2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

He never got equal value for Hudson' date=' Zito, et al. He's had weak teams ever since Moneyball was published.[/quote']

Lol probably his biggest mistake as a GM. Agreeing to be a part of that book.

[Palodios]

They are saying that Bailey will make $3.5 million in 2012. Sweeney made $1.4 million in 2011' date=' and I expect that figure will go up in 2012. How much will the Sox have left to spend on a Starting Pitcher and RH OFer?[/quote']

 

I just read an article that puts the Red Sox at 175-180 million dollars. The cap is 178. They'll definitely go over, but the question is how much?

[jung]

AGons himself claimed to be fatigued at the end of last season. I do think he was negatively impacted by the HR Derby and I also suspect that he did not want to admit it since DM apparently asked him to beg off before going.

 

Don't think AGons wanted to admit that it had been an issue. That said I do take him at his word about the fatigue. Tito was continually looking for days of rest for him and I strongly suspect they both discussed in private what AGons eventually discussed in public. He got tired.

 

I think teams that are involved in efforts to get to the post season will find the going tougher and tougher with regard to travel and schedule. Nobody cares and in fact if you ask the players themselves if somebody holds the carrot of additional income out to them, they will take the money and try to hold up. That does not make it right though.

 

Different sport but a few weeks ago, the Jets got flexed into a Sunday night game at home. Game started at about 8:00 and finished around 11:30. Anybody that has played organized football will tell you that the day following is a total waste. It takes at least 24 hours to stop feeling like you have been in train wreck. So Monday was a wash. They had to fly out on Wednesday for a Thursday night game in Denver against the Broncos.....not a Sunday or Monday game but Thursday night of that same week. They lost that game which is not a surprise. The point is the network wanted its ratings and the league and the owners accommodated them.

 

These "accommodations" get worse and worse and more frequent every year in every pro sport to the point where they effect players. There was no way that the Jets should have been playing on Sunday night in NY and on Thursday night in Denver.

 

Worse than that it is the very best teams that are abused the most as the networks want the contender's games and want them played when they want them played. As I indicated earlier I think the better balanced teams are already prospering at the expense of the teams that are not as well balanced top to bottom. Ignore it if you want to but the examples are more frequent from one year to the next in every pro sport.

[Spitball]

AGons himself claimed to be fatigued at the end of last season. I do think he was negatively impacted by the HR Derby and I also suspect that he did not want to admit it since DM apparently asked him to beg off before going.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ys-accuscore_home_run_derby_jinx_071011

 

Maybe.

[Palodios]

Youk is in his early thirties' date=' Scutaro is in his mid-late thirties, maybe a reliever or two (?), but otherwise you are right. The team is mostly in their prime years.[/quote']

 

Sure, but Scutaro (as well as Ortiz and Youkilis) is signed to a one year contract, so if those players really lose their value, they can released with no consequences past the year. Even their long term contracts don't pay out to anyone past age 36, which includes all Crawford, Gonzalez, Beckett and Lackey (unless Lackey plays for league minimum in 2015).

 

Putting this trade into perspective.

 

They just traded for two closers on the cheap that are age 26 and age 27 for Reddick, a guy with a 7.00 ERA in the majors, and a guy who can't stay on the field.

 

They passed on 34 year old Heath Bell, 39 year old Hawkins, 35 year old Lidge, and 37 year old Nathan, 41 year old Tsaito, 36 year old Cordero, 35 year old Wood, and a broken Broxton. Papelbon, Madson, Francisco, K-rod were the only young arms available, they all cost 10+ million per years and/or are alcoholics and probably would not be a good person to introduce to the clubhouse.

 

In summary, I am very pleased by this trade.

[a700hitter]

I just read an article that puts the Red Sox at 175-180 million dollars. The cap is 178. They'll definitely go over' date=' but the question is how much?[/quote']They had very little room under the cap from the beginning and even less once they had agreed to arbitration with Ortiz. I hope he finishes the job and gets a good starter. If we get a good starter, we'll have some flexibility. Aceves can go back to his best role as a swing man. He'll be starter depth. If Bailey goes down with an injury, Melancon fill in as closer temporarily. If Bailey goes down for a long period, Bard could move back to closer and Aceves could move into the starters role.

