2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[Spitball]

And Beltran comes off the board. My Christmas wish list is disappearing fast. Garza is still available.

 

I don't really understand the Cardinals signing a guy with bad knees who will have to move to centerfield when Allen Craig returns from surgery.

 

Garza is going to cost about what Mat Latos and Gio Gonzalez cost in multiple top prospects. I'm not against trading prospects for a proven pitcher, but I'm not sure the Red Sox have the ready and almost ready prospects the Reds and Nationals recently traded.

 

It is frustrating because the starting pitching has to be addressed in my opinion.

[a700hitter]

And a reliever comes off the Board

Cubs Sign Manny Corpas

By Mark Polishuk [December 22 at 7:51pm CST]

 

The Cubs have signed right-hander Manny Corpas to a one-year deal, reports Bruce Levine of ESPN Chicago (via Twitter).

[example1]

That's probably a bad signing, because Theo doesn't know how to build a bullpen.

[example1]

And Beltran comes off the board. My Christmas wish list is disappearing fast. Garza is still available.

 

Thirteen mil a year is a high price for creaky knees and significant injury history. The Cardinals had the money to pay that, given their disappointment with Pujols. Not shocked that the Sox weren't willing to go that high.

[Palodios]

As I've said in the past... Beltran was bound to be a consolation prize for the first base sweepstakes. I feel sorry for the Cardinals, that they had to pay that much for a guy who has missed more games than JD Drew.

[a700hitter]

Thirteen mil a year is a high price for creaky knees and significant injury history. The Cardinals had the money to pay that' date=' given their disappointment with Pujols. Not shocked that the Sox weren't willing to go that high.[/quote']I'm not shocked either. The minute that Pujols left, I posted that I was relatively certain Beltran would end up with the Cards for the reasons you have stated.

[a700hitter]

As I've said in the past... Beltran was bound to be a consolation prize for the first base sweepstakes. I feel sorry for the Cardinals' date=' that they had to pay that much for a guy who has missed more games than JD Drew.[/quote']When healthy he plays every day. Drew never did that at any point in his career.

[Palodios]

When healthy he plays every day. Drew never did that at any point in his career.

 

And Beltran hasn't done that in three years.

[a700hitter]

And Beltran hasn't done that in three years.

Knee micro-surgery is the explanation, not a series of mystery strains and tweaks.

[Palodios]

Knee micro-surgery is the explanation' date=' not a series of mystery strains and tweaks.[/quote']

 

You always emphasize results over all else. If he's not on the field, he's not on the field. This is not about JD Drew, its about Beltran missing 180 games over the last three years. No excuses.

[a700hitter]

You always emphasize results over all else. If he's not on the field' date=' he's not on the field. This is not about JD Drew, its about Beltran missing 180 games over the last three years. No excuses.[/quote']Beltran's knees are healthy now. He's a good bet to be on the field every day.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I actually still really like WMB + Ranaudo + Bogaerts + Lavarnway for Garza + Soriano + enough money to take Soriano's contract down to 3/18.

 

I think this is more and more likely based on this:

 

Cubs Planning "Complete And Total Rebuild"

By Mark Polishuk [December 22 at 9:18pm CST]

The Cubs are attempting to deal "most of their valuable assets" before Spring Training begins and "a complete overhaul of the team will definitely happen," two Major League sources tell David Kaplan of CSN Chicago. The impending Sean Marshall-for-Travis Wood trade is the first step in this process, as the Cubs are acquiring a young, controllable, 24-year-old southpaw starter for a 29-year-old reliever who was set to earn $3.1MM in 2012.

 

Luckily both Theo and Hoyer are extremely familiar with the Red Sox farm system, so it only seems right that they would be able to work out a deal with Cherington.

[a700hitter]

I actually still really like WMB + Ranaudo + Bogaerts + Lavarnway for Garza + Soriano + enough money to take Soriano's contract down to 3/18.

Would you move Crawford to RF to make room for Soriano in LF?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Would you move Crawford to RF to make room for Soriano in LF?

 

I'd put Soriano in RF.

 

Career 50.3 UZR in the OF over 6 seasons. Good arm strength. Speed consistent with Drew. I think he would be just find there.

[jung]

They have so much money invested in Crawford and he has so many issues confronting him at this point I would not throw a new field at him at this point...especially right at Fenway which is entirely different from left and not at all easy to play. If they had paid much less money for him or if he had a good 2011 I would be willing to risk it...but not now.

