2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[User Name]

We get it. You don't like Theo Epstein.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Along with half the board. We need an official Theo thread. Might as well make a Ben the boob one too because he's most likely going to get ripped around here.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

But Theo did f*** up this team-royally. It will take years for us to undo the damage he brought upon the franchise. Look around-Lackey' date=' Crawford, Jenks, the medical staff that misdiagnosed Ellsbury and failed to diagnose Crawford..and so forth. It was his JOB not to make those mistakes, not our. We are fans; we can be wrong. He can't.....but he was. He did an aweful job as GM here, yet there are those who still think he walks on water. Hard to understand.[/quote']

Were you thrown down a flight of stairs as a baby?

[Palodios]

If the Rangers sign Darvish' date=' do the Sox sign Oswalt?[/quote']

 

I wonder who else is looking right now. Most of the teams that supposedly were filled their needs. The Yankees, Rangers, and Diamondbacks are all probably out. The Nationals are probably more concerned about Fielder. I don't see Oswalt wanting to go to Baltimore. The Cardinals seem the most likely fit for Jackson. The Tigers need a bat more. The Cubs probably won't be able to afford him once Selig gives them Crawford...

 

Mystery team, or Red Sox. Write the damn check Ben.

[VA Sox Fan]

But Theo did f*** up this team-royally. It will take years for us to undo the damage he brought upon the franchise. Look around-Lackey' date=' Crawford, Jenks, the medical staff that misdiagnosed Ellsbury and failed to diagnose Crawford..and so forth. It was his JOB not to make those mistakes, not our. We are fans; we can be wrong. He can't.....but he was. He did an aweful job as GM here, yet there are those who still think he walks on water. Hard to understand.[/quote']

Theo was far from perfect and he is a human being. Humans make mistake. I don't hold him in "Christ-like, walking on water" esteem, but I will always be grateful for him helping the Red Sox WIN TWO WORLD SERIES after an 86 year drought. It's harder to understand people's hatred and almost "Anti-Christ" label that is placed on him by some.

 

I hope he helps bring the Cubs a WS. Their fans have suffered longer than we did.

[VA Sox Fan]

Were you thrown down a flight of stairs as a baby?

 

:lol:

 

No offense pg but I really did Laugh Out Loud!

[jung]

Theo has always gotten more credit than he deserved by some and more criticism than he deserved from others.

 

I have a hard time with using terms like "grateful" for the two WS wins with regard to Theo. I don't remember him having any RBI or striking anybody out and he was only partially responsible even in the GM role.

 

I have said this before but I think the Sox failings off the field are organizational in nature. Hard for me to be to critical of one guy whether it is Theo or BC. The Sox are a cross functional mess. Baseball Operations never appears to me to be organizationally empowered to just act in the best interests of the performance of the team on the field. Until that changes i just am not all that interested in who they anoint as the GM. Don't think it much matters.

 

As for JH, don't cry to me JH that you did not want Crawford after the fact. You are the owner of the team. If you did not want that deal to go through then stop it. Don't whine after the fact that you were against it at the time. Either stop the deal when you can or shut up after the fact. You did neither ya' fat head. Oh I guess I am supposed to be grateful to JH too.

[User Name]

Theo has always gotten more credit than he deserved by some and more criticism than he deserved from others.

 

I have a hard time with using terms like "grateful" for the two WS wins with regard to Theo. I don't remember him having any RBI or striking anybody out and he was only partially responsible even in the GM role.

 

I have said this before but I think the Sox failings off the field are organizational in nature. Hard for me to be to critical of one guy whether it is Theo or BC. The Sox are a cross functional mess. Baseball Operations never appears to me to be organizationally empowered to just act in the best interests of the performance of the team on the field. Until that changes i just am not all that interested in who they anoint as the GM. Don't think it much matters.

 

As for JH, don't cry to me JH that you did not want Crawford after the fact. You are the owner of the team. If you did not want that deal to go through then stop it. Don't whine after the fact that you were against it at the time. Either stop the deal when you can or shut up after the fact. You did neither ya' fat head. Oh I guess I am supposed to be grateful to JH too.

 

In my view, Larry Lucchino is the cancer that is eating away at this franchise.

[VA Sox Fan]

Theo has always gotten more credit than he deserved by some and more criticism than he deserved from others.

 

I have a hard time with using terms like "grateful" for the two WS wins with regard to Theo. I don't remember him having any RBI or striking anybody out and he was only partially responsible even in the GM role.

 

I have said this before but I think the Sox failings off the field are organizational in nature. Hard for me to be to critical of one guy whether it is Theo or BC. The Sox are a cross functional mess. Baseball Operations never appears to me to be organizationally empowered to just act in the best interests of the performance of the team on the field. Until that changes i just am not all that interested in who they anoint as the GM. Don't think it much matters.

