2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[User Name]

Chris Young plays CF, the guy this signing would make available is Gerardo Parra.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I also read that Kubel's signing could make Parra available in a trade.

 

That wouldn't be bad. Not going to kill you with power, but hits well for average.

[User Name]

Parra is a lefty that can't hit lefties. .665 career OPS against them. Not a fit.

[a700hitter]

Today there is an article in the Herald about Joel Hanrahan being trade bait this off season. I wouldn't mind getting him to be the closer if we can't land a good starter via trade.

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/other_mlb/view/20111219trade_talk_doesnt_faze_pirates_closer_joel_hanrahan/

 

I have been reading about Ryan Ludwick as a possible RH OF for the Sox, but I'm not too crazy about this guy.

[seabeachfred]

Ellsbury's agent is Scott Boras Fred. If you want them to stop dealing with Boras' date=' you can kiss Ellsbury goodbye, is what MVP is trying to say here.[/quote']

 

User, maybe I should have said after we resign Ellsbury, but I'm pretty certain that we will be unable to keep him. Boras will want a fortune and we already spent it on Crawford who I think was signed by Epstein because he knew Ells was gone after 2013. It was pretty obvious that Jacoby had little use for his former GM, especially when he moved him to LF to "save his legs", one of the dumbest and most idiotic things I ever heard some baseball exec say. Maybe, though, with him gone Ells might reconsider if we are willing to put up the money.

 

On another point why all this hoopla about us getting Gio Gonzales? Like you I look at this guy with a jaundiced eye. His control is suspect and he pitches in a pitcher's park in a predominantly pitcher's division. How would he fare in a hitter's division like the AL East? How would be cope pitching in the pressure of Boston? I do know that Beane overhypes his players so we should be careful there. I would rather look elsewhere for a starting pitcher if you want to know my opinion on it.

[SoxSport]

The Red Sox have a history of dealing with Boras, even if he is an SOB. He and Steinbrenner are the two most responsible for salary inflation since the advent of free agency. The bar has always been set by Boras and Steinbrenner signings. How the biggest market, NY, got to set the bar for every other team is a question MLB has never answered.

 

The team that won't deal with Boras is the Phillies. He is hated in Philly after steering Drew away from the Phillies to the Cardinals in the draft. It has gone unsaid in the media, but that's why the Phillies owners reneged on the Madson deal approved by their GM--who wasn't around for the Drew situation. But the owners were. And Madson made the mistake of being a Boras client--which was a ticket out of Philly.

 

The Red Sox will deal with Boras--they are one of his good customers. Ellsbury has to show last year was not a fluke, however. As Braun recently showed, you never know what is going on in baseball. It's still the wild, wild west.

[mvp 78]

cough cough Tom Hicks Arod contract cough cough

[SoxSport]

cough cough Tom Hicks Arod contract cough cough

 

There are exceptions to every rule.

 

The extension ARod just got from the Yankees is even worse. And Steinbrenner was doing it when Hicks was in school.

[mvp 78]

Hicks blew up the market then cried poor a few years later and complained about rising salaries. To me, he is the lowest of the low.

[SoxSport]

You know guys' date=' I would love to start seeing teams stop dealing with Boras' humongous demands for contracts. GM Ken Williams of the White Sox will not deal with him and lets his players know that if they sign with him they will be dealt out of Chicago. I think there is another GM who recently went on record saying he wouldn't deal with Boras any more. With him it is always which team gives the most money, which I guess means "it's always about the money"---right? Yet there are advantages to taking a little less to play in a better venue as Jared Weaver did with the Angels. Prince Fielder knows he can go back to Milwaukee and get a good contract and play in a city he said he enjoys playing in and for fans who have treated him like a hero. Is a couple of million more a year for five or six really that important than playing in a place where you have a comfort zone? I wonder what Werth is thinking right now, or Crawford for that matter?[/quote']

 

Spot on. The Phillies won't deal with him, either. Re: Madson. It's the Phillies ownership that won't deal with him--because of Drew. There is a +/- effect taking on Boras as an agent: He will get you more money, if that's what you want. But some teams won't deal with him, especially the smaller TV markets.

