Is Theo next?

[iortiz]

Drew sucked, Renteria sucked for his lone year and they quit to quickly on, Lugo sucked, Dice-K sucked.

 

The jury is out on CC, but not Lackey.

 

He was the WORST starting pitcher in baseball. If he were average, yeah the jury is out. He was the WORST pitcher in the game.

 

Some of Theos moves not to forget:

John Lackey

Edgar Renteria

BK Kim

Jd Drew

Julio Lugo

Daisuke Matsuzaka

Jeff Suppan

Scott Sauerbeck

Rudy Seanez (twice)

Ramiro Mendoza

Bronson Arroyo

Matt Clement

Kelly Shoppach (trading away for Coco Crisp)

Coco Crisp

Craig Hansen (most overhyped Sox draft pick ever?)

Cla Merideth (rush him, maybe ruined his career, then traded him)

Alex Gonzalez (letting him go, twice)

Orlando Cabrera (letting him go)

Wily Mo Pena (aquired in Arroyo trade)

Joel Pineiro (and announcing him as the closer in spring training)

Eric Gagne

Justin Masterson (trading him away)

Victor Martinez (allowing him to leave)

Adrian Beltre (allowing him to leave)

Brad Penny

John Smoltz

Ramon Ramirez (trading him away in the middle of playoff race)

Takashi Saito (not re-signing him)

David Murphy (trading him away)

 

Like I have said. Blow the thing up. Theo did a great job developing talent a few years back....but what has that produced lately? NOTHING.

 

They arent developing, they are trading away their top draft picks, he cant build a bullpen, he cant trade and he hasnt hit on a free agent in YEARS.

 

Cya later Theo..........when I say BLOW IT UP, I mean it. This does not start and end with Tito and Theo either........Lackey, your ass is next. Players will be held accountable as well.

 

Its about f***ing time they do something to fix this damn team. 3 years of ******** will finally come to an end.

 

Fixed.

 

Cya Theo

[Gringo]

I think Theo gets a little too much of a bad rap on free agents. Some guys I don't think you can blame him too much for.

 

Renteria came in as a solid SS who could play defense. Who would've guessed he was gonna suck that hard?

 

Lugo and Dice-K, I'll give you.

 

Drew might be overpaid but we got a lot of good out of him. He stepped up in the 07 playoffs and carried the team for the whole month of June is 2008 when Papi was sucking it and sucking it hard. He also played very solid defense and put up a high OBP with some pop.

 

The juries are still out on CC and Lackey. Lackey got paid to be a number 3 and he was exactly that in 2010, his numbers weren't as pretty as they were in Anaheim but that was to be expected. You can't anticipate how bad he was for the majority of this season and he still has 3 years left to right the ship.

 

Crawford is an amazing talent and I don't think one bad season is enough to say that the whole career of .300 hitting is going to end. He had a rough first season in Boston, there's 6 more left.

 

I think the verdict is IN on Lackey, and it ain't good.....He had a good year and a great postseason performance against us with the Angels, and that was good enough for Theo to shatter the piggy bank, when what he should've done was waited a year and made a run at Cliff Lee.

 

Now we're saddled with a massive contract on a crap pitcher who is a cantankerous prick to boot.

 

Epstein is also responsible for Drew, Lugo, Renteria, and DiceK. A 5 year contract to an injury-prone Drew who was most famous for under performing? Paying 50m just for first dibs at Gyro Ball Mystery Man from Japan? Terrible decision.

 

Epstein is not without considerable flaws, and if he goes too, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

[jung]

There are a few things about the situation with JD Drew that are worth mentioning I think. In part i think they are why Remy thinks that of the FA signings that are still here, Drew has been the best of them:

In the first place, Drew has not been one iota different than what should have been expected of him.

Everything we have seen of JD is exactly what people in baseball said to expect of him long before he got here. Theo fell in love with him anyway because Theo's glorious player evaluation matrix said he would be wonderful. Hence Theo decided to unlock the bank vault for him.

 

As has been pointed out he has actually had his moments...damn few of them but he has had a few.

 

He has not lashed out, nor spoken out, nor been accused of being a part of the sandbox that the Sox clubhouse became.

 

He has been as solid a defensive right fielder as we have had here for a long time.

 

I am not defending JD as much as I am saying he does not deserve to be lumped in with the worst of the worst. We should blame Theo for ignoring what should have been staring him right in the face. However blaming Drew for being Drew does not make much sense.

 

It is also worth mentioning that as much as Crawford's first year has been a disappointment he has not stooped to becoming part of the Sox playpen/sandbox either.

