Josh Beckett

[La Munson]

I dont know if the Giants would be so quick to want to let him go.

 

I don't know, they didn't make the playoffs after a spectacular playoff run, their offense is just pathetic, and their pitching is great.

 

If there was a time to do a trade for Lincecum, it would be now.

[3rdManOut]

I don't know, they didn't make the playoffs after a spectacular playoff run, their offense is just pathetic, and their pitching is great.

 

If there was a time to do a trade for Lincecum, it would be now.

 

You are probably right. I didnt know it was that bad over there. Ok, so it could be a far off possibility?

[FredLynn]

You are probably right. I didnt know it was that bad over there. Ok' date=' so it could be a far off possibility?[/quote']

 

I live out here in SF Giants territory. I cannot see them trading Lincecum for anyone. They would like to keep their core of great SP intact.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I hate the beer drinking just as much as you guys but that can be fixed. We're going to give up an important part of the team because he does stupid silly little fixable things? You guys are quick on the hook.

 

But hey if you guys want to trade him 2012 is the year to do it. Trade value is still pretty high and it's an even numbered year. Somehow he doesn't play as good in even numbered years. BTW this is sarcasm. I wouldn't trade Beckett.

[3rdManOut]

Hmmmm ok well there goes that thought. What about the Marlins? Think they would want Beckett back? I dont know Im just shooting off beat ideas here.

[3rdManOut]

I hate the beer drinking just as much as you guys but that can be fixed. We're going to give up an important part of the team because he does stupid silly little fixable things? You guys are quick on the hook. QUOTE]

 

But I dont think its just the beer drinking and chicken. I have a feeling thats just the tip of the iceberg. Im assuming his attitude in general is the major factor.

[FredLynn]

Hmmmm ok well there goes that thought. What about the Marlins? Think they would want Beckett back? I dont know Im just shooting off beat ideas here.

 

I don't think that its realistic to expect Beckett to be going anywhere. We could certainly use a pitcher that is better than Beckett/Lester. Those kinds of pitchers will become available after next season. This year should be a rebuilding year. We ought to be positioning ourselves for a run in 2013.

If I were the new GM I would tell Beckett that he needs to apologize publicly for his role in the antics that went on this year and that he needs to promise publicly that it won't be repeated and that he will be working his butt off make amends for his bad behavior. If he did that I would be willing to give him a second chance.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I hate the beer drinking just as much as you guys but that can be fixed. We're going to give up an important part of the team because he does stupid silly little fixable things? You guys are quick on the hook. QUOTE]

 

But I dont think its just the beer drinking and chicken. I have a feeling thats just the tip of the iceberg. Im assuming his attitude in general is the major factor.

 

I know Beckett isn't the nicest guy around but is his attitude that bad? Do our players have a lot of problems with him or is he just a dick all around?

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Hmmmm ok well there goes that thought. What about the Marlins? Think they would want Beckett back? I dont know Im just shooting off beat ideas here.

 

I'm down to play fantasy GM

 

Say the Marlins GM says "I hate Hanley take em back. Give me Beckett and he's yours." Would you do it?

[3rdManOut]

I'm down to play fantasy GM

 

Say the Marlins GM says "I hate Hanley take em back. Give me Beckett and he's yours." Would you do it?

 

Ok ok, I never looked at it that way. I see where your going with this. Very good point indeed. Oh and um...hell no I wouldnt take Hanley back.

[jung]

The ever brand conscience Sox top brass will not be happy seeing what happens when and if Beckett is introduced on 2012 opening day right in the middle of their big 100 years PR blitz. He is going to be booed out of the park as will Lackey if he is still around as will a few other of these clowns. That is an issue that top brass will not take lightly as trivial as it might seem to you or I.

 

I don't see rotating Sox manning an fan ass kissing kiosk set up in Kenmore Square but don't expect Henry et al to just sit back and let the boos rain down.

[La Munson]

 

I know Beckett isn't the nicest guy around but is his attitude that bad? Do our players have a lot of problems with him or is he just a dick all around?

 

I think it's mainly the supposed effects on the rest of the clubhouse, especially the pitching staff, which again could be lessened by a manger, or other players, keeping everything in tact.

