2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[FredLynn]

True it is not the fans fault. My comment was more a comment on what we will likely be hearing as Beckett's name is announced next season no matter what he does. Oh yea Josh oh yea yea yea....we love you Josh. PATHETIC!

 

While on the topic of Mr Beckett....why did he decide to have anything to say to V about something V said as a sports analyst on a f***ing broadcast. Are you for real Josh? Boy that head must be hard to carry around. Surprised you don't have a couple of fan boys on each shoulder to help carry the weight. *******!

 

Remember: the team was booed off the field during their last home game.

The fans are fed up. They will not tolerate more recalcitrant nonsense from this group of misfits.

[Elktonnick]

We' date=' as fans, are entitled to at least an ALCS appearance every year with this being a big market team and us being the best fans in the universe.[/quote']

 

We as fans are entitled to players putting their best efforts forward. The 2011 Red Sox did not. They lost the respect of their fans. Crawford and Beckett have no right to take out any of their pique with Valentine. He was an analyst with ESPN: he was doing his job, whereas they weren't doing theirs.

 

Beckett , Crawford and any other underperformering player lost all benefit of the doubt from Red Sox fans after their September swoon.

[User Name]

All of the players suck. But not as bad as the FO. They are all unprofessional douches.

[jung]

Beckett , Crawford and any other underperformering player lost all benefit of the doubt from Red Sox fans after their September swoon.

 

Precisely why I am suggesting that these guys are utterly lost. You would have thought they would have had enough sense to just take their foot off the gas for one second. It is the offseason with a new manager coming in. You guys think you owe this organization and its fans and its new manager a break having run the old manager out of town on a rail and having cobbled together the worse collapse in baseball history. But no...not these guys. We will show you Mr New Manager. Ain't nobody takin' my chicken from me! PAAAAAATHETIC.

 

You would think even their agents would say something like Geez you're not really accomplishing anything here...not anything positive anyway.

 

That said those that have commented about the lack of accountability and leadership within the clubhouse itself have made excellent points. I don't see that changing. Our second baseman does not lead that way. I don't think Ells intends being around long enough to be a leader. Youk and Ortiz are to self-centered. AGons to worried about his salvation or some damn thing. Crawford will need to improve his on field performance for any teammate to take him seriously. Lester is sort of in the same boat. Although it might do this team a world of good if the first time Beckett opens his mouth in the clubhouse, Lester steps up and reminds Josh that he took a lot of heat in 2011 for things that Josh really instigated and that if Josh puts the staff in that position again Jon is going to take him to the woodshed. I would suspect if he wanted to Jon could put a serious ass woopin' on Josh.

[FredLynn]

All of the players suck. But not as bad as the FO. They are all unprofessional douches.

 

Thats the spirit!

[User Name]

Everything about the Red Sox sucks. I don't see why people bother defending this team, and specially, the FO.

[jung]

As far as the front office being stingy with dollars...this organization has spend incredible amounts of money. It has just spent it poorly. This year's stinginess is a very common and typical reaction when money has been spent poorly. I can't fault them for reining in the dollars as this is SOP for any business. It just is. Just the wrong year to have expected them to spend money. Does not matter that Theo is gone either. Heads rolling is never the only result in a case like this.

 

We may not like it and it may not even be the right thing for them to do. But you could have taken it to the bank that this is what they were going to do. Wearing blinders to think otherwise.

[User Name]

They are stingy. They have more money, but don't want to sign the players that we, as fans, are entitled to have signed by the FO in order to put us over the top. What they did before does not matter. What matters is what they do now.

[FredLynn]

Precisely why I am suggesting that these guys are utterly lost. You would have thought they would have had enough sense to just take their foot off the gas for one second. It is the offseason with a new manager coming in. You guys think you owe this organization and its fans and its new manager a break having run the old manager out of town on a rail and having cobbled together the worse collapse in baseball history. But no...not these guys. We will show you Mr New Manager. Ain't nobody takin' my chicken from me! PAAAAAATHETIC.