 

As for JH, don't cry to me JH that you did not want Crawford after the fact. You are the owner of the team. If you did not want that deal to go through then stop it. Don't whine after the fact that you were against it at the time. Either stop the deal when you can or shut up after the fact. You did neither ya' fat head. Oh I guess I am supposed to be grateful to JH too.

 

I agee with the bolded part and some of your other points.

 

LL could be a "George Steinbrenner" after 1999 or the Jerry Jones or the Dan Snyder oh and Peter Angelos etc etc.

 

Time will tell. It's January 2012.

[FredLynn]

We get it. You don't like Theo Epstein.

 

Sharp as a tack, as usual.

[FredLynn]

Were you thrown down a flight of stairs as a baby?

 

Ahhhh....personal insults.

The last resort of the feeble.

[User Name]

My power of deduction is second only to Chuck Norris.

[ORS]

But Theo did f*** up this team-royally. It will take years for us to undo the damage he brought upon the franchise. Look around-Lackey' date=' Crawford, Jenks, the medical staff that misdiagnosed Ellsbury and failed to diagnose Crawford..and so forth. It was his JOB not to make those mistakes, not our. We are fans; we can be wrong. He can't.....but he was. He did an aweful job as GM here, yet there are those who still think he walks on water. Hard to understand.[/quote']

One, I think you are engaging in absurb hyperbole to suggest the status of the team is this bad. Bottom line, they will still field the team that lead the league in runs scored last year, they are set at just about every position for the next couple of years, and the core of the rotation is talented and young enough for reasonable expectation of performance into the near future. The sky isn't falling.

 

Two, like others have said, Epstein wasn't perfect. Who is? However, I suspect we'll get a real idea of what he did for this team over the next few years, and I fear we may have moments, all of us, even the doomsdayers, of whimsical remembrance of what he did for this team. Not deifying icon worship, but a sense that he did something special by putting together the rosters that won 2 championships in 4 years.

[FredLynn]

My power of deduction is second only to Chuck Norris.

 

Chuck Norris never sleeps....................................................................he waits.

[FredLynn]

One, I think you are engaging in absurb hyperbole to suggest the status of the team is this bad. Bottom line, they will still field the team that lead the league in runs scored last year, they are set at just about every position for the next couple of years, and the core of the rotation is talented and young enough for reasonable expectation of performance into the near future. The sky isn't falling.

 

Two, like others have said, Epstein wasn't perfect. Who is? However, I suspect we'll get a real idea of what he did for this team over the next few years, and I fear we may have moments, all of us, even the doomsdayers, of whimsical remembrance of what he did for this team. Not deifying icon worship, but a sense that he did something special by putting together the rosters that won 2 championships in 4 years.

 

He did a poor job as GM IMO. Too many long expensive FA contracts is the major reason. Hiring an incompetent medical staff is another. Allowing the clubhouse to become a circus is another. He did a fair job drafting players; I will give him that.

The current team is not that bad; I agree. Its perhaps good enough to make the playoffs. But with the budget available to it, I expect better.

[VA Sox Fan]

One, I think you are engaging in absurb hyperbole to suggest the status of the team is this bad. Bottom line, they will still field the team that lead the league in runs scored last year, they are set at just about every position for the next couple of years, and the core of the rotation is talented and young enough for reasonable expectation of performance into the near future. The sky isn't falling.

 

Two, like others have said, Epstein wasn't perfect. Who is? However, I suspect we'll get a real idea of what he did for this team over the next few years, and I fear we may have moments, all of us, even the doomsdayers, of whimsical remembrance of what he did for this team. Not deifying icon worship, but a sense that he did something special by putting together the rosters that won 2 championships in 4 years.

 

Realistic and reasonable post, as usual.

 

Not optimistic or pessimistic.

 

A breath of fresh air in the current climate of this board.

[User Name]

One, I think you are engaging in absurb hyperbole to suggest the status of the team is this bad. Bottom line, they will still field the team that lead the league in runs scored last year, they are set at just about every position for the next couple of years, and the core of the rotation is talented and young enough for reasonable expectation of performance into the near future. The sky isn't falling.

 

Two, like others have said, Epstein wasn't perfect. Who is? However, I suspect we'll get a real idea of what he did for this team over the next few years, and I fear we may have moments, all of us, even the doomsdayers, of whimsical remembrance of what he did for this team. Not deifying icon worship, but a sense that he did something special by putting together the rosters that won 2 championships in 4 years.

 

Great post. Completely agree on both counts, but i would like to add that we also don't know to the extent that LL and ownership had influenced whatever problems PG mentioned.

[VA Sox Fan]

Great post. Completely agree on both counts' date=' but i would like to add that[b'] we also don't know to the extent that LL and ownership had influenced whatever problems [/b]PG mentioned.

 

And we may never know. Time will tell.

[mvp 78]

He did a poor job as GM IMO. Too many long expensive FA contracts is the major reason. Hiring an incompetent medical staff is another. Allowing the clubhouse to become a circus is another. He did a fair job drafting players; I will give him that.