 

There's no reason to trade Beckett, we need as much pitching as we can going into 2011.

[BossSox]

 

I think it's mainly the supposed effects on the rest of the clubhouse, especially the pitching staff, which again could be lessened by a manger, or other players, keeping everything in tact.

 

There's no reason to trade Beckett, we need as much pitching as we can going into 2011.

Bingo.

[Elktonnick]

I see a campaign building among the Boston sports writers to drive Beckett out of town. The other knock on Beckett is that he doesn't have two good years in a row. While one can argue that until September he was having a very good year, many don't think he will duplicate it next year. I think the FO will try and deal Beckett if they can. They may not be able to but they'll be trying.

[VA Sox Fan]

Trading Josh Beckett would be a mistake

 

Posted by Peter Abraham, Globe Staff October 13, 2011 02:29 PM

By Peter Abraham, Globe Staff

 

Don't trade Josh Beckett. It's a bad idea. You're angry with him enough to send emails, call radio stations and curse his name. But take a step back.

 

Beckett had a 2.89 earned run average and a 1.02 WHIP over 193 innings. The Red Sox were 20-10 in games he started. Beckett also has two World Series rings and a 3.07 ERA in 93.2 career postseason innings.

 

The Red Sox are in no position to get rid of good starting pitchers. Beckett took the ball 30 times and 24 times he allowed three earned runs or less.

 

Beyond that, you'll never get close to equal value in return for him. Beckett earned his 10/5 no-trade rights last season and can either refuse a trade or dictate where he goes. So that will cut down the market.

 

The Red Sox already need to find at least one decent start via trade or free agency. Getting two would be incredibly difficult.

 

Beckett can be a pain in the neck and he was wrong to hang around the clubhouse drinking beer when games were being played. But that can be fixed.

 

Beckett looked up to John Lackey and it's my belief that Lackey poisoned the well and was more the ringleader than Beckett was. Get rid of Lackey what whatever the cost and take away Beckett's playmate. Get a manager who will enforce the basic rules of conduct. Get a pitching coach who will stand up to him and Beckett will do his job.

 

The Red Sox lost because their starting pitching was atrocious. Trading Beckett makes that problem worse. The idea is to win games, not exact revenge.

 

Beckett didn't get drunk and drive through an orphanage in a dump truck. He had a few pops in the clubhouse during the game. It was wrong and he needs a kick in the butt. But you don't trade somebody for that.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Abraham on the money.

[Elktonnick]

Tomase in the Hearld this am took the opposite position. Lou Merloni, Schilling on D&C were touting the same as Tomase. Abraham basically puts the blame on Lackey, excusing Beckett in the process. I smell the FO trying to salvage some of the debris from this trainwreck.

[FredLynn]

I see a campaign building among the Boston sports writers to drive Beckett out of town. The other knock on Beckett is that he doesn't have two good years in a row. While one can argue that until September he was having a very good year' date=' many don't think he will duplicate it next year. I think the FO will try and deal Beckett if they can. They may not be able to but they'll be trying.[/quote']

 

Seems like they are trying to drive a good part of the team out of town ELK. This will all settle down. An apology would be nice; that would smooth things over. And Beckett is going nowhere.

[jung]

This is why I keep insisting that the Sox have to find a way to move Lackey. You cannot start the year with both Lackey and Beckett still in Red Sox and we would get good value for Beckett but not full value. We keep looking at the dollars we would have to eat on Lackey's contract in an absolute sense and arguing that it is too much money to eat. Well if you have to move one or the other add to the equation the negative impact from not getting full value for Beckett.

 

In my view even if the Sox had to eat all but $5M per year, getting Lackey out of here would be worth it. Just look at when the swamp gas really starting oozing out of the Sox clubhouse and trace it back to who came when. The clubhouse started going downhill gradually from the day Lackey got here. He is clubhouse poison and not much of a pitcher to boot. However I keep saying that he could be moved if we would eat most of his contract based on the give the guy a change of scenery pitch because somebody will take a shot at him for a measly $5M or even $7M.

