Carl Crawford

[VA Sox Fan]

Wow. Exactly.

 

I have a theory. The reason why the media drags every player or prominent Red Sox figure through the coals is because most Red Sox fans have become spoiled prima donnas and eat the stories up.

 

Epstein wasn't as good as a lot of people proclaimed him to be, but he was good, and brought two WS titles to Boston, Duquette's players involved or no Duquette's players involved. Sox fans have become just as bad, if not worse, than the Yankee fans they love to criticize and berate.

 

Well they threw A LOT of prior players including Mo Vaughan and Nomar under the bus. It's what they do.

 

At any rate, I agree. Our current fan base is at an all time low. My head is about to explode with some of these posts. Night all.

[jung]

Once comfortable, I think he gets back into the 40+ walk range. This yr, though, nobody needed to walk him. He was the weak link and everyone went after him

 

Whoa there big fella' not so fast. Crawford chased bad pitch after bad pitch and became the biggest sucker for balls starting at his knees and moving lower and away from him that I have ever seen at least for someone with real talent which Carl has. Both his batting average and the number of walks will improve if he does not chase so many bad pitches and gets ahead in counts for a change. Surely it is the task of all pitchers to fool the batter but it got way out of control for Carl this past season.

 

However as I have noted previously, chasing balls low and away should be easier to solve than chasing after rising fastballs so Carl has a good shot at it....I hope!

[mvp 78]

If I'm Ben, I sit down with CC this year and say "I wanted you here. I know what you can do. Play like you did in TB. Don't worry about trying to live up to $20M numbers. We're paying you that much to perform like you did in TB. You don't need to be a 25/100 guy. Be yourself. Use your speed. Get dirty and the fans will love you. They don't careabout the money, they just want to see you hustle day in and day out. Be a leader. Lead by example. You work harder than anyone else. If other players aren't falling in line, let them know. I'll have your back no matter what."

[SoxSport]

If I'm Ben' date=' I sit down with CC this year and say "I wanted you here. I know what you can do. Play like you did in TB. Don't worry about trying to live up to $20M numbers. We're paying you that much to perform like you did in TB. You don't need to be a 25/100 guy. Be yourself.[b'] Use your speed[/b]. Get dirty and the fans will love you. They don't careabout the money, they just want to see you hustle day in and day out. Be a leader. Lead by example. You work harder than anyone else. If other players aren't falling in line, let them know. I'll have your back no matter what."

 

Better said than done in Boston.

 

Sabermetrics says stolen bases aren't worth the risk of making an out.

But are they?

 

the formula: SBRuns= .3SB - .6CS

 

I.E. a SB is worth about .3 Runs; if you get caught stealing, subtract .6 runs.

simple to see: you have to steal 3 bases to make a run; but you get caught stealing, you lose a base AND make an out.

 

Last year the Sox scored about 5 runs from stolen bases, but had 33 runs scored against them on stolen bases. That's a net of 28 runs scored by opponents on SBs. A whopping 312 SB attempts by opponents (76% success!), compared to a mere 102 by Boston (71 % success)

 

Since the Sox scored 138 more runs than their opponents last year, -28 runs is a big chunk of net runs, about 20%.

 

The bottom line is other teams are using SBs against them much better than they are.

 

With Kalish, another speedburner, added to the lineup with Ells and CC, they better get on their horses this year. And hold runners on base better.

[jung]

The Sox face the double whammy of pitchers that have not held runners on and a catcher that can't throw anyway. Once that got around the league teams came here looking to burn up the base paths and you had guys not even known for running bounding up the base path like a herd of lumbering elephants. The surprise is that we did not get Peddey or whoever had SS on a given day killed in the process.

 

Sox will probably have to do something pretty early on in 2012 to change that or teams will be running from Logan airport to second base.

[mvp 78]

I don't care about SB's. Use the speed in the OF, run the bases well. It's all fans care about. Hustle every AB. Dive in the OF. It goes a long way to show fans you care.

[jung]

I don't care about SB's. Use the speed in the OF, run the bases well. It's all fans care about. Hustle every AB. Dive in the OF. It goes a long way to show fans you care.

 

As far as Sox running is concerned I tend to agree with you here. There is much more to being a "running" team on the base paths than having guys that can steal. If you really want to make that pay off you have to be able to do a pretty good job of hitting behind runners, bunting, hit and run and the Sox just never have regardless of who owns them, who manages them etc. Sox don't even Sac Fly that well. As I said earlier I don't think some of these other teams would have come in here running as much were it not for the combination of pitchers and catchers we had in 2011.