 

At some point, Boras will soften his demands if he can't get a sign. That happened with Beltre

a couple of years ago signing in Boston. But you have to wait. He will have to come down on Fielder (he won't get more than 7-8 years), and maybe Madson (closers are overvalued by agents--who look at fantasy saves.)

[seabeachfred]

Spot on. The Phillies won't deal with him, either. Re: Madson. It's the Phillies ownership that won't deal with him--because of Drew. There is a +/- effect taking on Boras as an agent: He will get you more money, if that's what you want. But some teams won't deal with him, especially the smaller TV markets.

 

At some point, Boras will soften his demands if he can't get a sign. That happened with Beltre

a couple of years ago signing in Boston. But you have to wait. He will have to come down on Fielder (he won't get more than 7-8 years), and maybe Madson (closers are overvalued by agents--who look at fantasy saves.)

 

I don't know why the Red Sox even deal with this *******. Yes we need to temper our anger because of Ellsbury, but most of us think he'll be gone after 2013 no matter what even though I hold some hope that we can get him to re-up with us now that his despised former GM is off to Chicago. The White Sox and Phillies will not deal with him, but the Sox should have some bitterness as well. In late 2005 with all the talk that Johnny Damon would stay with the Red Sox since there was no better offer out there, Boras went to the Yankees and got them to better the deal. Damon was then gone to the EE. In late 2008 Boras pulled the same crap with us in the Teixiera caper. We were negotiating and settling on a fair price when that bastard once again went to the Yankees and then Mark was gone.

 

Mark then led the Yankees to the 2009 World Series Title. We now have Adrian Gonzales and he has led us to s***. I expect Adrian to bust his balls and led us to a WS championship just as Tex did for the Yankees. I will accept nothing less from him because that's why we got him in the first place.

 

As you might gather I'm a little pissed off right now. Every time I think of what Boras pulled on us with Damon and Teixiera I wish I had my hands around his throat.

[Meh]

Mark then led the Yankees to the 2009 World Series Title. We now have Adrian Gonzales and he has led us to s***. I expect Adrian to bust his balls and led us to a WS championship just as Tex did for the Yankees. I will accept nothing less from him because that's why we got him in the first place.

 

If you really want Tex, I'm sure Cashman would trade you Tex for A-Gon. Be happy you got an all star 1B with a good glove at 1B.

[jung]

Geez...these guys are not Gods...their baseball players. AGons does not impress me as a "get on my back and I will take you to the promised land" kind of player. He is a great player but he is a cog in the machine. They will win or lose as a team. Like it or not I don't see any Shillings, Yaz or even a Rice or a Fisk on this team.

 

Before we start singing the praises of Ortiz, remember how old he will be come the 2012 season. I would hope we get a good year out of him but I don't expect a "climb on my back year out of him".

[User Name]

No one is. Because baseball is a team sport. 2004 was not Schilling by himself you know.

[Spitball]

I also read that Kubel's signing could make Parra available in a trade.

 

Parra is a lefty and not what the Sox really need. However, Parra can also play centerfield which might make Chris Young and his right handed power bat available. He has played center in his career but surely can adjust to playing right.

[SoxSport]

I don't know why the Red Sox even deal with this *******. Yes we need to temper our anger because of Ellsbury, but most of us think he'll be gone after 2013 no matter what even though I hold some hope that we can get him to re-up with us now that his despised former GM is off to Chicago. The White Sox and Phillies will not deal with him, but the Sox should have some bitterness as well. In late 2005 with all the talk that Johnny Damon would stay with the Red Sox since there was no better offer out there, Boras went to the Yankees and got them to better the deal. Damon was then gone to the EE. In late 2008 Boras pulled the same crap with us in the Teixiera caper. We were negotiating and settling on a fair price when that bastard once again went to the Yankees and then Mark was gone.