 

You would think even their agents would say something like Geez you're not really accomplishing anything here...not anything positive anyway.

 

That said those that have commented about the lack of accountability and leadership within the clubhouse itself have made excellent points. I don't see that changing. Our second baseman does not lead that way. I don't think Ells intends being around long enough to be a leader. Youk and Ortiz are to self-centered. AGons to worried about his salvation or some damn thing. Crawford will need to improve his on field performance for any teammate to take him seriously. Lester is sort of in the same boat. Although it might do this team a world of good if the first time Beckett opens his mouth in the clubhouse, Lester steps up and reminds Josh that he took a lot of heat in 2011 for things that Josh really instigated and that if Josh puts the staff in that position again John is going to take him to the woodshed. I would suspect if he wanted to John could put a serious ass woopin' on Josh.

 

There is no one in the clubhouse now in the mold of Mike Lowell who can keep the misfits in line. The addition of Punto will help, but we need more guys like him. Professionals. In the end everyone will tow the party line or they will not play ball for this team. Thats what LL had in mind when he hired the Sheriff.

[FredLynn]

As far as the front office being stingy with dollars...this organization has spend incredible amounts of money. It has just spent it poorly. This year's stinginess is a very common and typical reaction when money has been spent poorly. I can't fault them for reining in the dollars as this is SOP for any business. It just is. Just the wrong year to have expected them to spend money. Does not matter that Theo is gone either. Heads rolling is never the only result in a case like this.

 

We may not like it and it may not even be the right thing for them to do. But you could have taken it to the bank that this is what they were going to do. Wearing blinders to think otherwise.

 

Jung: Username is putting you on. He is tired of anything negative being said about this team and is trying to make fun of those of us who do not wear the pink bonnet as often.

[jung]

They are stingy. They have more money, but don't want to sign the players that we, as fans, are entitled to have signed by the FO in order to put us over the top. What they did before does not matter. What matters is what they do now.

 

In the first place this suggests that we know exactly which players they should sign and if that were the case we would be in the business of baseball instead of posting here. In the second place I am sorry to have to say it but ignoring how poorly the money has been spent without upper management and ownership making a statement larger than just personnel is simply not the way business is...just isn't.

 

I expect them to really throttle back on the money this year as a means of resetting expectations within Red Sox baseball operations and then ease off the brakes in the years following. Red Sox Baseball Operations is where they want to have an impact. They could give a rats ass about having an impact on us. I have said this before as well but the Crawford deal has had reach that far exceeded its grasp and was in so many ways the straw that broke the camel's back.

[jung]

Jung: Username is putting you on. He is tired of anything negative being said about this team and is trying to make fun of those of us who do not wear the pink bonnet as often.

 

I don't think User is actually as strident as his posts today suggest and he almost always has his tongue firmly lodged in his cheek. That said he clearly believes the team is going to spend more money this year than I think they are going to spend and I think there are practical business reasons for why they won't spend that much this year.

 

By the way I still think it would do the team a world of good for Lester to kick Beckett's ass the first day of spring training. Wouldn't you love to see that?

[RonVermette]

IF they sign one more quality starter to go with a healthy Buchholz our one weakness will see a major upgrade. No one really knows how they're going to do it but I think they know they have to do it to have a positive feeling across RedSoxNation going into the season. The sooner the better, but the best pitcher is more important.

[mvp 78]

There is no one in the clubhouse now in the mold of Mike Lowell who can keep the misfits in line. The addition of Punto will help' date=' but we need more guys like him. Professionals. In the end everyone will tow the party line or they will not play ball for this team. Thats what LL had in mind when he hired the Sheriff.[/quote']

 

Mike Lowell was a whiney bitch towards the end. Don't know what kind of mold you're looking for.

[Elktonnick]

Mike Lowell was a whiney bitch towards the end. Don't know what kind of mold you're looking for.

