2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[User Name]

This is all assuming the team stays healthy all year. Buchholz/Bard won't break 160 innings. Bailey will be around 40-50. There will be openings in this roster' date=' and at 2 million, I wish they would have given him a shot.[/quote']

 

With the way this team is conducting business in regards to money, i'm glad they didn't.

[jung]

Wheeler is a match up reliever. In truth I think the Sox gave up on him before they even starting on their BP "depth" campaign.

 

I do understand folks looking at his numbers and believing he is worth a shot but I actually think the Sox are generally headed toward leaving some room to try to develop some of the younger guys that will start 2012 in the minors.

 

Pure numbers alone might have suggested that they keep him but I just don't think he fit the Sox plans. If he had a better reputation with regard to his ability get lefties out, it might be easier to make the case for him. I think the Sox might be looking at the value they would attach to a guy that can come into the 5th, 6th or 7th inning and get a couple righties out against being able to develop some better long term solutions. I could be wrong but I think that is why Wheeler is an Indian today and not a Red Sox.

[a700hitter]

Losing Wheeler like that was a"rookie" mistake by Ben without a doubt. Wasn't his first and won't be his last. That being said ' date='if he doesn't get a starter after trading Scuturo, losing Wheeler will be small patatoes in the grief falling on Ben's head.[/quote']So was the Santos slip up. Whether Santos is good or bad is up for debate, and I am not debating that issue. Benny Boy admitted that he didn't know that the White Sox were shopping him. At the time of that acquisition by Toronto, we had no bullpen with Papelbon gone, and Bard and Aceves headed to the rotation. It was astounding to me that a pitcher like Santos was available when we had no bullpen and Benny wasn't aware of that. Another rookie mistake as you said. It doesn't seem that he is mastering the finer details.

[jung]

I do get the Santos thing. Whether BC was interested in him or not, he should have known he was available.

[Elktonnick]

So was the Santos slip up. Whether Santos is good or bad is up for debate' date=' and I am not debating that issue. Benny Boy admitted that he didn't know that the White Sox were shopping him. At the time of that acquisition by Toronto, we had no bullpen with Papelbon gone, and Bard and Aceves headed to the rotation. It was astounding to me that a pitcher like Santos was available when we had no bullpen and Benny wasn't aware of that. Another rookie mistake as you said. It doesn't seem that he is mastering the finer details.[/quote']

 

Agreed but all of these will pale by comparison if he doesn't get a pitcher after trading Scuturo supposedly to free up payroll to land a pitcher.

[seabeachfred]

Let's recap some of Ben's gaffes or missteps. We'll start this one.

 

1. Losing Wheeler to the Guardians on a minor league deal and getting no compensation pick

2. Admitting that he didn't know that the White Sox were making Sergio Santos available. He ends up on Toronto.

3. Offering Ortiz arbitration hamstringing the team's finances

 

I still think #3 is the worst mistake.

 

Don't forget that invitation to Varitek to come to ST--which some people here still deny he said but which he most certainly did since Jason was quoted two days ago about being uncertain whether he would take Cherington up on that or not. That certainly has the potential of being a big distraction especially if he does show up and starts lobbying the pitchers. Anybody heard of Beckett??????

 

On what was said by 700, let me throw in Palodios into this conversation. I have been back on this board since early October and today was the first time in memory that I saw him go off the cliff and showing himself to be one pissed off fan. It is one thing for 700, Pumpsie or me to go off but when one of the most logical of posters hits the roof it means the patience of Red Sox fandom is running pretty low.

 

The three that 700 mentioned only turns the misdemeanor of the Varitek possibility into a first class GM felony. In the meantime we don't have that pitcher because of the criminally ignorant mistake of risking arbitration, and we lose a reliever we could have used and get nothing in exchange for that mistake. The fact is Ben Cherington has firmly put on the dunce cap of Benny the Boob.

[jung]

If I were BC I might be makin' Floyd my new best friend.

[a700hitter]

Don't forget that invitation to Varitek to come to ST--which some people here still deny he said but which he most certainly did since Jason was quoted two days ago about being uncertain whether he would take Cherington up on that or not. That certainly has the potential of being a big distraction especially if he does show up and starts lobbying the pitchers. Anybody heard of Beckett??????

 

On what was said by 700, let me throw in Palodios into this conversation. I have been back on this board since early October and today was the first time in memory that I saw him go off the cliff and showing himself to be one pissed off fan. It is one thing for 700, Pumpsie or me to go off but when one of the most logical of posters hits the roof it means the patience of Red Sox fandom is running pretty low.