 

Mark then led the Yankees to the 2009 World Series Title. We now have Adrian Gonzales and he has led us to s***. I expect Adrian to bust his balls and led us to a WS championship just as Tex did for the Yankees. I will accept nothing less from him because that's why we got him in the first place.

 

As you might gather I'm a little pissed off right now. Every time I think of what Boras pulled on us with Damon and Teixiera I wish I had my hands around his throat.

 

I feel your pain. Honest I do.

 

The Tex thing was piss-poor, the way Henry went down there thinking there was a deal.

Boras is a shark, and you have to be a shark to deal with him. He is a power player who even has his own finishing school for his clients. Can't trust him.

 

As for Damon, the Sox made a deliberate decision not to sign him. They knew they could get Crisp, and Damon wouldn't last in CF beyond 2 years, and they didn't want him for LF or DH. He had much better value on the Yankees. They played him in CF a year or so, then shifted him to LF--and finally DH. They got more production out of him with their short RF porch. So it was a good sign for NY--even though they overpaid for him.

 

What the Sox missed on Damon was his competitiveness and clubhouse chemistry. They undervalued that. And they still undervalue these intangibles that don't show up on stat sheets. That's the weakness of having a stats-obsessed FO. And that's why they've sucked the last two years--in part. The other part is bad pitching--and bad handling of pitching.

[a700hitter]

Parra is a lefty and not what the Sox really need. However' date=' Parra can also play centerfield which might make Chris Young and his right handed power bat available. He has played center in his career but surely can adjust to playing right.[/quote']Young had an off year in 2011. My recollection is that he had a wrist problem for a substantial portion of the season. They would be selling low on him if they trade him now.

[VA Sox Fan]

No one is. Because baseball is a team sport. 2004 was not Schilling by himself you know.

 

So true. A huge team effort and success. From the top to the bottom.

 

All WS Champs win it because of a team effort. No matter which team and when.

[SoxSport]

If you really want Tex' date=' I'm sure Cashman would trade you Tex for A-Gon. Be happy you got an all star 1B with a good glove at 1B.[/quote']

 

Tex looks like a bust for what they paid for him. He's a .250 hitter who's lucky he's hitting in Yankee Stadium. AGon looks like a monster hitter, though he trailed off last year. Hopefully his shoulder just weakened a bit. But he's a quiet guy, and not much of a team leader. Pedey has to step up, maybe with Youks and one or two others. It's usually the guys who have come up through the farm system.

[User Name]

 

What the Sox missed on Damon was his competitiveness and clubhouse chemistry. They undervalued that. And they still undervalue these intangibles that don't show up on stat sheets. That's the weakness of having a stats-obsessed FO. And that's why they've sucked the last two years--in part. The other part is bad pitching--and bad handling of pitching.

 

Yes, that's exactly why the Sox draft players like Kalish who have, in the words of a scout "Dirt-dog mentality" and sign players like Marco Scutaro.

 

What the hell are you talking about?

[Spitball]

Young had an off year in 2011. My recollection is that he had a wrist problem for a substantial portion of the season. They would be selling low on him if they trade him now.

 

He had wrist and thumb problems. It is always a good idea to buy low. I just can't imagine what the D'backs will do with four outfielders. I'm guessing Young makes more money than Parra and that might make Young expendable.

[a700hitter]

He had wrist and thumb problems. It is always a good idea to buy low. I just can't imagine what the D'backs will do with four outfielders. I'm guessing Young makes more money than Parra and that might make Young expendable.

He's big talent. Getting him for a low value would be a big score for the Sox.

