Back end of the Rotation

[Emmz]

In 2010' date=' he pitched to career averages from June onwards, and ended with a WAR of 4.0, as a top 14 valuable pitcher in the AL, and a model of consistency. For some reason this gets ignored, and he gets s*** on because he is who he is. You were the one who was bringing up sabermetic monetary values, in 2010, he was worth 15.9 million.[/quote']

 

Only because of the inflating value of starting pitchers. He could very well be worth his salary this year with as s***** numbers as 2010 because of that. You fanboys tried to justify his contract all offseason with "the inflating value of starting pitchers will prove to make him a bargain!". Which is the worst excuse for overpaying someone I've ever heard.

 

His overall performance was below average, and his career averages, as I said before, are overrated. He could very well earn his contract this year, but so could almost any pitcher can. s***, Daisuke's earned his contract according to value sabermetrics. But hey, the inflating of price for pitchers made Daisuke totally worth his contract, right?

[Palodios]

Only because of the inflating value of starting pitchers. He could very well be worth his salary this year with as s***** numbers as 2010 because of that. You fanboys tried to justify his contract all offseason with "the inflating value of starting pitchers will prove to make him a bargain!". Which is the worst excuse for overpaying someone I've ever heard.

 

Find one single post where I talked about inflation. I was pretty consistent about my argument-- he's an innings eater, a solid #2/3 type, incredibly consistent and healthy, a true competitor, whose presence will protect the team's young pitchers from being called up early/ overuse in the pen. Anyone who overrates him doesn't understand what value he provides. He is what he is. People seem to expect him to be something he's not, and don't like him because he can't fill those unreasonable expectations.

[Emmz]

Not worth the effort to go back through your past couple-thousand posts, not to mention I never mentioned you in that category. I like Lackey, and I agree with how you just now stated his value to be, which is as a solid pitcher who's good for a consistent 7 inning, 3 run performance for the most part. I never expected him to be the ace others thought he would be, I definitely think if he put up the performance I expected him to, which is his career averages possibly inflated by the AL East a tad. He's been a little disappointing overall, that's all. I thought he'd adjusted, but this season needs to turn around quickly, hopefully his last performance is the turnaround.

[ORS]

Only because of the inflating value of starting pitchers. He could very well be worth his salary this year with as s***** numbers as 2010 because of that. You fanboys tried to justify his contract all offseason with "the inflating value of starting pitchers will prove to make him a bargain!". Which is the worst excuse for overpaying someone I've ever heard.

 

His overall performance was below average, and his career averages, as I said before, are overrated. He could very well earn his contract this year, but so could almost any pitcher can. s***, Daisuke's earned his contract according to value sabermetrics. But hey, the inflating of price for pitchers made Daisuke totally worth his contract, right?

The price of the market is what it is (depending on what measure of production you use to determine the values). What's interesting to me is that in may cases, players that you think of as being really overpaid tend to show up as "at value" by fangraphs Salary by WAR statistic. What I find interesting is that it shows just how risky/expensive the FA market is.

 

That said, in the big picture, I think the statistic is flawed (this is something I thought about recently and contradicts what I've said in the past). The $ are figured only compared to people who have hit the FA market, ie it eliminates the value found in young players still in the pre-FA years. That's real value. Everyone has the same chance to produce through the draft and IFA market. Having to go to the FA market is the result of failure to achieve that value, and thus should count against a team for its signings. The $/WAR stat needs to include all players, IMO. It would be more demonstrative of what a players contributions are really worth.

[v2freak]

Wake is not a good option.

 

Let me rephrase then. With Lackey rejoining and Dice-K done for the season, I don't mind having Wakefield and Aceves share the 5th spot. The commentator on ESPN just noted how Aceves throws around 95 which probably seems like 110MPH after seeing a bunch of knuckleballs. Didn't the Sox have this issue back when Brad Penny showed he couldn't go past 5-6 innings?

 

EDIT 2 minutes later: of course they're not looking too good right now, but it is against the Yankees

[a700hitter]

Let me rephrase then. With Lackey rejoining and Dice-K done for the season, I don't mind having Wakefield and Aceves share the 5th spot. The commentator on ESPN just noted how Aceves throws around 95 which probably seems like 110MPH after seeing a bunch of knuckleballs. Didn't the Sox have this issue back when Brad Penny showed he couldn't go past 5-6 innings?

 

EDIT 2 minutes later: of course they're not looking too good right now, but it is against the Yankees

I remain unconvinced that Wakefield can do an adequate job taking the ball every 5th day.

[v2freak]

He had a gutty performance today. I know 5.1IP and 5ER isn't great but for the #5 pitcher against the Yankees, I don't think it's necessarily terrible either - especially given the way the Sox have been ripping the cover off the ball. And Aceves was dynamite. They may be a decent #5 duo.

 

Besides, at least one of the runs Wakefield gave up was dumb. That "HBP" on Cano was questionable.

[Dojji]

Well, take it with all the salt you can eat, but apparently Andrew Miller is showing significant progress in getting his command down. He's allowed 2 walks in his last 3 starts and is getting the ball on the ground a lot more.

 

A couple little links on the subject for your enjoyment. Apparently they adjusted the way he prepares for a game and it's yielding big dividends.

[Palodios]

I remain unconvinced that Wakefield can do an adequate job taking the ball every 5th day.

 

I keep thinking to myself... has his stuff really changed? Has anything about Wakefield really changed? Over his last 15 years, every season, his ERA has fluttered between 4 and 5 as a starter, and he's given a pile of innings. As long as he's healthy, that's what he's going to give-- its not like he's any less capable of throwing a 70 MPH knuckleball at 44 than he was at 40.