 

Almost nobody agrees with me and I can see why so I keep penciling Lackey in for 2012 as one of the few guys you can bank on staying but having him here just makes everything else you try to do for SP so much more difficult to try to put together. How long are we going to keep letting this guy screw s*** up?

 

I don't mean to imply that I am not disappointed in Beckett but for crying out loud lets face facts. We would rather have Beckett than get short changed on him in a trade so that we could do what? Keep Lackey because we don't want to eat his contract!! Come on.

 

I will say this...this is not going to smooth over. This is the worst collapse in baseball history and while nobody in the media is going to touch this with a ten foot pole what really happened here was as close to a work stoppage as you are ever going to see from players on a baseball team. They stopped playing! If they could have completely stopped playing and still have been paid, they would have. Not suiting up or not passing a drug test are really the only things that will prevent a pro baseball player from getting what his contract says he will get. Why did they stop?..... In protest over 14 out of 17 games being away with a doubleheader being the straw that broke the camel's back. Poor babies.

 

So this will not smooth over and there will be guys not here next year but please lets not toss Beckett because of the money we are going to eat on Lackey.

[Elktonnick]

Seems like they are trying to drive a good part of the team out of town ELK. This will all settle down. An apology would be nice; that would smooth things over. And Beckett is going nowhere.

 

Many feel that Beckett is such a smug self centered SOB that he is incapable of an apology or admitting he did anything wrong. If so, as Hawk Harrelson would say, "He gone!"

[Palodios]

In my view even if the Sox had to eat all but $5M per year' date=' getting Lackey out of here would be worth it. [/quote']

 

If they could get rid of Lackey, they would. But right now, he is the worst pitcher in baseball, and will be an absolute PR nightmare. No one will pay a dime for him.

 

And considering that he is only a divorce and the death of a child away from being a 4.40 ERA 200 inning pitcher, I'd bet he's worth more to this team than away from it.

[Palodios]

Many feel that Beckett is such a smug self centered SOB that he is incapable of an apology or admitting he did anything wrong. If so' date=' as Hawk Harrelson would say, "He gone!"[/quote']

 

I've never been a big Beckett fan, but the one thing he does do, is accept his own shortcomings.

[a700hitter]

But for the stench of the collapse, Beckett's trade value would have been very high. I definitely would have considered moving him in the off season if the Sox signed CJ Wilson to replace him. However, to much of the stench of this collapse is getting on Beckett decreasing his trade value, because attempts to trade him would be looked upon as an attempt to unload a problem. I'd keep him. He came to camp in 2011 in better condition. They need to stay on top of his conditioning during the season. Beckett is not the problem for this team.

 

With regard to the beer drinking incident, all I have to say is that I am shocked. (Sarcasm). Major league baseball players drinking beer in the clubhouse? (More sarcasm).

 

It reminds me of when I went to the parents' orientation when my son went to college. One of the mothers was very upset because she had spotted beer in the refrigerator of one of the dorm rooms on the tour. She demanded to know how the drinking laws were enforced. As this idiot prattled on about the beer violations, I leaned over to my wife and said: "should I tell her about the drugs and the sex?". LoL!

Let's impose restrictions on beer in the clubhouse!!!! LOL!

[SoxSport]

The Globe is really beginning to sound hysterical about all this.

 

It started following the press conference when Tito was let go "gracefully." After a period of "Tito and Theo should stay."

 

Then Theo is let go "gracefully", and the Globe begins a litany of clubhouse accusations and Tito personal stuff.

The infamous Hohler article.

 

The one solid contribution the Globe made all along was to suggest at times that some players were not well conditioned. Abraham, I believe suggested that in August.

 

The rest of it--beer, chicken, pills, divorce--is classical tabloid.

 

The real problem with the Red Sox is they weren't trying hard enough to win--as a team. And that points to the management.

[a700hitter]

Soxsport, you are right. The stories about the poor conditioning came out in August before the collapse. Youk and AGon were identified as guys who could benefit from losing 20-25 lbs. Our pitchers start breathing heavily after 4 innings. The team was not prepared for a full season.