[User Name]

What's this Soxsport guy trying to say?

 

Ellsbury was around the league leaders in SB's for consecutive seasons, with Pedroia stealing around 20 every healthy season in the MLB, those guys always have the green light, and so did Crawford.

 

I honestly don't understand the "Red Sox do everything by the James Bible" rhetoric.

[Dojji]

Yeah the issue is more SBA than SB. We were run on quite a bit this year because runners don't fear Tek's arm anymore and Salty is a work in progress defensively (he has a good arm, but his technique needs a lot of work).

 

The real solution is a better catch-and-throw guy behind the plate. Since we insist on hitters at that position though it's not all that likely to happen.

[User Name]

Doesn't Lavarnway have a real strong arm though?

[Laser Show]

Doesn't Lavarnway have a real strong arm though?

 

Possibly, but he is a work in progress behind the plate, which is 1 reason he is being groomed for the DH role.

[Dojji]

Disagree that he's being groomed for the DH role. This organization has proven unafraid to go to him as a catcher.

 

I think he's being groomed to ultimately be our primary catcher, but it's going to be a project, much like it was with Tek.

[jung]

Lavarnway appears to have a much better arm from the limited time I have seen him and appears to have a marginally quicker release than Salty. It is not a release anything like Yadi's but at least it is a fairly fluid motion and he gets something on the ball. Salty has to fully raise up, step and the ball still tails off, fading right. Wish I could have seen more of Lavarnway but what I saw was a marked improvement.

 

I am not sure how willing our new manager will be in giving Lavarnway the bulk of the work but if he proves out in the spring I would want to see him getting the bulk of the work assuming the other option is Salty.

[User Name]

His biggest knock seems to be the handling of pitches after they've been delivered. He supposedly "stabs at them", but if anything's fixable on a catcher, it's his approach on glovework.

[jung]

His biggest knock seems to be the handling of pitches after they've been delivered. He supposedly "stabs at them", but if anything's fixable on a catcher, it's his approach on glovework.

 

That might be so for Lavarnway. I did not notice that but the time I actually got to see him catch was so short. However, Salty is also about the worst offender I have seen in that regard as well. I am not sure which looks worse, Salty trying to catch it or trying to block it.

[User Name]

I still think Salty gets a lot of undue hatred. It was his first full year as a catcher in the Majors, and he made improvements as the season wore on.

 

Doesn't mean i want him starting for the Sox though.

[Laser Show]

Salty definitely isn't built in the Yadier Molina mold. I'd give up the farm for that man.

[v2freak]

If he put up Scutaro-level numbers from this past season next year, I'd be happy.

[SoxSport]

I think the stealing is more on the pitchers than the catchers. The Red Sox pitchers don't hold runners on base very well--I suspect that's their policy with that slide-step? delivery.The Sox simply don't value the stolen base--even to defend against. I showed that was pretty stupid in the SB-Run stats I posted above. They gave away 33 runs last year just on stolen bases. About .2 runs per game. That's significant on a pitcher's ERA.

 

Did you notice Napoli throwing out all those Cardinal runners? That's because the Texas pitchers are holding the runners on, and they aren't getting good jumps.

Both these clubs are much better coached than the Red Sox.

[seabeachfred]

Better said than done in Boston.

 

Sabermetrics says stolen bases aren't worth the risk of making an out.

But are they?

 

the formula: SBRuns= .3SB - .6CS

 

I.E. a SB is worth about .3 Runs; if you get caught stealing, subtract .6 runs.

simple to see: you have to steal 3 bases to make a run; but you get caught stealing, you lose a base AND make an out.

 

Last year the Sox scored about 5 runs from stolen bases, but had 33 runs scored against them on stolen bases. That's a net of 28 runs scored by opponents on SBs. A whopping 312 SB attempts by opponents (76% success!), compared to a mere 102 by Boston (71 % success)

 

Since the Sox scored 138 more runs than their opponents last year, -28 runs is a big chunk of net runs, about 20%.

 

The bottom line is other teams are using SBs against them much better than they are.

 

With Kalish, another speedburner, added to the lineup with Ells and CC, they better get on their horses this year. And hold runners on base better.

 

That's one of the frustrating things being a Red Sox fan. They don't think the stolen base is a good offensive weapon and they turn that misdimeanor into a felony by saying the stolen base used against them isn't important. To be that pure bulls@it!!!! There were figures presented to show the run differential that works against us with that stupid philosophy. We have some speed now and we need to utilize it---stealing, run and hitting, hit and running, taking the extra base. FrancoMa was brutal in this regard because he was a slave to the station-to-station philosophy that only led us into leading the league in hitting into double plays or a close second year after year. Don't give them one out, give them two.