[redsoxfan3]

Sure, but Scutaro (as well as Ortiz and Youkilis) is signed to a one year contract, so if those players really lose their value, they can released with no consequences past the year. Even their long term contracts don't pay out to anyone past age 36, which includes all Crawford, Gonzalez, Beckett and Lackey (unless Lackey plays for league minimum in 2015).

 

Putting this trade into perspective.

 

They just traded for two closers on the cheap that are age 26 and age 27 for Reddick, a guy with a 7.00 ERA in the majors, and a guy who can't stay on the field.

 

They passed on 34 year old Heath Bell, 39 year old Hawkins, 35 year old Lidge, and 37 year old Nathan, 41 year old Tsaito, 36 year old Cordero, 35 year old Wood, and a broken Broxton. Papelbon, Madson, Francisco, K-rod were the only young arms available, they all cost 10+ million per years and/or are alcoholics and probably would not be a good person to introduce to the clubhouse.

 

In summary, I am very pleased by this trade.

 

Good point Palodios. I completely agree with you. I am excited in the acquisitions of both Melancon and Bailey. Melancon will be a solid set-up guy that will replace Bard. Bailey will be a solid closer that will replace Paps. I won't expect him to be as dominant as Paps, but he will nonetheless be a good pickup. I am excited about the moves, especially since it only cost us Reddick, Lowrie, and Weiland. Kalish can replace Reddick, I feel like he has a higher ceiling. I also am interested in seeing if we go after another RH right fielder. I saw on MLBTR that Mike Aviles will be fighting for the RF spot. That could be interesting, because I knew when we acquired him last year that they were talking about him possibly playing in the outfield. We might see a platoon of him and Kalish with McDonald being the possible depth guy, although I would like to see us sign someone else for that role. Sweeney will be interesting to watch. I am hoping Aceves can stay in the pen and that we can sign one more starter. With Aceves, Melancon, and Bailey as the 7th, 8th, and 9th combo, I am extremely comfortable. Signing or trading for one other decent starter will make this a good offseason in my opinion. If we can somehow trade for Garza I will be happy. This will be an interesting couple months for us for the remainder of the offseason.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Sure, but Scutaro (as well as Ortiz and Youkilis) is signed to a one year contract, so if those players really lose their value, they can released with no consequences past the year. Even their long term contracts don't pay out to anyone past age 36, which includes all Crawford, Gonzalez, Beckett and Lackey (unless Lackey plays for league minimum in 2015).

 

Putting this trade into perspective.

 

They just traded for two closers on the cheap that are age 26 and age 27 for Reddick, a guy with a 7.00 ERA in the majors, and a guy who can't stay on the field.

 

They passed on 34 year old Heath Bell, 39 year old Hawkins, 35 year old Lidge, and 37 year old Nathan, 41 year old Tsaito, 36 year old Cordero, 35 year old Wood, and a broken Broxton. Papelbon, Madson, Francisco, K-rod were the only young arms available, they all cost 10+ million per years and/or are alcoholics and probably would not be a good person to introduce to the clubhouse.

 

In summary, I am very pleased by this trade.

 

Very well put and articulated. Agree completely!!!

[iortiz]

They had very little room under the cap from the beginning and even less once they had agreed to arbitration with Ortiz. I hope he finishes the job and gets a good starter. If we get a good starter' date=' we'll have some flexibility. Aceves can go back to his best role as a swing man. He'll be starter depth. If Bailey goes down with an injury, Melancon fill in as closer temporarily. If Bailey goes down for a long period, Bard could move back to closer and Aceves could move into the starters role.[/quote']

 

If they get, let's say... Kuroda/Oswalt and my Christmas RH OF present, Benny boy will take all my admiration. If he does that, I guess they will go over by +-20 M.

[a700hitter]

If they get' date=' let's say... Kuroda/Oswalt and my Christmas RH OF present, Benny boy will take all my admiration. If he does that, I guess they will go over by +-20 M.[/quote']I'd be good with this.

[mvp 78]

I want Garza or Wandy and a flier on Webb, Harden or Sheets.

[example1]

I like the idea of Harden. Haven't heard much at all about him this season.