 

I didn't think so. Lowell was a class act all the way. He clearly was in physical pain.

[jung]

There are no FA pitchers left that would translate into a major improvement. There are guys like Jackson left and he is not a major improvement in any other way than eating innings.

 

A major improvement at this point would have to come by trade which might kill two birds with one stone. Youk's time has come I think and a package built around him might get us something worth talking about.

[mvp 78]

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/394163-hey-mike-lowell-there-is-no-i-in-t-e-a-m

http://m.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/rob-bradford/2010/05/18/lowells-frustration-continues-mount

 

I think you polyannas are forgetting about Lowell's 2010 me first drama.

 

I'd find more articles, as this was a huge story at the time, but don't think they'd change your mind.

[User Name]

Jung: Username is putting you on. He is tired of anything negative being said about this team and is trying to make fun of those of us who do not wear the pink bonnet as often.

 

So i am not allowed to complain about the things (and there are many) wrong with this team?

 

If anyone's wearing a pink bonnet, it's you. You're the one trying to defend this incompetent FO who can't draft players, sign them, or conduct business.

 

Some here have said several times that the Red Sox don't use a business model to conduct this team.....which is a business. That is outrageous!

 

This team needs a house cleaning!

[FredLynn]

So i am not allowed to complain about the things (and there are many) wrong with this team?

 

If anyone's wearing a pink bonnet, it's you. You're the one trying to defend this incompetent FO who can't draft players, sign them, or conduct business.

 

Some here have said several times that the Red Sox don't use a business model to conduct this team.....which is a business. That is outrageous!

 

This team needs a house cleaning!

 

If that is really what you think, kudos to you. I agree. A housecleaning is in order. The owners are going nowhere, so its from them on down. LL did a good thing hiring Bobby V; now some of the players have to be weeded out-and that has already started. Cherington cannot be blamed: he has been given no resources to spend. You cannot make wine out of water.

[FredLynn]

Mike Lowell was a whiney bitch towards the end. Don't know what kind of mold you're looking for.

 

Mike Lowell was one of the most respected players to play for the Red Sox over the past decade.

[jung]

Since there is no balance on this "team" there really is no formula that will stick with regard to a team leader or team leaders. This is a classic case of 25 players, 25 limos driving the players to and from the park.

 

I think it is time for JH to depart. I am pretty sure he no longer spends any time thinking about where this team is going. His thoughts are dominated by the gigantic financial windfall that will come his way when he sells. I suspect we are into his exit strategy mode right now and I also suspect that his biggest disappointment in Theo and LL is that they sort of tossed a monkey wrench into things and might have even had an impact on the timing of his exit. Make no bones about it though. JH is no Tom Yawkey owning the team till they put him in the grave.

[mvp 78]

Mike Lowell was one of the most respected players to play for the Red Sox over the past decade.

 

Yeah, Remy just loves the guy!

[Spudboy]

I think the 2012 team is only a couple of moves from being a highly competitive team. They need one solid #4 starter so they can put Bard in the closer role. They need to get a good RH OF with good splits against lefties-- maybe Cody Ross. Plus get one more bullpen pitcher-- possibly Wheeler. That would be a very strong team. I wouldn't write them off.

 

I share your optimism. I don't think the Sox have shown their hand just yet.

[jung]

Quote:

Originally Posted by a700hitter

I think the 2012 team is only a couple of moves from being a highly competitive team. They need one solid #4 starter so they can put Bard in the closer role. They need to get a good RH OF with good splits against lefties-- maybe Cody Ross. Plus get one more bullpen pitcher-- possibly Wheeler. That would be a very strong team. I wouldn't write them off.

I share your optimism. I don't think the Sox have shown their hand just yet.

 

And they need a transplant of heart, of whatever got them to love playing baseball in the first place. Anybody got any of that lying around? Can they trade for it....can they buy it? Do they even f***ing remember what the hell it was?