[Gringo]

I wasn't blaming Drew for being Drew. I was blaming Theo for SIGNING Drew for FIVE years....it was too much money for too many years for a player that wasn't worth it, bottom line.

[jung]

Agreed Gringo.

 

In fact that is another hole in Theo's FA process. He falls so hard for these guys and is so convinced that he is headed in the right direction that he seems to constantly commit the Sox to big money X long terms....just the worst possible combinations. It has gotten to the point now that when I see him grinning ear to ear about having "locked somebody up" for X years I am just shaking in my boots.

[Cairns_Sox]

yup, I was making my post as you replied.

 

Spring cleaning, everyone is a target....feeling comfortable? Dont....make sure your bags are packed just in case.

 

I'm seriously hoping ownership are as unforgiving with the playing group, especially the problem ones as they were with Tito. That remains to be seen.

[iortiz]

I'm seriously hoping ownership are as unforgiving with the playing group' date=' especially the problem ones as they were with Tito. That remains to be seen.[/quote']

 

Agree.

 

Theo and Tito are the main responsible of this mess but not the only. Several players have to take accountability as well and have to go.

[3rdManOut]

The Globe anounced today that the Cubs asked the Red Sox permission to talk to Theo. If he does go, what about Ben Cherington, Theo's assistant GM? Anyone know anything about him?

[SoxSport]

The Cubs can have him on one condition: they take Lackey's contract. It's only fitting that Theo continue to be stuck with Lackey. No way he leaves the Red Sox without him. That's the deal. Take it or leave it.

[jacksonianmarch]

If you have a GM who wants to leave, do you really have a ton of leverage to ask for compensation? It's either keep the guy against his will or accept minimal comp.

[VA Sox Fan]

I think Theo gets a little too much of a bad rap on free agents. Some guys I don't think you can blame him too much for.

 

Renteria came in as a solid SS who could play defense. Who would've guessed he was gonna suck that hard?

 

Lugo and Dice-K, I'll give you.

 

Drew might be overpaid but we got a lot of good out of him. He stepped up in the 07 playoffs and carried the team for the whole month of June is 2008 when Papi was sucking it and sucking it hard. He also played very solid defense and put up a high OBP with some pop.

 

The juries are still out on CC and Lackey. Lackey got paid to be a number 3 and he was exactly that in 2010, his numbers weren't as pretty as they were in Anaheim but that was to be expected. You can't anticipate how bad he was for the majority of this season and he still has 3 years left to right the ship.

 

Crawford is an amazing talent and I don't think one bad season is enough to say that the whole career of .300 hitting is going to end. He had a rough first season in Boston, there's 6 more left.

 

There is NO WAY you are not old enough to drink....just sayin'

[SoxSport]

QUOTE]

 

Meredith was not one of Tito's best moments as a manager: Remember when he christened the kid's first ML appearance by bringing him out of the bullpen with the base loaded--and somebody hit a salami? Another pitching misjudgement.

[jung]

Well Theo is still under contract here so I guess you could make the point that if Theo is "forced" to honor his contract (frankly how stupid does that sound...forced to honor his contract) and he dogs it for a year that would not work out too well for him. Ya' can't make a mockery of the whole system and have owners still covet you. Although the whole system is so fouled up. For example, even if Theo is a lame duck, how much do you let him do? Do you let him pick your next manager....do you let him make multimillion dollar commitments to players. It seems to me that much like the mess the Sox got into with their manager if they really intend keeping a GM they have to do something before the beginning of the last contract year.

 

Now as it is Theo is already into his last contract year. I am really beginning to wonder what the hell upper management is thinking allowing both of those contract to run out. Did they not want either guy?

[SoxSport]

The Globe anounced today that the Cubs asked the Red Sox permission to talk to Theo. If he does go' date=' what about Ben Cherington, Theo's assistant GM? Anyone know anything about him?[/quote']

 

Risky business. this is a rich ballclub. They can afford to make Billy Beane an offer he can't refuse. The As can always get Brad Pitt to replace him.

[SoxSport]

Agree.

 

Theo and Tito are the main responsible of this mess but not the only. Several players have to take accountability as well and have to go.

 

The coaches, too. you can't fire Tito while retaining the coaches--not in this situation.

 

The guys who have to go are Lackey, Wakefield, Drew and Varitek. Possibly Papi, if he gets too greedy. Maybe also Pap. Ellsbury they keep at all costs. Crawford will be the no.1 rehab project for the new manager.

[MDF3530]

Drew sucked, Renteria sucked for his lone year and they quit to quickly on, Lugo sucked, Dice-K sucked.

 

The jury is out on CC, but not Lackey.

 

He was the WORST starting pitcher in baseball. If he were average, yeah the jury is out. He was the WORST pitcher in the game.

 

Some of Theos moves not to forget:

John Lackey

Edgar Renteria

BK Kim

Jd Drew

Julio Lugo

Daisuke Matsuzaka

Jeff Suppan

Scott Sauerbeck

Rudy Seanez (twice)

Ramiro Mendoza

Bronson Arroyo

Matt Clement

Kelly Shoppach (trading away for Coco Crisp)

Coco Crisp

Craig Hansen (most overhyped Sox draft pick ever?)

Cla Merideth (rush him, maybe ruined his career, then traded him)

Alex Gonzalez (letting him go, twice)

Orlando Cabrera (letting him go)

Wily Mo Pena (aquired in Arroyo trade)

Joel Pineiro (and announcing him as the closer in spring training)

Eric Gagne

Justin Masterson (trading him away)

Victor Martinez (allowing him to leave)

Adrian Beltre (allowing him to leave)

Brad Penny

John Smoltz

Ramon Ramirez (trading him away in the middle of playoff race)

Takashi Saito (not re-signing him)

David Murphy (trading him away)

 

Like I have said. Blow the thing up. Theo did a great job developing talent a few years back....but what has that produced lately? NOTHING.

 

They arent developing, they are trading away their top draft picks, he cant build a bullpen, he cant trade and he hasnt hit on a free agent in YEARS.

 

Cya later Theo..........when I say BLOW IT UP, I mean it. This does not start and end with Tito and Theo either........Lackey, your ass is next. Players will be held accountable as well.

 

Its about f***ing time they do something to fix this damn team. 2 years of ******** will finally come to an end.

Never thought I'd see someone pining for O-Cab. There's a reason why teams can't wait to get him out of their locker room. That reason is he's a raging asshat.

[DwightFright]

The Cubs are likely to make a strong run at Theo. I won't be shocked if he is open to that as an opportunity, but I think it would be a set-back for the Sox. Others may disagree. This thread was prompted by this tween from Sherman:

 

Joel Sherman:

 

"I am shocked, but in last 36 hrs every exec talk to says believe #Redsox will give permssion and Theo will go to #Cubs to be GM"

 

Maybe part of the deal with the Cubs should be that Theo takes Crawford's and Lackey's contracts with him. A clean start for the Sox should rid problem contracts for a new GM/manager.

[a700hitter]

Never thought I'd see someone pining for O-Cab. There's a reason why teams can't wait to get him out of their locker room. That reason is he's a raging asshat.

He stuck with rthe Angels for a good number of years, and there is a reason why he keeps showing up on the rosters of contenders. He's a solid SS.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I think we're really grasping at straws here, and have become incredibly selfish.

 

What does Theo do? He puts out a team, year after year, that is good enough to win a world series. Year after year. Despite the FA signings, he still manages to put a team out there via draft and trades that overcome the shortcomings of his FA signings.

 

Yet people what to get rid of him? Tell me something. Would we have won in 2007 without Pedroia, or JD Drew?

 

I will never understand the desire to get rid of him. As bad as his FA signings are (and they are bad), his drafts and trades are much, much better and completely overcome that. Should they change their outlook and process for signing free agents? Absolutely. But do not, by any means, throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[a700hitter]

I think we're really grasping at straws here, and have become incredibly selfish.

 

What does Theo do? He puts out a team, year after year, that is good enough to win a world series. Year after year. Despite the FA signings, he still manages to put a team out there via draft and trades that overcome the shortcomings of his FA signings.

 

Yet people what to get rid of him? Tell me something. Would we have won in 2007 without Pedroia, or JD Drew?

 

I will never understand the desire to get rid of him. As bad as his FA signings are (and they are bad), his drafts and trades are much, much better and completely overcome that. Should they change their outlook and process for signing free agents? Absolutely. But do not, by any means, throw the baby out with the bathwater.

In return for the second highest payroll in baseball, we have gotten a competitive team that has not been good enough to win the World Series since 2007. They have not been good enough to win a playoff game since 2008 nor make the playoffs since 2009. We also have very little premium talent at the upper levels of the minor leagues. He has had a terrible run for the last 3 or 4 seasons in light of his resources. All will not be lost if he is replaces. Despite what u may think, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to be a good GM.

