Speculation: Grady Sizemore

[User Name]

Buxhholz has his injury concerns with his back. Thats kind of kills some of his value' date=' I'm not saying he's worthless but he's def not worth what he was this time last year.[/quote']

 

What's this even supposed to mean?

 

Bucholz had a clean bill of health for the playoffs had the Sox made it while Ethier was undergoing knee surgery.

[jung]

Boy hard to see where this sort of injury (if proven recovered from) would change his value especially in this day and age of teams taking all kinds of risks when SP is involved.

 

As for Sizemore, I can't see the Sox going near him even with a performance based contract. He would be a distraction from the business at hand I think and they need position players that can stay off the DL. In their case not paying him because his contract would be performance based is only part of the problem.

[SoxFanForsyth]

From what I saw this year in LF , that wouldn't be a great idea.

I wouldn't move him to a more difficult position when he struggled with his current one

 

I definitely considered this, but I think that he struggled in LF because of the wall. If we open him up and give him some room to run, I think he'll do just fine. Also, a lot of guys struggle defensively when they're struggling offensively, which I think was the case here.

 

Either way, I don't think we should run away from him defensively speaking because he had a tough transition year. And if we could get some high value for Ellsbury, I'd be willing to at least see what he could do in CF.

[Emmz]

I don't understand people's fixation with Cuddyer. Most of his value comes from his versatility. He's not that good a hitter.

 

Since 2006, he's been at 115 OPS+, (.275/.347/.459) and that counts for his injured 2008 season. He's definitely an above-average hitter.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Since 2006' date=' he's been at 115 OPS+, (.275/.347/.459) and that counts for his injured 2008 season. He's definitely an above-average hitter.[/quote']

 

Yup. Cuddyer is an above average hitter. In terms of projecting future performance, I think going back to 06 is a bit too far (although I think you were just going back to 06 to show that he's been an above average hitter for the past few years). Either way, in 2010 and 2011, he had an OPS+ of 113, including an OPS+ of 121 in 2011.

 

And let's not forget, Target Field is not the best hitters park in the game (See: Joe Mauer)

[Laser Show]

From what I saw this year in LF , that wouldn't be a great idea.

I wouldn't move him to a more difficult position when he struggled with his current one

 

I disagree with this. Most of Crawford's value comes from his speed. In CF at Fenway, he would have a chance to actually showcase it. If you remember, our last couple of LFs have been Manny and Bay, neither of which is the fleetest of foot or best defenders. From what I've seen from going to games and watching them, our LFs are nearly equivalent to other teams RFs. They don't have to be fast and only need to get the ball to the infield quickly. Crawford, even in Fenway's spacious RF, would be able to show his speed. I just feel his talent is being completely wasted playing our LF.

 

Signing Sizemore or Beltran to play RF would be a bad idea as they've lost a step and are injury risks. IF they sign either of them, I'd hope it would be for LF.

[Palodios]

Since 2006' date=' he's been at 115 OPS+, (.275/.347/.459) and that counts for his injured 2008 season. He's definitely an above-average hitter.[/quote']

 

I've heard reports that he's going to get somewhere from 30-50 million. That cost may be prohibitive for the Sox.

[a700hitter]

I've heard reports that he's going to get somewhere from 30-50 million. That cost may be prohibitive for the Sox.

Cost should not be a major consideration for the Red Sox this off season. They need to return the team to prominence quickly. Missing the playoffs two seasons in a row and last season's debacle damaged the franchise. If there are no meaning full games in late August or September 2012, the damage could start hitting their bottom line.

[Palodios]

Cost should not be a major consideration for the Red Sox this off season. They need to return the team to prominence quickly. Missing the playoffs two seasons in a row and last season's debacle damaged the franchise. If there are no meaning full games in late August or September 2012' date=' the damage could start hitting their bottom line.[/quote']

 

I agree, but I don't think they have an unlimited supply of money. I'd rather spend 30-50 million on Buerhle than Cuddyer.

[Emmz]

Yup. Cuddyer is an above average hitter. In terms of projecting future performance, I think going back to 06 is a bit too far (although I think you were just going back to 06 to show that he's been an above average hitter for the past few years). Either way, in 2010 and 2011, he had an OPS+ of 113, including an OPS+ of 121 in 2011.

 

And let's not forget, Target Field is not the best hitters park in the game (See: Joe Mauer)

 

Mauer had 0 chance to hit 30 homers again even at the MetroDome, he's going to win some more batting titles, though. OPS+ is somewhat ballpark adjusted OPS though, and 115 is a very good place to be. I chose 2006 because that's when he really became the player he is today, everyday guy who's got the ability to produce a lot.

 

I've heard reports that he's going to get somewhere from 30-50 million. That cost may be prohibitive for the Sox.

 

I wouldn't pay a super high amount for him, I'm just trying to show that it's absolutely ridiculous to say he's not a very good hitter.

[a700hitter]

I agree' date=' but I don't think they have an unlimited supply of money. I'd rather spend 30-50 million on Buerhle than Cuddyer.[/quote']I think they have a plan, and they will execute that plan. I think it will be a costly plan for payroll, but ultimately the right thing to do to preserve the franchise that they have carefully built since taking ownership.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Don't kill me for this, it's completely off topic, but isn't there some kind of superlative thing at the end of the year? Talksox poster of the year, Negative Nancy of the year, etc?