The current team is not that bad; I agree. Its perhaps good enough to make the playoffs. But with the budget available to it, I expect better.

 

Theo wasn't in charge of the medical staff hirings. That comes down to LL and ownership. Nice try though. You can't really blame everything on Theo.

[VA Sox Fan]

Theo wasn't in charge of the medical staff hirings. That comes down to LL and ownership. Nice try though. You can't really blame everything on Theo.

 

Seriously!!

 

But "the entourage" LOVES to crap on Theo, Tito, Varitek, Wakefield, Crawford, Beckett, McDonald etc etc. Where is the blame on Tom Werner, Don Orsillo and Jerry Remy?

 

It's like blaming Buckner for game 6.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Scumbag talksox:

 

>We have too many players signed to expensive long term contracts!!

>*Gets mad when Red Sox pass on player that would have require expensive long term contract*

[FredLynn]

Theo wasn't in charge of the medical staff hirings. That comes down to LL and ownership. Nice try though. You can't really blame everything on Theo.

 

If that is true we can take that off his list.

Theo is the reasons the franchise is where it is today-and I don't mean that in a good way. Look at the list of FAs he signed that sucked: Cameron. Gagne, Lackey, Renteria, Lugo, Smoltz, Penny....and on and on and on. How much money has he wasted? A ton. I don't expect perfection, just a good performance in each area of his responsibilities. Look how he has handcuffed us this this year.

Oh-and he really didn't build the 04 team. That was mostly due to the previous GM. He added some good parts, but its not like he built it from scratch.

[FredLynn]

Scumbag talksox:

 

>We have too many players signed to expensive long term contracts!!

>*Gets mad when Red Sox pass on player that would have require expensive long term contract*

 

Awe gee Ellsbury.

Someone put a bug up your ass?

:dunno:

[NativeBostonian]

Along with half the board. We need an official Theo thread. Might as well make a Ben the boob one too because he's most likely going to get ripped around here.

 

Let's just face it. We are going to rip anyone who is in charge if things go wrong. That's just what we do. :harhar:

[seabeachfred]

This brings to mind Dr. Thomas Gill's infamous words 'We aren't going to MRI a bruise' which Ellsbury attributed to him. As it turns out Gill may be the single biggest factor in the Red Sox injury problems of 2010-2012. 'We don't MRI bruises' is probably the slogan that sits on his desk. Ellsbury, Pedroia, Buchholz, Crawford...Gill may be the worst sports medical guy in history.

 

My daughter plays high school basketball and before the year they were all sent for MRI's on their knees as a preventative measure. But the Boston Red Sox scrimp on MRI's.

 

Gill was a ******** of the first order and an incompetent SOB who was the main cause of most of our troubles with injuries the past two seasons. The crime was that Prune Face kept him on after 2010 when it became crystal clear that this guy was a turd and a butcher. Finally he's gone after he's been responsible for some serious damage to our teams health. He missed diagnosed an arm injury to Youk in 2009, did the same with disastrous results with Ellsbury in 2010, and first misdiagnosed Pedroia after he was injured in SF and then gave him the green light to play when he was far from ready. This past season he butchered Buchholz' injury by saying it was minor and refusing to give him an MRI. He and his crud staff as well as our rotten conditioning staff are gone and thank God for that. Too bad it took all that damage to our players through their incompetence before the dickhead Gill and his assorted band of bums were sent packing.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Let's just face it. We are going to rip anyone who is in charge if things go wrong. That's just what we do. :harhar:

 

There's nothing wrong with that, but sometimes it gets absolutely ridiculous.

[FredLynn]

There's nothing wrong with that' date=' but sometimes it gets absolutely ridiculous.[/quote']

 

There is NO ONE here who rips into everything, every time.

If you think there is, name him.

Its a spectrum. Some think the franchise is in better shape, some think its in worse shape. Some think LL is at fault; some think its Henry; some think its Theo.

Hence the disagreements that will go on forever.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Scumbag talksox:

 

>We have too many players signed to expensive long term contracts!!

>*Gets mad when Red Sox pass on player that would have require expensive long term contract*

 

Rofl how incredibly accurate this is.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

There is NO ONE here who rips into everything, every time.

If you think there is, name him.

Its a spectrum. Some think the franchise is in better shape, some think its in worse shape. Some think LL is at fault; some think its Henry; some think its Theo.

Hence the disagreements that will go on forever.

 

I don't have to name anyone. I'm not going to argue this. The pessimist know who they are. I didn't say they rip into everything, every time so I don't know where you got that from.

[FredLynn]

I don't have to name anyone. I'm not going to argue this. The pessimist know who they are. I didn't say they rip into everything' date=' every time so I don't know where you got that from.[/quote']

 

The optimists know who they are. I didn't say they rip into nothing, never.....

See how it works?

Some of us think we are in crappy shape right now. Our posts reflect that.

If you think its all roses, feel free to post that way.

We will see who is right at the end of the season anyway.