

My indiscreet heart longs for the sweetheart

That I left in old Monterrey.

 

 

Let Papi walk, get the draft picks, and sign Wilson or Buerhle with the money saved.

 

You know the Yankees are going after Wilson.

[seabeachfred]

It happened in Monterrey, a long time ago.

I met her in Monterrey, in old Mexico.

Stars and steel guitars and luscious lips as red as wine.

Broke somebody's heart, and I'm afraid that it was mine.

 

It happened in Monterrey, and without thinkin' twice,

I left her and threw away the keys to paradise.

My indiscreet heart longs for the sweetheart

That I left in old Monterrey.

 

 

Let Papi walk, get the draft picks, and sign Wilson or Buerhle with the money saved.

 

You know the Yankees are going after Wilson.

 

Hadn't heard that song since Gene Autry, I think it was, sang it in one of his late 40's or early 50's movie Tells you how ancient I am.

 

Please Sox Sport, use your influence if you have any to stop this "sign Sizemore" nonsense. We don't need another left handed hitter in our already bulging left handed lineup, especially one who cannot hit left handers worth sh@t, and can't stay on the field for any length of time. Or maybe his MASH unit personality would fit in well with our walking wounded who can't seem to stay on the field either.

 

We need pitching and we need Papelbon resigned even if it means letting Papi walk. To resign Papi, and then sign Sizemore and then ignoring our pitching is idiotic. Run away in a sprint from any Sizemore signing, let Ortiz hit the trail, and get a RH htting outfielder like Cuddyer-----and then use all our resources to get us a solid No. 2 or 3 starter and two relievers, this time two effective bullpenners.

[iortiz]

It happened in Monterrey, a long time ago.

I met her in Monterrey, in old Mexico.

Stars and steel guitars and luscious lips as red as wine.

Broke somebody's heart, and I'm afraid that it was mine.

 

It happened in Monterrey, and without thinkin' twice,

I left her and threw away the keys to paradise.

My indiscreet heart longs for the sweetheart

That I left in old Monterrey.

 

 

Let Papi walk, get the draft picks, and sign Wilson or Buerhle with the money saved.

 

You know the Yankees are going after Wilson.

 

You just earned a bottle of tequila compadre!

 

Edit. BTW I just ordered a bottle in this cantina on your behalf :thumbsup: