2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[iortiz]

Now that Oswalt is completely discarded and Jackson as a complete mystery and unlikely to land, I'm starting to believe that Scu's money will be used to sign Ortiz (which would piss me off), otherwise I wouldn't understand this "strategic-move" (Scu).

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Dick move by Ben .

If I was Oswalt , I wouldn't be interested either for a 5 MIL offer.

 

Exactly.

[iortiz]

Dick move by Ben .

If I was Oswalt , I wouldn't be interested either for a 5 MIL offer.

 

Yup, Oswalt can listen every offer. On the other hand and as I said I'm not sure what was Ben expecting from this joke offer, if true of course.

[Spudboy]

This. Some of those same people who viewed Francona as a reason why the Sox lost 10+ games per year are now unwilling to acknowledge Valentine being a positive impact on the W/L column. Makes no sense.

 

 

 

This. A thousand times this. But don't be so "authoritative" when saying things like this.

 

Please use the word please when making a request of another poster. Thank you.

[jacksonianmarch]

What I find interesting is that they are projected to be over the lux tax already, they already dealt off their "SS of the future" in Lowrie, have another SS of the future who is at least a year away and are currently left with a misfit in Aviles and a no-hit in Punto, yet they deal Scutaro? With Marco, you knew what you were getting. A guy who will get on base 35% of the time, be an absolute pest in the batters box, field the routine balls and avoid big mistakes. And the one bonus was, he destroyed Rivera. Always did. So you deal him away and your biggest replacement is Nick Punto? Punto hasnt proven he can play SS on a regular basis ever. The most SS he played was in 2008 when he started 60 games there. Granted, his D has always been great, but how can you rely on effectively a utility guy to be your starting SS after not being a starter for 3 seasons and after turning 34 yrs old?

[jung]

Well, for a time, there were reports that a few teams were right around the same $5M offer. I do think it unlikely that with several offers of $5M in front of him there was ever any real shot at luring him to the AL East but I think I see why BC would have offered $5M.

 

That reminds me, didn't I say weeks and weeks ago that the Sox were going to try to get somebody not for $10M, not for $8M but for $5M. That is not an I told you so. I simply mention it because I think we can now use $5M to Oswalt as a benchmark for other offers they might make to a SP. I also really question the Detroit offer at $10M. That would have been way over what anybody else had offered at the time. Oswalt is going to end up pitching somewhere for way less than $10M it would appear to me. If so that sort of says something about how much he wants to avoid either the AL or anywhere north of Ft. Worth unless it is an NL team. I think Detroit offered him something. Boy I find it hard to believe he would turn down $10M to pitch for Detroit. Why...well lets say he does get his multiyear deal next year. What is that going to be? 3/15? A bird in the hand etc. Why turn down 1/10 for a shot at 3/15 even in a tougher pitching environment? and then with everything else swirling around Oswalt what would make Detroit stupid enough to give him $10M to pitch in that tougher environment. I can believe an offer that was part salary and stuffed with incentives.

[Muggah]

Yup' date=' Oswalt can listen every offer. On the other hand and as I said I'm not sure what was Ben expecting from this joke offer, if true of course.[/quote']

 

Ben made the offer public simply because there's a certain number of nitwit pollyannas who will believe the Sox made a legitimate run at Oswalt. That's all that was.

 

In all honesty, though, don't you really think Ben knew there was zero chance of Oswalt choosing to pitch in the AL East, and the 'offer' was simply obligatory?

[Palodios]

I don't know how dick it was. Weren't most of us predicting like 3 weeks ago that he wasn't that interested in Boston' date=' based on pretty well-publicized reports? I think Ben probably knew Oswalt wasn't that interested when he offered 5m dollars.[/quote']

 

It was probably 5 million with another 5-10 million of incentives. That's something that the Boston brass would do, make him earn it, but if he could earn it, he'd make the most here.

[Spudboy]

The Yankees knew three things about their rotation going into 2011. They had an ace and a #2 that ate innings. And they knew they had a lights out pen. They didnt so much as get lucky with Colon as doing their due diligence. Pena had him on his winter league team' date=' and when they saw he could still run it up there in the mid 90s, they took a shot. Fredy was less of an unknown having provided quality innings in Chicago. The biggest surprise was Nova, obviously.[/quote']

 

WTF? Wrong thread Doc.

 

Edit: Unless you were responding to Jung's novel (which I did not read).

[iortiz]

Ben made the offer public simply because there's a certain number of nitwit pollyannas who will believe the Sox made a legitimate run at Oswalt. That's all that was.

 

In all honesty, though, don't you really think Ben knew there was zero chance of Oswalt choosing to pitch in the AL East, and the 'offer' was simply obligatory?

 

Trying to use my common sense... I wouldn't waste my time with this diligence if I already knew that this offer wasn't going anywhere. I mean, did he really want to probe something to fans/FO with this joke? Sorry but we are not that stupid.

[jacksonianmarch]

WTF? Wrong thread Doc.

 

Edit: Unless you were responding to Jung's novel (which I did not read).

 

I was responding to jung and his CC, bubble gum and tape rotation comment

[Spudboy]

I was responding to jung and his CC' date=' bubble gum and tape rotation comment[/quote']

 

Oh. Hence my edit.

 

Carry on!

[SoxSport]

I don't know how dick it was. Weren't most of us predicting like 3 weeks ago that he wasn't that interested in Boston' date=' based on pretty well-publicized reports? I think Ben probably knew Oswalt wasn't that interested when he offered 5m dollars.[/quote']

 

I don't know what to believe about Oswalt and the Red Sox. Now Traderumors is saying Gammons never tweeted Oswalt didn't want to go to Boston. I wish Gammons and the rest of those punditheads would leave us alone.

[Spitball]

It was probably 5 million with another 5-10 million of incentives. That's something that the Boston brass would do' date=' make him earn it, but if he could earn it, he'd make the most here.[/quote']

 

I think you are probably right, but I say screw Oswalt. He wants to go someplace where he can put up strong numbers and the AL East is not that place. He wants to go to Texas or St. Louis where they have set rotations. Welcome Mr. Team Unity.

 

There is a reason he is still unsign. He has a recent history of injury and is looking out for himself. He is not the guy who had nearly 8 k/9 but a guy who has dropped to 6 k/9. I have been in favor of signing the guy, but recent news releases tell me he is a guy to stay away from. If Cherington lowballed him with with his offer, good for him.

[jung]

I was referring to the question marks in the Yankee rotation at the start of the season. AJ has been question mark for his entire career it seems, although he must be your aforementioned innings eater. Hughes had not pitched more than 86 innings in any season other than 2010 and had actually averaged something like 55 innings per year until then. He went 76 innings in 2011. Nova as you mentioned Jackson, was a big plus. I think the big question for Colon was the fact that he had not pitched in the majors since 2009 and his chronic weight problem and knee surgery. Could he keep the weight off and if not would his knee cave? The issue was not weather or not he could still run it up there. By the way now that he has put most of the weight back on or had by the end of last year, the question for his career is likely still the same. Will his knee cave under all that weight.

 

So my point was that CC was a great 1, and while AJ eats innings you expect more from a guy in that spot than eating innings. Everybody has always expected more from AJ and it has not happened. Colon had his surgery and weight to contend with. Hughes had to be a question mark but I think Garcia looked like a good 5 from day 1 but you like to have fewer question marks ahead of your 5. So the Yanks got 76 out of Hughes and bout 150 innings each out of Colon and Garcia. Without the Yanks pen do you really think they would have done as well as they did?

 

That is probably the biggest fly in the ointment for the Sox if they are going to try this. Can the pen make up for the potential injury and/or performance question marks in the rotation? Not many sure things in the pen so far with the exception of Bailey and maybe Melancon and Miller I guess. While the pen is not really full of question marks with the exception of some young guys it is not really full of guys that have excelled in their careers. Some of them have been solid however. Don't see this Sox pen so far as able to do for the Sox what the Yanks pen did for the Yanks in 2011.

[jung]

If Cherington lowballed him with with his offer, good for him.

 

I agree Spitball. There is a reason for all of those offers around $5M and I don't think Detroit at $10M was credible or I think Oswalt would have taken it.

[mvp 78]

If Cherington lowballed him with with his offer' date=' good for him.[/quote']

I'm ok with it. It's not like he was a sure bet. NL only pitcher with injury issues and decreased velocity is not where I'd spend my money.

[User Name]

The Yankees knew three things about their rotation going into 2011. They had an ace and a #2 that ate innings. And they knew they had a lights out pen. They didnt so much as get lucky with Colon as doing their due diligence. Pena had him on his winter league team' date=' and when they saw he could still run it up there in the mid 90s, they took a shot. Fredy was less of an unknown having provided quality innings in Chicago. The biggest surprise was Nova, obviously.[/quote']

 

Both Colon and Freddy's seasons were surprises and lucky strikes by the Yankees. Face the truth, and don't sugarcoat it.

[User Name]

It was probably 5 million with another 5-10 million of incentives. That's something that the Boston brass would do' date=' make him earn it, but if he could earn it, he'd make the most here.[/quote']

 

This. But hey, apparently people here who don't know the specifics of the contract offer because they weren't made public somehow do know the specific of the contracts. I call it TalkSox logic.

[User Name]

Please use the word please when making a request of another poster. Thank you.

 

Noted and will do.

[iortiz]

Hopefully one of those depth arms of us, turn into a Colon/Garcia sweet surprise. Padilla/Doubront could give us a surprise, but I just do not see arguments in the others.

[User Name]

Padilla has always had good stuff and Doubront has a good arm but missed a full year of development.

 

Out of the others, Silva is the most likely (and i use the term loosely) to become something decent if he stops being a lazy fat-ass, due to his prior run of success in the AL. All that being said, it's unlikely at best.

[Spudboy]

Padilla has always had good stuff and Doubront has a good arm but missed a full year of development.

 

Out of the others, Silva is the most likely (and i use the term loosely) to become something decent if he stops being a lazy fat-ass, due to his prior run of success in the AL. All that being said, it's unlikely at best.

 

As you are probably aware, I did not spend much time paying attention to baseball last year. What happened to Doubront? He showed very good potential. I would like to think that potential is still there but I have no knowledge of his health. Can someone clue the old man in?

[User Name]

As you are probably aware' date=' I did not spend much time paying attention to baseball last year. What happened to Doubront? He showed very good potential. I would like to think that potential is still there but I have no knowledge of his health. Can someone clue the old man in?[/quote']

 

He reportedly showed up to camp out of shape and had a myriad injuries last year, from left forearm inflammation to a groin injury etc etc etc. This is a kid just a year removed from being Red Sox MiLB pitcher of the year in 2010. He's likely to provide valuable innings to the Red Sox this season.

[redsoxfan3]

Can somone give me an update on the Oswalt and Jackson situation? I read not too long ago that Cherington and Valentine are both content with the roster that we have now. Are Oswalt and Jackson still possible candidates for us at this point? I know I haven't heard much about them the last couple of days, other than Oswalt was meeting with Texas, but might not be a fit with the Rangers or Cards. Also, is Floyd still an option? I don't know what to expect after reading those comments by BC. Were those comments said just in case we don't get another pitcher or are we still actually pursuing one of the three pitchers listed above?

[User Name]

Oswalt was negotiating with Texas yesterday, but no news on that front.

 

The Jackson side is extremely quiet, which means Boras has something up his sleeve. Several news outlets have made a point of mentioning how he "would take a one-year deal to pitch in Boston" which could be a Boras sell piece.

 

Time will tell.

[redsoxfan3]

Oswalt was negotiating with Texas yesterday, but no news on that front.

 

The Jackson side is extremely quiet, which means Boras has something up his sleeve. Several news outlets have made a point of mentioning how he "would take a one-year deal to pitch in Boston" which could be a Boras sell piece.

 

Time will tell.

 

Thank you for the information. I know that Oswalt wants to start, so the Cards and Rangers need to make room for him. That is the positive. I hope he can't join either team and that means that the Sox could then move into a position where we are the favorite.

 

I also hope that we are a favorite for Jackson. A one year contract would be good. I remember reading that and you make a good point about Boras. I just hope that we can land one of the two.

 

I guess I just have to be patient. Hopefully something will happen. Spring Training is only three weeks away.

[a700hitter]

Maine signed with the Rockies last season but never made it out of Triple A, going 1-3 with a 7.43 ERA in 11 starts for Colorado Springs.

[BSN07]

 

All he is going to be is ST fodder or AAA depth. He will have to show a lot to even pitch for Boston this season. SO I don't think we need to worry about him.

[a700hitter]

All he is going to be is ST fodder or AAA depth. He will have to show a lot to even pitch for Boston this season. SO I don't think we need to worry about him.

He's not even invited to Spring Training and I doubt that he can hold down a spot on AAA Pawtucket. They shouldn't even waste their time with guys like this. In the time they spend paying attention to wastes like this maybe they are diverting their attention away from more important matters like the fact that Wheeler would sign for $900 k or that Sergio Santos was available.