 

I'm also all for the Sox remaning in on Madson if his price falls enough. That would be a tremendous bullpen.

[Spitball]

Sure, but Scutaro (as well as Ortiz and Youkilis) is signed to a one year contract, so if those players really lose their value, they can released with no consequences past the year. Even their long term contracts don't pay out to anyone past age 36, which includes all Crawford, Gonzalez, Beckett and Lackey (unless Lackey plays for league minimum in 2015).

 

Putting this trade into perspective.

 

They just traded for two closers on the cheap that are age 26 and age 27 for Reddick, a guy with a 7.00 ERA in the majors, and a guy who can't stay on the field.

 

They passed on 34 year old Heath Bell, 39 year old Hawkins, 35 year old Lidge, and 37 year old Nathan, 41 year old Tsaito, 36 year old Cordero, 35 year old Wood, and a broken Broxton. Papelbon, Madson, Francisco, K-rod were the only young arms available, they all cost 10+ million per years and/or are alcoholics and probably would not be a good person to introduce to the clubhouse.

 

In summary, I am very pleased by this trade.

 

I am not crazy about this trade, but you put it in a pretty good light with this post.

[iortiz]

I like the idea of Harden. Haven't heard much at all about him this season.

 

I'm also all for the Sox remaning in on Madson if his price falls enough. That would be a tremendous bullpen.

 

Bring Madson if you want, but please, first bring the SP (Kuroda/Oswalt/Garza, etc...)

[a700hitter]

I like the idea of Harden. Haven't heard much at all about him this season.

 

I'm also all for the Sox remaning in on Madson if his price falls enough. That would be a tremendous bullpen.

Are you on some sort of giddy sugar high? ;)

[SoxSport]

SoxSport' date=' you are right on about Bobby running like hell next season. There will be no dull station-to-station dullness and a plethora of double plays we endured with FrancoMa running things the past few years. One word of caution---Crawford hates to bat leadoff; he has said so and his performance there this past season was even more dismal that his overall campaign. If that is where he is going to bat, he either needs a real attitude adjustment or Bobby has to be his Svengali and convince him he is made for that spot. I just don't know about that one, though.[/quote']

 

Seems logical that Ells would bat 3rd considering his power upgrade. That would mean CC batting 1st or 2nd. Pedey seems to own the 2-hole, but he can bat anywhere. I've read they'd like to move Crawford up the batting order where he will take more pitches and get on base more. I'm convinced this team will run a lot more under Bobby.

 

I'm reading now Ben says he likes Sweeney, and they just might platoon him in RF with McDonald or Aviles or somebody else. He hit .293 last year against righties, but has no power or speed. Good defensively. That leaves Kalish as trade bait? Maybe for Garza?

You know Epstein likes Kalish and knows their farm system better than the Cubs'.

[iortiz]

Seems logical that Ells would bat 3rd considering his power upgrade. That would mean CC batting 1st or 2nd. Pedey seems to own the 2-hole, but he can bat anywhere. I've read they'd like to move Crawford up the batting order where he will take more pitches and get on base more. I'm convinced this team will run a lot more under Bobby.

 

I'm reading now Ben says he likes Sweeney, and they just might platoon him in RF with McDonald or Aviles or somebody else. He hit .293 last year against righties, but has no power or speed. Good defensively. That leaves Kalish as trade bait? Maybe for Garza?

You know Epstein likes Kalish and knows their farm system better than the Cubs'.

 

If we go for Garza, Kalish will be just the BEGINING of a large list of top prospects that we will give up. I'd prefer to keep our prospects and go to FA for a guy like Kuroda even if that means go over the cap.

[a700hitter]

Seems logical that Ells would bat 3rd considering his power upgrade. That would mean CC batting 1st or 2nd. Pedey seems to own the 2-hole, but he can bat anywhere. I've read they'd like to move Crawford up the batting order where he will take more pitches and get on base more. I'm convinced this team will run a lot more under Bobby.

 

I'm reading now Ben says he likes Sweeney, and they just might platoon him in RF with McDonald or Aviles or somebody else. He hit .293 last year against righties, but has no power or speed. Good defensively. That leaves Kalish as trade bait? Maybe for Garza?