[a700hitter]

I share your optimism. I don't think the Sox have shown their hand just yet.

As the post season passes, the options become less and less and it makes people nervous. These FA players and trade targets that are coming off the board might never have been in the Sox plan, but as fans, we have considered them to be options. As they go to other teams, the anxiety level of the fans rises. They may do something that none of us had thought about. I do think that there is the danger of passing on too many of the available options and being left with inadequate options. They can't expect that any of the solutions will be cheap. If that is what they are aiming for, they are mistaken. The market is very high for pitching this off season. What is the old saying, don't make the perfect the enemy of the good. They might not be able to get the value acquisitions they were hoping to get. They may have to pay market price to fill their holes. I think the goal of getting good players below value is either naive or arrogant. Everyone likes to get a good value. If there is an undervalued player available, there are 29 other GMs that would be interested. The other 29 teams have smart people too.

 

In the end, we have to be hopeful and wait to see what happens. This team doesn't need a lot, but they do need to make a few moves. Right now, our minds are all racing with possibilities both good and bad. I like to discuss these possibilities, but others get bent out of shape about it.

[jung]

I actually don't think the Sox have set their sights on guys that are solid pitchers that fall to the bottom of the heap and the price scale as the offseason progresses as much as they have been hoping to pick up some of the guys in the "hope they don't fall apart" or "hope they have recovered from the most recent injury" category at a bargain and it is that market that seems not to have developed at least to the extent that they have hoped. It is getting to the point where what will remain will truly be the bottom of the barrel. I would love to see what a guy like Jackson actually does end up going for as he is the last pitcher left in my opinion that is a cut above that group of really risky bets.

 

Jackson is exactly the reason why I think that even a Jackson type at a bargain is not where the Sox have been aiming. The most recent G2 has the Sox showing no interest in Jackson. So there ya' go. If they have no interest in Jackson they are not hoping to get a break on a good, solid, innings eating middle of the rotation guy and are looking to get a break on a "loaded with risk, coming of of injury, on the junk pile guy". Oh be still my heart!

 

That has been my point. What is this strategy that has not as yet made itself evident unless it is the one I just identified.

 

The only one remaining would be a strategy based on something of a blockbuster trade or at least the Sox fan boys would likely consider it a blockbuster. It will likely take one of the entitled, pampered stars being shown the exit door to get something real to happen. Could be the best thing for them actually.

[Spudboy]

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20111223&content_id=26230796&vkey=news_t533&fext=.jsp&sid=t533

 

Nice little piece about Tazawa. He's another guy we will likely see from the system this year. I like that he gets the Ks.

 

Thanks for posting this link. I have liked what I have seen from Tazawa. This article affirms what I have observed of him. He is a competitor. Maybe not as fierce as Bob Gibson or Vida Blue but he certainly has the instincts and desire to challenge hitters. I hope he succeeds.

The Sox could sure use him.

[Spudboy]

That's generational talent, and a ridiculously high standard to be held to.

 

Lester is a bit wild, but he does have cojones. At his best, he is a stopper, and overall, provides ace-level production, but seems kind of immature. I believe, for some reason, that he will react with a season for the ages after he was implicated in Chicken-and-Beer-gate.

 

I don't know you. But I will ask you this. Why do you act like an antagonistic dick-head when you are capable of really good posts like this?

[Spudboy]

As I said' date=' I could not care less if you like what I write, and I most certainly do not give a damn what you write about me. [b']Don't overestimate the value of your opinion here: its frequently worthless.[/b]

 

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!111!!11!1

[Spudboy]

Well Bucholz has the potential but hasn't put it all together (some guys take a lot longer than others, look at Cliff Lee) and you never know what Josh Beckett is going to show up. Last year's Beckett was a true ace. And you never know if he may show up again.

 

The beauty of the 2012 Red Sox lies in the fact that they're such a huge enigma.

 

Another good post. You should do this more often.