 

The deeper we get into the offseason the more I find myself wishing that Theo had taken a vacation just before the Crawford signing. Forever more when you google Albatross there will be a reference that reads "see Red Sox signing of Carl Crawford.

[a700hitter]

I'd put Soriano in RF.

 

Career 50.3 UZR in the OF over 6 seasons. Good arm strength. Speed consistent with Drew. I think he would be just find there.

He has terrible judgment and instincts in the OF. They gave up tying to even to get him in proper position for hitters. Piniella just threw up his hands and let him play wherever he wanted. He would position himself ridiculously close to the LF foul line for almost every batter. I'd stick him in LF where a mistake would just be double. In RF, a mistake is a triple or inside the park homer.

[italstallianion]

I actually still really like WMB + Ranaudo + Bogaerts + Lavarnway for Garza + Soriano + enough money to take Soriano's contract down to 3/18.

 

I think this is more and more likely based on this:

 

 

 

Luckily both Theo and Hoyer are extremely familiar with the Red Sox farm system, so it only seems right that they would be able to work out a deal with Cherington.

 

 

Why not go for Marmol while we're at it? Do that deal and call it an offseason.

[mvp 78]

I'd consider CC in RF. His speed is wasted in LF at Fenwauy. Hewouldn't be Dewey out there, but he seems too timid near the LF wall.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Why not go for Marmol while we're at it? Do that deal and call it an offseason.

 

Who is this? :harhar:

 

I'm actually fine with Marmol. Had a bit of a down year last year. Make him a set up man with Melancon and Bard the closer, I think that'd be fine.

 

I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic or not, but I like the idea.

[example1]

Who is this? :harhar:

 

I'm actually fine with Marmol. Had a bit of a down year last year. Make him a set up man with Melancon and Bard the closer, I think that'd be fine.

 

I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic or not, but I like the idea.

 

Marmol is a mess in pressure situations. He's obviously very talented, but he has a tendency to lose the strikezone and have absolutely horrible innings. Perhaps as a semi-significant setup man, but not in any huge role.

 

Of course, Theo might see the same thing and be willing to move him without costing the farm like Bailey would, in which case he wouldn't be a terrible option.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Marmol is a mess in pressure situations. He's obviously very talented, but he has a tendency to lose the strikezone and have absolutely horrible innings. Perhaps as a semi-significant setup man, but not in any huge role.

 

Of course, Theo might see the same thing and be willing to move him without costing the farm like Bailey would, in which case he wouldn't be a terrible option.

 

The main point is that we would get Garza in the deal, be able to move Bard to the bullpen as the closer where we know he dominates high-leverage situations (September withstanding), have Marmol/Jenks/Morales in the 7th inning, Jenks/Melancon in the 8th inning, and Bard in the 9th inning. It would give a lot of options and would make our rotation much better.

 

Plus, if we got Soriano in the deal, he OPS'd .760 last season. It's not elite, but he's good for 20-25 HR a season, maybe 25-30 at Fenway, and he would add .100 points to last year's RF (which OPS'd a combined .652). And getting that RF production for around 6-7mm a season would be a very good deal.

 

So, upgrade in the pen, upgrade at SP, upgrade in RF and have a RH bat who, by the way, has a career .867 OPS vs LHP and OPS'd .944 vs LHP in 2010.

[User Name]

Why are you so intent on selling the farm for two years of a good, not great pitcher, an overpaid OF who can't catch the ball or take a walk, and a closer who can't close?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Why are you so intent on selling the farm for two years of a good' date=' not great pitcher, an overpaid OF who can't catch the ball or take a walk, and a closer who can't close?[/quote']

 

Because...

 

1. We clearly have very different opinions of Garza. I think he's a fantastic talent that we could lock up long term.

 

2. He is overpaid right now, but if we got $$$ for him and had him at a deal of 3/18 or 3/21, he wouldn't be overpaid and would be an upgrade over our current RF by over 100 points in OPS, plus he hits 20-25 HR a season. 3/54 is clearly not worth it, but if they ate a good bit of his contract, it would be worth it. Plus, he's got a solid UZR so I think he's catching undue grief on his defense.

 

3. Getting Garza would move Bard to the closer, so we wouldn't need Marmol to close, but saying you wouldn't want him as a 7th or 8th inning set up guy seems a bit closed minded. If we had a back end of the bullpen of Jenks, Melancon, Morales, Marmol, Bard, I think we could win a lot of games in the first 6 innings.