You know Epstein likes Kalish and knows their farm system better than the Cubs'.

IMO, Kalish has a much higher ceiling than Sweeney.

[SoxSport]

IMO' date=' Kalish has a much higher ceiling than Sweeney.[/quote']

 

Oh sure. But they are thinking about platooning RF. Aviles is playing RF in winter ball right now. It frees up Kalish for another trade. I would shoot for King Felix. Maybe give up Ells for him, and put Kalish in CF. That would shake a few people up.

[iortiz]

Oh sure. But they are thinking about platooning RF. Aviles is playing RF in winter ball right now. It frees up Kalish for another trade. I would shoot for King Felix. Maybe give up Ells for him' date=' and put Kalish in CF. That would shake a few people up.[/quote']

 

If you bring me as well, a guy like Ross, I will likely make the deal done.

[iortiz]

Red Sox Links: Bailey, Sweeney, Starting Pitchers

By Mike Axisa [December 28 at 6:43pm CST]

The Red Sox officially replaced Jonathan Papelbon earlier today, acquiring Andrew Bailey (and Ryan Sweeney) from the Athletics for Josh Reddick and two prospects. Let's round up the latest from Boston, starting with GM Ben Cherington's conference call following today's trade, courtesy of WEEI.com's Rob Bradford...

 

"We’re going to continue to work," said Cherington about the team's pursuit of starting pitching. "We’re actively considering and looking at starting pitching options also, but we haven’t found one yet where we feel like the acquisition cost is the right one. That doesn’t mean that it won’t come. It just hasn’t come yet."

 

Cherington said they are comfortable with Bailey's injury history, which includes Tommy John surgery several years ago and another minor elbow procedure in 2010. Talks about the right-hander started way back during the season, when they were looking for bullpen help during the summer.

 

Sweeney will be in the right field mix, as will Mike Aviles and Darnell McDonald. Cherington said they've tried to acquire Sweeney in the past.

 

Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com says the trade "looks like a steal" for the Red Sox, calling it the finest moment in Cherington's young career as GM.

 

Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports echoes what Cherington said in the conference call, that the Sox are exploring all avenues for rotation help (Twitter link)

[iortiz]

Was this trade a steal for the Red Sox?, I'm not sure whether it was a steal, but seems like the As needed badly an OF like Reddick. Maybe Reddick will be better in Oakland.

[jung]

This trade is without doubt BC's finest moment to date. The only thing I wonder about is some complication to Bailey's health issues that has got Oakland nervous....something that won't really show up in his physical but that made Oakland a bit more pliable than they would have been otherwise.

 

Baring that, I think BC has done well for himself here given what looks like a difficult set of parameters handed him by upper management.

[example1]

I wouldn't read too much into the A's moving Bailey. He was a closer and Beane likes to maxamize that position.

[example1]

Next task: go get Garza.

 

I suspect the rebuilding Cubs would take a deal that includes the Sox younger high level prospects like Cecchini, Coyle, Jacobs, maybe Raunado. At this point the sox should hold onto their higher end depth prospects like Middlebrooks, Kalish, Lavarnway, Doubront, and Wilson. They can and should open the taps on their younger guys for established (not old) talent.

[Soxfan1]

Starting to remind me a little bit too much of the Gagne trade though. An injured, but previously proven effective closer for a young outfielder and some prospects.

[mvp 78]

Bailey is younger than Gagne and cost controlled. He was the best option available. Madson is overpriced and has less of a track record.

[mvp 78]

Was this trade a steal for the Red Sox?' date=' I'm not sure whether it was a steal, but seems like the As needed badly an OF like Reddick. Maybe Reddick will be better in Oakland.[/quote']

 

If Reddick is better in Oakland, good for him. The Sox have enough organizational depth at LH OF.

[mvp 78]

If you bring me as well' date=' a guy like Ross, I will likely make the deal done.[/quote']

 

If you bring in a true #1 like Felix, you don't need Cody Ross.

[Palodios]

Bailey is younger than Gagne and cost controlled. He was the best option available. Madson is overpriced and has less of a track record.

 

Give me the Gagne trade again, and I still do it every single time. There is no way they could have predicted him to have blown up like that.