[BornToRun]

Who f***ing cares if he was chilling out in the clubhouse during games? It's his job, it's what he does for most of the year and I can't blame him for getting bored with it every now and then. I think we all know that Beckett is one of the fiercest competitors on this team and I think this is more on management for letting the conditioning issues sink this team. The players aren't absolved but it's the brass' job to keep things under control. Sure Beckett is a loudmouth and kind of a prick, which I like about him in a way, but the man can pitch. Hopefully the next regime isn't going to let things fall apart like they did this year.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Who cares? You think nothing is wrong with what he did?

[jung]

I'd bet he's worth more to this team than away from it.

 

If it was just his pitching in an absolute sense, I could buy this argument regarding Lackey. However you can trace the beginnings of the clubhouse starting to unravel to his arrival here and in the last few weeks many of the cannons have been pointed at him in that regard.

 

So based on hoping he can turn his pitching around do you want him around to poison your players even further? That is sort of the straw that breaks the camel's back for me. We are all agreeing that he had a negative impact on players as well established as Beckett. Heck if he can drag Beckett down with him what chance does some young guy (not to be confused with the Korean pitcher of the same name) have from escaping that environment unscathed.

 

As for Lackey's personal problems, I have as much sympathy for him in that regard as I have for AGons relative to the schedule. These guys want to come to the big market teams, they want the money that goes with it but they don't want the pressure that goes with it as if you could separate the two. I don't see Lackey coming forward suggesting that he has not lived up to the expectations suggested by the size of his contract and is willing to renegotiate it down. He still expects the Sox to uphold their end of the bargain and as long as that is the case I expect him to uphold his end of the bargain.

 

Every problem he has had is a problem confronted by everyday people all of the time. The only difference is that they don't have $14M a year to help them through the issues. In fact that reminds me, they gave John time off right in the middle of the season in an effort to give him a chance to work through this stuff, something I have frankly never seen before beyond a single day here and there every once and awhile.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Who f***ing cares if he was chilling out in the clubhouse during games? It's his job' date=' it's what he does for most of the year and I can't blame him for getting bored with it every now and then. I think we all know that Beckett is one of the fiercest competitors on this team and [b']I think this is more on management for letting the conditioning issues sink this team.[/b] The players aren't absolved but it's the brass' job to keep things under control. Sure Beckett is a loudmouth and kind of a prick, which I like about him in a way, but the man can pitch. Hopefully the next regime isn't going to let things fall apart like they did this year.

 

Thats part of the problem with Beckett though. All that beer drinking and friend chicken f***s you up health wise. The trainers got on him about it because he was getting out of shape, and he didn't do anything about it. It's not the organizations total responsibility to baby him and make sure he is in shape, it's his own responsibility. I think this type of ******** is one of the reasons why he is a shot in the dark going into any year. He's been doing this since 2003, and look how often he is getting hurt from little stupid injuries or just imploding every so often. I could deal with him being a prick if he acted a little bit more responsibly. It isn't a coincidence that the 2 guys who are connected to this whole clubhouse thing were either ineffective or had health problems. If Beckett didn't do dumb crap like this i'm sure he'd be in the top 5 pichers in the league every year, but nope.

 

And who cares if he was chilling in the clubhouse? Francona cared, and they didn't give a damn. In Beckett's Marlins days Jack McKeon cared, and Beckett didn't listen back then to the point McKeon had to chase him out the clubhouse with a bat and lock the doors and had to issue bathroom passes like he was a f***ing elementary school teacher.

 

People need to stop excusing these dudes for the dumb s*** they do, just because they are fiercely competitive or things like that.

[BornToRun]

Who cares? You think nothing is wrong with what he did?

 

Not the point I'm trying to make. Everyone is flipping out because he was eating chicken in the clubhouse. Ultimately, in my opinion, it comes down to management being able to reign these guys in. I'm not saying there isn't anything wrong with what he did but it's understandable. I do hold the players accountable but I think management is more at fault. If a guy is doing this, tell him to stop. If he doesn't stop, fine his ass or do something else as a disciplinary action. There's enough blame to go around. I don't blame him for wanting to hang around in the clubhouse, I put blame on both him and management for the conditioning issues.