 

The three that 700 mentioned only turns the misdemeanor of the Varitek possibility into a first class GM felony. In the meantime we don't have that pitcher because of the criminally ignorant mistake of risking arbitration, and we lose a reliever we could have used and get nothing in exchange for that mistake. The fact is Ben Cherington has firmly put on the dunce cap of Benny the Boob.

Pal is certainly one of the most tolerant posters with regard to the FO. He almost always errs on the side of giving them the benefit of the doubt. When he starts questioning what is going on, you have to believe that the FO has made some boo boos. Thank goodness this team has a bunch of talent and that it really just needs one good starting pitcher. If he gets one, everyone should be optimistic about 2012. If he can't manage to land a starting pitcher, lots of people will be displeased with Benny.

[iortiz]

If I were BC I might be makin' Floyd my new best friend.

 

The thing with Floyd is that he is going to cost you 7.5 and prospects, isn't he?

 

Yes, IMO he is the guy that is going to land at this point.

[seabeachfred]

Still a garbage-innings pitcher. He signed a minor league deal for a reason. If he's so good' date=' why didn't he get major league contract?[/quote']

 

Right, he didn't get a sniff from us because we had such wonders as Carlos Hi Ho Silva, Charlie Haeger Slacks, Aaron Short Order Cook, Deutschland Justin Germano, and Andrew Millstone Miller. How could be even consider resigning Wheeler when we had such outstanding hurlers already signed sealed and delivered? After all, Wheeler couldn't touch these drumfire fligers. Talk about garbage-innings pitchers, why not take a close look at those I just mentioned. That is garbage personified and the reason why he didn't a contract from us is because your pal Cherington is in over his head and doesn't seem to know his ass from a hole in the ground.

 

:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown

[Palodios]

On what was said by 700' date=' let me throw in Palodios into this conversation. I have been back on this board since early October and today was the first time in memory that I saw him go off the cliff and showing himself to be one pissed off fan. It is one thing for 700, Pumpsie or me to go off but when one of the most logical of posters hits the roof it means the patience of Red Sox fandom is running pretty low. [/quote']

 

I'm not really upset. But to let Wheeler go for a minor league contract is just a terrible, terrible move. Maybe he didn't want to come back? Or maybe the Red Sox assumed he'd be more expensive.

[jung]

Floyd is cheap against the cap cause of his AAV and I have a suspicion that the Sox will be down to Floyd before long.

[a700hitter]

Right, he didn't get a sniff from us because we had such wonders as Carlos Hi Ho Silva, Charlie Haeger Slacks, Aaron Short Order Cook, Deutschland Justin Germano, and Andrew Millstone Miller. How could be even consider resigning Wheeler when we had such outstanding hurlers already signed sealed and delivered? After all, Wheeler couldn't touch these drumfire fligers. Talk about garbage-innings pitchers, why not take a close look at those I just mentioned. That is garbage personified and the reason why he didn't a contract from us is because your pal Cherington is in over his head and doesn't seem to know his ass from a hole in the ground.

 

:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown

That's a steaming hot pile of you know what. It ain't depth.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Cody Ross took #7 for the Sox.

 

I gotta say, I love how enthusiastic and pumped this guy is to be playing for the Sox. You can be damn sure that if Ellsbury stole home while he was hitting, he would go ballistic.

[a700hitter]

Cody Ross took #7 for the Sox.

 

I gotta say, I love how enthusiastic and pumped this guy is to be playing for the Sox. You can be damn sure that if Ellsbury stole home while he was hitting, he would go ballistic.

Ow come on SFF! JD was jumping up and down so much on the inside when Ells stole home that he almost had to go on the DL.

[User Name]

Right, he didn't get a sniff from us because we had such wonders as Carlos Hi Ho Silva, Charlie Haeger Slacks, Aaron Short Order Cook, Deutschland Justin Germano, and Andrew Millstone Miller. How could be even consider resigning Wheeler when we had such outstanding hurlers already signed sealed and delivered? After all, Wheeler couldn't touch these drumfire fligers. Talk about garbage-innings pitchers, why not take a close look at those I just mentioned. That is garbage personified and the reason why he didn't a contract from us is because your pal Cherington is in over his head and doesn't seem to know his ass from a hole in the ground.

 

:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown

 

Ben Cherington: General Manager of the Boston Red Sox.

 

seabeachfred: Reactionary poster at Talksox.

 

When it comes to baseball acumen, i would wager my house on option number one.