 

One other point with this wrong headed philosophy. If the opposition knows you are playing that kind of a plodding game their pitchers and fielders can concentrate only on the batter and have nothing else to worry about. A manager like Maddon has his team doing everything under the sun to win and that forces the pitcher to worry about the base runner(s) as well as the batter and the fielders must do the same. I hope the new manager will see how bad this has worked against us and change the thinking. If it turns out to be David Martinez, Maddon's right hand man, it should. But, please, not another FrancoMa type.:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown

[mvp 78]

The last time the Sox tried to be a "running team" (in terms of sb's) was under Hobson. Since then, they've been station to station. (even won a few WS too)

[SoxSport]

That's one of the frustrating things being a Red Sox fan. They don't think the stolen base is a good offensive weapon and they turn that misdimeanor into a felony by saying the stolen base used against them isn't important. To be that pure bulls@it!!!! There were figures presented to show the run differential that works against us with that stupid philosophy. We have some speed now and we need to utilize it---stealing, run and hitting, hit and running, taking the extra base. FrancoMa was brutal in this regard because he was a slave to the station-to-station philosophy that only led us into leading the league in hitting into double plays or a close second year after year. Don't give them one out, give them two.

 

One other point with this wrong headed philosophy. If the opposition knows you are playing that kind of a plodding game their pitchers and fielders can concentrate only on the batter and have nothing else to worry about. A manager like Maddon has his team doing everything under the sun to win and that forces the pitcher to worry about the base runner(s) as well as the batter and the fielders must do the same. I hope the new manager will see how bad this has worked against us and change the thinking. If it turns out to be David Martinez, Maddon's right hand man, it should. But, please, not another FrancoMa type.:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown

 

Glad you noticed that. Too bad this stuff flies above the heads of those Globe guys.

And they get paid.

 

The Sox have a lot of dysfunction regarding fundamentals. I'm still trying to figure out why they paid a king's ransom for such a low OBP, low power guy like Crawford. Billie Beane must have flinched when he saw that. A definite sign of Epstein's values in decline. Imagine getting a stolen base guy for a team that doesn't value stolen bases. Wow.

[jacksonianmarch]

I still think Salty gets a lot of undue hatred. It was his first full year as a catcher in the Majors, and he made improvements as the season wore on.

 

Doesn't mean i want him starting for the Sox though.

 

Defense got a little better, offense got a lot worse. He's a marginal starting C in the AL

[seabeachfred]

The last time the Sox tried to be a "running team" (in terms of sb's) was under Hobson. Since then' date=' they've been station to station. (even won a few WS too)[/quote']

 

Yes we have won two World Series as a station-to-station baseball team, but we have lost a lot of games we might have won if runners would have been turned loose, if we would have stressed taking the extra base, used the hit and run to more effect. Speed isn't just stolen bases as you well know, but a part of the overall philosophical bent of an organization. In 2004 we had a power laded team that could score at will, a pretty good starting staff and a damn good bullpen led by closer Keith Foulke. Fast forward to 2007 and we had a very solid hitting team (not as much power as '04), a good bullpen and a decent starting staff. We might have been able to get away with station-to-station in those years, but when I watch the Red Sox on my computer continue to hit into rally killing double plays at an alarming rate, I would think someone upstairs or in the dugout would understand that this has not been working for us the past three years, and, in fact, might have cost us a league title in 2008.

 

I also mentioned the pressure it puts on other teams just for the fact that they have to be extra alert for whatever comes down. We've been so predictable that it seems no teams fears us when we get a runner or two on base. Look at the Rays. Yes, they have very good pitching but they don't score tons of runs but they manufacture them with the best of them. I don't say we should transfer over and play that type of game all the time, but for God's sake a little variety from the common thread would be refreshing and maybe effective for eeking out a few extra wins a year.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[seabeachfred]

Glad you noticed that. Too bad this stuff flies above the heads of those Globe guys.

And they get paid.

 

The Sox have a lot of dysfunction regarding fundamentals. I'm still trying to figure out why they paid a king's ransom for such a low OBP, low power guy like Crawford. Billie Beane must have flinched when he saw that. A definite sign of Epstein's values in decline. Imagine getting a stolen base guy for a team that doesn't value stolen bases. Wow.