[redsoxfan3]

I was looking at options for a RH right fielder. What about Reed Johnson? He hit .309 for the Cubs last year. I haven't heard much about him. How much would he cost? He made $900K last year and I'm assuming that he wouldn't get much more. He only played in 111 games last year and is 35. Maybe he could be a cheap signing and would work in a platoon role in right field? I am not big on guys like Magglio Ordonez, Cody Ross, Ryan Ludwick, or Xavier Nady. Obviously Beltran is the best option, but the most expensive.

[jung]

While it takes a team to win there are players that have leadership characteristics that result in the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. Sometimes it is referred to as the "the straw that stirs the drink", other times it is the "glue that binds them". I just don't see much in that regard from this current crop of Red Sox. Does not mean they can't win or won't win. That just is not a characteristic that I think any of them exhibit. Schill did, Yaz did.....to some extent even Rice and Fisk did.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Young is due 2 years/15.5mm on his contract with a club option for $11.5mm in 2014. He's solid defensively (14.8 UZR last year), will see his numbers rise at Fenway (pull hitter, see graph from my previous post), but he does strike out a lot (21-22% of his AB).

 

Parra made 426k last season, has put up a combined 23.7 UZR over the past 2 seasons, is a .355 OBP guy, and strikes out about 16% of the time.

 

The DBacks only had 3 guys with OBP's over .350 last season, and Parra was one of them.

 

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they put Chris Young on the block and stayed with Parra, and then picked up a 4th OF in the trade along with a young prospect.

 

I'd trade Reddick + 2 mid-level prospects for Young, and I think that could well get it done.

[User Name]

Two words: Dustin Pedroia. @ Jung.

[User Name]

Young is due 2 years/15.5mm on his contract with a club option for $11.5mm in 2014. He's solid defensively (14.8 UZR last year), will see his numbers rise at Fenway (pull hitter, see graph from my previous post), but he does strike out a lot (21-22% of his AB).

 

Parra made 426k last season, has put up a combined 23.7 UZR over the past 2 seasons, is a .355 OBP guy, and strikes out about 16% of the time.

 

The DBacks only had 3 guys with OBP's over .350 last season, and Parra was one of them.

 

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they put Chris Young on the block and stayed with Parra, and then picked up a 4th OF in the trade along with a young prospect.

 

I'd trade Reddick + 2 mid-level prospects for Young, and I think that could well get it done.

 

Two things i see wrong with this scenario:

 

1) Chase Field is a launching pad. Fenway is not likely to increase Young's power numbers, even though you could argue that the AL East has more favorable road stadiums, it also has better pitching.

 

2) It would take more than Reddick and two mid-level prospects to trade for a guy capable of 30 HR's and GG D at C who is cost-controlled (technically) at 7.5 mill for the next two seasons.

[Spitball]

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they put Chris Young on the block and stayed with Parra, and then picked up a 4th OF in the trade along with a young prospect.

 

I'd trade Reddick + 2 mid-level prospects for Young, and I think that could well get it done.

 

That sounds good to me and more than reasonable for the D'backs.

[Spitball]

Two things i see wrong with this scenario:

 

1) Chase Field is a launching pad. Fenway is not likely to increase Young's power numbers, even though you could argue that the AL East has more favorable road stadiums, it also has better pitching.

 

2) It would take more than Reddick and two mid-level prospects to trade for a guy capable of 30 HR's and GG D at C who is cost-controlled (technically) at 7.5 mill for the next two seasons.

 

I see salary relief as being their motivation.

[a700hitter]

While it takes a team to win there are players that have leadership characteristics that result in the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. Sometimes it is referred to as the "the straw that stirs the drink"' date=' other times it is the "glue that binds them". I just don't see much in that regard from this current crop of Red Sox. Does not mean they can't win or won't win. That just is not a characteristic that I think any of them exhibit. Schill did, Yaz did.....to some extent even Rice and Fisk did.[/quote']No one took the mound with Schilling in game 6 of the 2004 ALCS with his ankle sewn together.