 

He can be as frustrating a pitcher as Dice-k to watch, but as a fifth starter, I think this team can do far worse.

[Will617]

Well, take it with all the salt you can eat, but apparently Andrew Miller is showing significant progress in getting his command down. He's allowed 2 walks in his last 3 starts and is getting the ball on the ground a lot more.

 

A couple little links on the subject for your enjoyment. Apparently they adjusted the way he prepares for a game and it's yielding big dividends.

 

I would not call him up for a lengthy time unless I was sure he was ready. It's always good to see progress, but 3 starts are just 3 starts. Personally, I think the more likely route is a September call-up and probably competition for the last spot of the rotation next year.

[BSN07]

Red Sox lefty Andrew Miller, currently in Triple-A, will remain with Boston and not opt out of his contract, as we inferred earlier today. Now, we know why: Miller will likely soon be called up and added to the rotation, according to Peter Abraham of the Boston Globe.

 

Looks like it's a real possibility.

 

Guy has always had talent. And power LHP tend to develop late. But he still has to produce at the ML level. And I'm actually kind of looking forward to see what he's got. Possibly because I chose him in the 1st Anti- Fantasy league draft :-D But still

[Palodios]

You're not alone in this. It is hard to argue with a 26 year old, 6th overall pick, tough lefty getting another chance in the majors now that he may have fixed his control issues. That being said, I am a little concerned with forcing any unknown entity into the middle of a world series run.

[SoxSport]

With the kind of control he has shown in Pawtucket, Andrew Miller could be another Randy Johnson.

But he has to show that location in the Show.

[seabeachfred]

Andrew Miller is an interesting case. He seems to have found himself, but that was in Pawtucket and we all know the Big is a totally different animal. The guy has good stuff, has apparently found his control and will get a start next week against San Diego. Needless to say if he can handle the promotion and pitch well it would give us another good starter for the back end of our rotation, and we all know we need some help there for the long haul. What I don't want to see is a six man rotation; keep the pitchers working on normal rest if for no other reason than it's in their comfort zone. Also, can John Lackey pitched consistent good ball for us? That would also go a long way to getting us to where we want to end up.

[SoxFanForsyth]

In an interview with WEEI, Peter Gammons said that a couple teams, including the Yankees and the Rays, were in contact with Andrew Miller, offering him twice as much money if he would opt out of the contract with the Red Sox. And look what he did. Stayed with the Sox because they have the best development program in the MLB.

[BornToRun]

In an interview with WEEI' date=' Peter Gammons said that a couple teams, including the Yankees and the Rays, were in contact with Andrew Miller, offering him twice as much money if he would opt out of the contract with the Red Sox. And look what he did. Stayed with the Sox because they have the best development program in the MLB.[/quote']

 

That guy just went up a few notches in my book. Saying "no" to the Yankees automatically earns you your hero stripes.

[VA Sox Fan]

From the Globe:

* Francona announced that Andrew Miller, who reached an agreement on an option clause to remain with the club, will be called up from Pawtucket and start Monday's game against the San Diego Padres. Francona indicated a corresponding roster move would be in the offing, but declined to stay who it might involve.

[BornToRun]

From the Globe:

* Francona announced that Andrew Miller, who reached an agreement on an option clause to remain with the club, will be called up from Pawtucket and start Monday's game against the San Diego Padres. Francona indicated a corresponding roster move would be in the offing, but declined to stay who it might involve.

 

I can't to see how he does. He's only 26 and it wasn't long ago that he was being lauded as a future ace.

[d-money]

Its all about control and location with this guy.He throws in the high 90s.I really hope he puts it together.

[BornToRun]

Its all about control and location with this guy.He throws in the high 90s.I really hope he puts it together.

 

Imagine how amazing it'd be if he came anywhere close to the potential he showed coming out of college.

[ORS]

They got Bard turned around, and he was the consolation prize coming out of UNC that year. Miller was the show pony. If they fixed both, wow, what a steal.

[Cocos Disciples]

That guy just went up a few notches in my book. Saying "no" to the Yankees automatically earns you your hero stripes.

 

Not to mention its tampering by the teams that contacted him.

 

Very excited to see his debut. Hope he can meet his potential.

[a700hitter]

After yesterday's game, Kevin Millwood has pitched 28 innings for the PawSox with a 2.89 ERA and 24 k's. He' 3-0

[Palodios]

From WEEI.com

 

"I root for John Lackey more than I root for myself," said Red Sox starter Josh Beckett after his team's loss.

 

And there you have it. There is the negativity that will keep coming the pitcher's way, just waiting to truly be dumped out once that next poor start comes around. As good as Lackey was Wednesday night, we've seen that such performances won't serve as impenetrable armor. But within the Red Sox clubhouse the script has always been flipped where Lackey is an enormously popular player, particularly among his rotation-mates.

 

The ERA. The flippant answers to postgame questioning. The uneven explanations. In the company of his teammates, those perceived peccadilloes aren't what define the pitcher. Among his teammates, the loyalty, commitment and opportunities to harness night's like his latest at Citizens Bank Park are what make the man.

 

"I think he still has the same stuff. We haven't seen the best of John Lackey," Beckett said. "It's definitely not a deal where we're thinking, 'His stuff just isn't' as good.' There are just a lot of other things. To me, he's my (gosh-darn) hero. What he's doing is the most amazing thing ever."[/Quote]