 

I'm not really upset. But to let Wheeler go for a minor league contract is just a terrible' date=' terrible move. Maybe he didn't want to come back? Or maybe the Red Sox assumed he'd be more expensive.[/quote']

 

He probably ended up getting a minor league deal because of a lack of interest. That should tell you something.

[SoxFanForsyth]

This has been a polar opposite offseason compared to last year.

 

Brutal. Boring. This is typically an extremely exciting time. This year, it's just bleh.

[User Name]

I can't wait for the games to start.

 

Gods, gimme baseball PLEASE.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I can't wait for the games to start.

 

Gods, gimme baseball PLEASE.

 

Seriously. I can only update MLB The Show's rosters so many times before I get tired of that.

[Elktonnick]

Pal is certainly one of the most tolerant posters with regard to the FO. He almost always errs on the side of giving them the benefit of the doubt. When he starts questioning what is going on' date=' you have to believe that the FO has made some boo boos. Thank goodness this team has a bunch of talent and that it really just needs one good starting pitcher. If he gets one, everyone should be optimistic about 2012. If he can't manage to land a starting pitcher, lots of people will be displeased with Benny.[/quote']

 

Especially if we have neither a starter nor an everyday Shortstop who can hit above 250.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Joe McDonald @ESPNJoeyMac

Valentine: “Another pitcher would be, I guess OK. It’s not at the top of my wish list.

 

Hey Kermit. Why don't you forget about Miss Piggy for a few minutes and take your blinders off. This team needs another SP worse than you can imagine! And if you can't see that, how the hell do you plan on using the bullpen??

[User Name]

Seriously. I can only update MLB The Show's rosters so many times before I get tired of that.

 

 

I'll be a happy camper if the Red Sox get an SP.

 

Also, interesting note: Mike Aviles has a lifetime .288 BA, so how come we don't have a SS who can hit above .250?

[a700hitter]

Hey Kermit. Why don't you forget about Miss Piggy for a few minutes and take your blinders off. This team needs another SP worse than you can imagine! And if you can't see that' date=' how the hell do you plan on using the bullpen??[/quote']He's being the good soldier. He is covering Cherries back. Of course he would love to have Oswalt, but it doesn't look hopeful right now.

[SoxFanForsyth]

No idea.

 

By the way - Is anyone else looking forward to next offseason when Lackey, Ortiz, Youk, Jenks, and DiceK are off our books, and we can go out and sign Cole Hamels??

 

Lester - Hamels - Beckett - Buchholz - Bard/Aceves/Lackey/Wilson??

 

That's going to be sick.

[Palodios]

No idea.

 

By the way - Is anyone else looking forward to next offseason when Lackey, Ortiz, Youk, Jenks, and DiceK are off our books, and we can go out and sign Cole Hamels??

 

Lester - Hamels - Beckett - Buchholz - Bard/Aceves/Lackey/Wilson??

 

That's going to be sick.

 

Wishful thinking?

[Station 13]

No idea.

 

By the way - Is anyone else looking forward to next offseason when Lackey, Ortiz, Youk, Jenks, and DiceK are off our books, and we can go out and sign Cole Hamels??

 

Lester - Hamels - Beckett - Buchholz - Bard/Aceves/Lackey/Wilson??

 

That's going to be sick.

 

Ortiz and Youk are middle of order bats. You have an idea in replacement with Middlebrooks and Lavarnway? Thats not how it works.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

This has been a polar opposite offseason compared to last year.

 

Brutal. Boring. This is typically an extremely exciting time. This year, it's just bleh.

 

Last year we got Crawford and A-god. Lots to be excited about. We haven't made any major acquisitions. Plus the negativity doesn't help.

[SoxFanForsyth]

He's being the good soldier. He is covering Cherries back. Of course he would love to have Oswalt' date=' but it doesn't look hopeful right now.[/quote']

 

I'd be thrilled with Edwin Jackson honestly. Give him 1/9mm. He's off the books next year. Ross is off the books next year, too.

 

Between Ross (3mm), EJax (9mm), Ortiz (12.6mm), DiceK (8.7mm), Youk (10.5mm), and Jenks (6mm), we will clear $49mm off of our LT calc for next year. Get Hamels for 5/90-100, and we're all set.

[Elktonnick]

No idea.

 

By the way - Is anyone else looking forward to next offseason when Lackey, Ortiz, Youk, Jenks, and DiceK are off our books, and we can go out and sign Cole Hamels??

 

Lester - Hamels - Beckett - Buchholz - Bard/Aceves/Lackey/Wilson??

 

That's going to be sick.

 

Got to get through this season first.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Wishful thinking?

 

Something has to get me through this offseason!