[example1]

Why are you so intent on selling the farm for two years of a good' date=' not great pitcher, an overpaid OF who can't catch the ball or take a walk, and a closer who can't close?[/quote']

 

I could see moving a few pieces of the Sox farm for Garza, like Middlebrooks and Reddick or something. Not the majority of the farm by any stretch.

 

Soriano. No. The Cubs should be stuck with him. Terrible, terrible signing.

 

Marmol, meh. Would I rather have his arm than, say, Andrew Miller's on the mound in a key situation? Yeah. Would I want him closing? No.

[User Name]

Garza's a good pitcher, but not that good. Soriano, even if he weren't overpaid, still sucks. Marmol would be a good option for the 7th inning were he not making seven million in 2012 and a guaranteed 9.8 in 2013.

 

In my opinion, not a good idea.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Come on guys, I'm just spitballin here! Cut me some slack!

 

I added Soriano to the deal because I think, for $6mm, he could be a viable RF. We're not asking him to be a middle-of-the-order bat, but rather to be our #7 or #8 hitter in our lineup. And if we can get a .760 OPS, 25 HR, 80 RBI, and an .830+ OPS vs LHP from our #8 hitting RF for $6mm, I think that would be a fantastic deal.

 

Not to mention, I really think it would give some leverage in the Garza deal. Almost tack it on as another prospect. So maybe Middlebrooks + Reddick + Lavarnway + Theo's Compenstion for Garza + Soriano + $$$. I don't think that's enough prospects to get it done, but I'm too tired to analyze further right now.

[a700hitter]

Come on guys, I'm just spitballin here! Cut me some slack!

 

I added Soriano to the deal because I think, for $6mm, he could be a viable RF. We're not asking him to be a middle-of-the-order bat, but rather to be our #7 or #8 hitter in our lineup. And if we can get a .760 OPS, 25 HR, 80 RBI, and an .830+ OPS vs LHP from our #8 hitting RF for $6mm, I think that would be a fantastic deal.

 

Not to mention, I really think it would give some leverage in the Garza deal. Almost tack it on as another prospect. So maybe Middlebrooks + Reddick + Lavarnway + Theo's Compenstion for Garza + Soriano + $$$. I don't think that's enough prospects to get it done, but I'm too tired to analyze further right now.

I think if Crawford could play RF, Soriano in LF is not a crazy notion. I'd split time between him and Kalish, although Kalish is a far superior RF to Crawford.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I think if Crawford could play RF' date=' Soriano in LF is not a crazy notion. I'd split time between him and Kalish, although Kalish is a far superior RF to Crawford.[/quote']

 

Crawford's arm would get butchered out in RF. He would get run on more than Varitek. Kalish, on the other hand, has an absolute cannon of an arm.

 

Really, this was just trying to think of ways to get Garza outside of a 5 for 1 deal.

[User Name]

Come on guys, I'm just spitballin here! Cut me some slack!

 

I added Soriano to the deal because I think, for $6mm, he could be a viable RF. We're not asking him to be a middle-of-the-order bat, but rather to be our #7 or #8 hitter in our lineup. And if we can get a .760 OPS, 25 HR, 80 RBI, and an .830+ OPS vs LHP from our #8 hitting RF for $6mm, I think that would be a fantastic deal.

 

Not to mention, I really think it would give some leverage in the Garza deal. Almost tack it on as another prospect. So maybe Middlebrooks + Reddick + Lavarnway + Theo's Compenstion for Garza + Soriano + $$$. I don't think that's enough prospects to get it done, but I'm too tired to analyze further right now.

 

Why not Marlon Byrd? He can actually play the OF.

 

Also, Lavarnway and WMB should not be a part of a deal for a pitcher you will have for two years. Both project as everyday players for the Sox making the league minimum. That, in itself, is more valuable than two years of Garza.

[a700hitter]

Crawford's arm would get butchered out in RF. He would get run on more than Varitek. Kalish, on the other hand, has an absolute cannon of an arm.

 

Really, this was just trying to think of ways to get Garza outside of a 5 for 1 deal.

Like you said. We were spit-balling. We don't have to defend everything to the death. Why should we be held to a higher standard than Ben, who hasn't had to defend his offer of arbitration to Ortiz.