[Palodios]

Tell that to 1919-2003. You know what, you don't give Theo credit for winning the World Series in 2004... even if the Red Sox win one in 2012 or 2013 without him, wouldn't you need to give Theo credit for building most of the team that did it?

[a700hitter]

Tell that to 1919-2003. You know what' date=' you don't give Theo credit for winning the World Series in 2004... even if the Red Sox win one in 2012 or 2013 without him, wouldn't you need to give Theo credit for building most of the team that did it?[/quote']Yes, I give him credit for 2004-- partial credit, and almost full credit for 2007. I also give him credit for the home grown players on the roster who have become stars. That doesn't entitle you to a job for life. His last 3-4 years have not been good.

 

If you want to talk about 1919-2003, I have been rooting for them for 45 years and I have never seen something so bad and so painful for the fans as 2011. That also goes on Theo's resume. I think some new blood is needed. This ownership doesn't seem to like people staying in the same jobs for extended periods. Theo's been there for 9 years. That a long time. Ownership may be ready to move on. Red Sox Nation will survive without him.

[redsoxrules]

Orlando Cabrara ? LOL

 

he's been pretty brutal since he left boston

[a700hitter]

Orlando Cabrara ? LOL

 

he's been pretty brutal since he left boston

He had a few good years for the Angels and one for the White Sox. He hasn't done much since, because he's almost as old as Wakefield.

[example1]

Just listened to Lucchino and John Henry on WEEI. I'm convinced that Theo's tenure in Boston is meaning an end.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I agree it was very, very telling. Here are the actual quotes:

 

"Every year we get requests from people. We’ve never discussed them publicly," said Lucchino. "We don’t comment on requests."

 

Speaking generally, Henry did note that permission is typically granted by teams to organizations that want to discuss a promotion.

 

"There is a certain protocol in this game," said Henry. "If someone asks permission for a job that’s not lateral, you give them permission. That’s just the way it works."

 

That said, Henry also said that it was fair to assume that Epstein would at some point move on from being the Red Sox GM, just as former Sox manager Terry Francona reached a point at which it was time to move on.

 

"Everyone has to understand a couple of things, and I think Tito alluded to this," Henry said. "I think there's a certain shelf life in these jobs. You can only be the general manager, if you're sane, you can only be the manager for a certain amount of time. It's a tremendous pressure-cooker here, 162 games. It's a long season, and the pressure here is 365 days.

 

"So, Theo is not going to be the general manager forever. Just as, if Tito had some back for the last two years, would he have gone past 10 years? I can't imagine that he would have. I think that Theo will. He's the guy now, he's been the guy, we've had tremendous success. We fell apart at the end of the season. As Larry expressed, we're upset about it. No fan could be more upset than I am about the result this year. But he's done a tremendous job for us over the last [nine] years."

 

Couple of conflicting ideas, somewhat at least. At first, he almost insinuates that Theo's "shelf life" is coming to an end. But then, he says that he thinks Theo will be "the guy".

 

Should be very interesting.

[a700hitter]

Just listened to Lucchino and John Henry on WEEI. I'm convinced that Theo's tenure in Boston is meaning an end.

Do you need a tissue?

[Palodios]

I agree it was very, very telling. Here are the actual quotes:

 

 

 

Couple of conflicting ideas, somewhat at least. At first, he almost insinuates that Theo's "shelf life" is coming to an end. But then, he says that he thinks Theo will be "the guy".

 

Should be very interesting.

 

This article sounds more likely they want to promote him than get rid of him.

[example1]

Do you need a tissue?

 

Nope. If Ben Charrington is his replacement we will basically get the same approach to baseball and team management. That's what I care about most. I'm a pretty solid convert to the advanced metrics and use of data in baseball. I hope they will stick with a guy like Charrington.

 

From what I heard from Henry and Lucchino, they are either going to find a way to promote Theo, or he will be in Chicago as the President. We will get to see if he's capable of turning that organization around. In the meantime, the same computer programs and people (LL, JH, TW) will be participating in discussions to balance the teams need for competitive players with their need to put fans in the seats, and there will still be bad FA signings. Your scapegoat will be gone, and you'll have to find someone new to rail against with your all-powerful hindsight.

 

BTW, do you have a morning show on WEEI by any chance? That Callahan guy pretty much reminds me of who I imagine you are in the "real world".

[iortiz]

As I said, I'd be surprise if he continues. Back to back to back years of failures was too much. GMs heads usually rolls in these situations.

 

Some players should go as well in order to complete the clean up. We'll see.