[Palodios]

I wouldn't pay a super high amount for him' date=' I'm just trying to show that it's absolutely ridiculous to say he's not a very good hitter.[/quote']

 

Absolutely. He's definitely a good hitter. I just don't think he fits with the Red Sox how things stand right now.

[Emmz]

Don't kill me for this' date=' it's completely off topic, but isn't there some kind of superlative thing at the end of the year? Talksox poster of the year, Negative Nancy of the year, etc?[/quote']

 

I would've posted this in H11AM or somewhere more general, but yeah they have something like that, usually in December.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Good call. I had no idea where to put it. Thanks Emmz.

[Emmz]

http://www.talksox.com/forum/general-off-topic-chat/14910-official-2010-talksox-awards.html

[User Name]

Since 2006' date=' he's been at 115 OPS+, (.275/.347/.459) and that counts for his injured 2008 season. He's definitely an above-average hitter.[/quote']

 

Context.

 

OPS+ accounts somewhat for ballpark, but not positional value. An .805 OPS (since 2006) for a corner outfielder is nothing more than "decent", and definitely not worth 40 million.

 

He's not that good.

[Emmz]

Context.

 

OPS+ accounts somewhat for ballpark, but not positional value. An .805 OPS (since 2006) for a corner outfielder is nothing more than "decent", and definitely not worth 40 million.

 

He's not that good.

 

His hitting is a fair amount above average, the stats show this, and you said nothing about the price tag, you just said (inaccurately) that he's not a very good hitter.

[User Name]

His hitting is a fair amount above average' date=' the stats show this, and you said nothing about the price tag, you just said (inaccurately) that he's not a very good hitter.[/quote']

 

If i recall correctly "He's not that good a hitter" (implying he's not that good a hitter, and he's being overrated) and "He's not a very good hitter" (implying he sucks) are two very different things.

 

Again, he's just slightly above average for a corner outfielder, dollar value or no dollar value.

 

I have two questions:

 

Do you consider an .830 OPS first baseman to be an "above average hitter"?

 

Would you pay $13 mill a year for Cuddyer?

[a700hitter]

I think Cuddyer would be a good addition, but I'd rather have Carlos Beltran. Cuddyer is solid, but Beltran is a stud.

[Emmz]

If i recall correctly "He's not that good a hitter" (implying he's not that good a hitter, and he's being overrated) and "He's not a very good hitter" (implying he sucks) are two very different things.

 

Again, he's just slightly above average for a corner outfielder, dollar value or no dollar value.

 

I have two questions:

 

Do you consider an .830 OPS first baseman to be an "above average hitter"?

 

Would you pay $13 mill a year for Cuddyer?

 

1. They're both the same thing in text, but I'm not going to pretend to know what you were thinking.

 

2. I didn't see you say anything about him being above average for a corner outfielder, just that he wasn't that good of a hitter.

 

3. I would consider .830 OPS above average anywhere, easily. It's catcher and everything else as far as offensive values by position goes, that's about it really.

 

4. Not sure if I would, but he's above average, and not just slightly, but by a fair amount.

[Emmz]

I think Cuddyer would be a good addition' date=' but I'd rather have Carlos Beltran. Cuddyer is solid, but Beltran is a stud.[/quote']

 

Agreed.

[User Name]

Josh Willingham?

 

.839 OPS, 125 OPS+, 7.1 WAR since 2009.

[mvp 78]

Beltran is a big question mark. He could either be a legit MVP candidate or an injured OF/DH. At this point, I'm leaning towards not going the FA route for RF. Kalish/Reddick combo isn't a horrible dropoff.

[Dojji]

Willingham would be an interesting choice if Crawford could play right field. Because Willingham can't. Not at Fenway anyway.

[mvp 78]

How's CC's arm? Good enough for RF in Fenway? Certainly his speed would be better used there. He looked timid playing the wall last year.

[User Name]

How's CC's arm? Good enough for RF in Fenway? Certainly his speed would be better used there. He looked timid playing the wall last year.

 

What do you think of Willingham?

 

Guy can flat-out hit, healthy, but his D isn't that good.

[a700hitter]

Beltran is a big question mark. He could either be a legit MVP candidate or an injured OF/DH. At this point' date=' I'm leaning towards not going the FA route for RF. Kalish/Reddick combo isn't a horrible dropoff.[/quote']I would keep Kalish/Reddick as the 4th OFer. Keep one and trade the other or send the other one to AAA as injury insurance. Kalish and Reddick are a huge drop off from Beltran.

[WhiskeyBreath]

Josh Willingham?

 

.839 OPS, 125 OPS+, 7.1 WAR since 2009.

 

No thanks on Willingham. 33 year old outfielder who isn't very good with the glove. Add in the fact that he misses a lot of games and he's a Type A guy looking for 3 years and he's a pass for me.

[mvp 78]

What do you think of Willingham?

 

Guy can flat-out hit, healthy, but his D isn't that good.

 

Would still rather Kalish/Reddick and spend $ on pitching.