 

Sox Sport---Word is out that Dave Martinez is high on the list of a potential manager for our team, and we was Joe Maddon's right hand man for years. I'm certain if he is hired he will bring a little derring-do to the Red Sox. Just to let the other teams know that we have the potential to steal, hit and run, run and hit and take the extra base, is enough to allow them to worry about more than just watching the batter. FrancoMa was a disaster in this regard but what might not be too well known was that he was the same way in his four dismal years in Philadelphia, a league where more small ball and a running game are more often emphasized. Well, we will see. When you have Ellsbury, Pedroia and Crawford you have speed. Hell, use it. It is another weapon for us and could help win some of those close games we've been losing the past few years.

[SoxSport]

Yes we have won two World Series as a station-to-station baseball team' date='[/b'] but we have lost a lot of games we might have won if runners would have been turned loose, if we would have stressed taking the extra base, used the hit and run to more effect. Speed isn't just stolen bases as you well know, but a part of the overall philosophical bent of an organization. In 2004 we had a power laded team that could score at will, a pretty good starting staff and a damn good bullpen led by closer Keith Foulke. Fast forward to 2007 and we had a very solid hitting team (not as much power as '04), a good bullpen and a decent starting staff. We might have been able to get away with station-to-station in those years, but when I watch the Red Sox on my computer continue to hit into rally killing double plays at an alarming rate, I would think someone upstairs or in the dugout would understand that this has not been working for us the past three years, and, in fact, might have cost us a league title in 2008.

 

I also mentioned the pressure it puts on other teams just for the fact that they have to be extra alert for whatever comes down. We've been so predictable that it seems no teams fears us when we get a runner or two on base. Look at the Rays. Yes, they have very good pitching but they don't score tons of runs but they manufacture them with the best of them. I don't say we should transfer over and play that type of game all the time, but for God's sake a little variety from the common thread would be refreshing and maybe effective for eeking out a few extra wins a year.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

Bingo.

 

The problem is sabermetrics. It's a conflict between scoring runs and minimizing outs.

Sometimes, it's beneficial to risk an out to score a run--especially in close games--by trying to get the extra base and move a runner into scoring position--a higher chance to score.

 

They wouldn't have gotten to the 04 world series, for example, if Roberts hadn't stole 2B against the Yankees in the 9th. You can't be too rigidly ideological--in sports or politics. Stolen bases, for example, are sometimes worth the risk of an out. Sabermetrics is good, but has to be used properly--just like pitch counts. The Sox haven't quite figured out the the right balance. Especially with stolen bases and pitch counts.

 

The stolen base issue will come to a head next year with Ells, Kalish, CC and Pedey in the lineup. They have to make speed a weapon. Absolutely.

[User Name]

There's something to be said about consistency in anything. Including posting on a forum.

[jung]

The stolen base issue will come to a head next year with Ells, Kalish, CC and Pedey in the lineup. They have to make speed a weapon. Absolutely.

 

Hopefully a more effective approach to offense might be one of the benefits we will see out of a complete house cleaning of the coaching staff and manager (although I think I would like to see the hitting coach stay). This will not be easy though. There are a whole bunch of things that they have not been doing or even practicing to do. That much is clear. Speed just allows you to decide to play the game a certain way offensively but if you don't practice it that way and if your mindset is contrary, speed alone won't get you to second base.

 

For example, while the Sox were just about the worst team I saw at holding runners on, that does not mean that every other pitcher in baseball is exemplary in that regard. Yet the Sox tend to get terrible jumps when they do try to steal. I think somebody has said this already but eventually the Sox were ridiculously predictable in their offensive tendencies. While I don't expect them to come out in 2012 sporting some NL fleet footed team approach to running it will take work just to become a more balanced team.

[SoxSport]

Sox Sport---Word is out that Dave Martinez is high on the list of a potential manager for our team' date=' and we was Joe Maddon's right hand man for years[/b']. I'm certain if he is hired he will bring a little derring-do to the Red Sox. Just to let the other teams know that we have the potential to steal, hit and run, run and hit and take the extra base, is enough to allow them to worry about more than just watching the batter. FrancoMa was a disaster in this regard but what might not be too well known was that he was the same way in his four dismal years in Philadelphia, a league where more small ball and a running game are more often emphasized. Well, we will see. When you have Ellsbury, Pedroia and Crawford you have speed. Hell, use it. It is another weapon for us and could help win some of those close games we've been losing the past few years.

 

I have been saying this is a no-brainer. Turning CC around is the team's biggest priority.

A $140M investment. Do you think Henry sees that, too? I would think so.

[MANNYHOF24]

Defense got a little better' date=' offense got a lot worse. He's a marginal starting C in the AL[/quote']

 

Just from the naked eye test, his defense was horrible in september. In my opinion it was one of the main reasons for the teams terrible play.