Starting Shortstop 2011

[Plumpamania]

What we have is fine, anyone wanting to deal the arm and leg for a guy who will want a contract like Carl Crawford (Jose Reyes) is retarded.

[Dojji]

Just throwing wads of toilet paper against the wall here to see what sticks, but is there ANY way they ask Beltre if he can play SS? How bad can a GG 3B'man be at SS??

 

He will probably still have better range than Jeter

 

Beltre has been on enough teams with a terrible situation at shortstop that if this was a real possibility it would have been tried.

[BSN07]

I hope he was being sarcastic in suggesting Beltre for SS. If he was capable, I'm sure Boras would be pimping has a SS and looking for 150M

[SoxFanForsyth]

Kevin Youkilis was a third baseman who turned himself into a first baseman, not the other way around, and he's been playing the position basically every year to some extent.

 

I'll say it again, because it's the truth. Expressing supreme confidence in Jed Lowrie's ability to stay healthy and produce at SS while showing skepticism that Youkilis can do the same at 3B is one of the absolutely biggest logical fallacies i have ever seen. Dear Lord in Heaven.

 

Actually really think about it. Lowrie had wrist problems that held him out in 2009. In 2010, his wrist was completely healed, and the only reason that he missed any playing time at all in 2010 was because of mono.

 

Now if you want to call Lowrie injury prone because he got mono, then we need to stop here because that's just where we disagree. Anyone can get mono. I got mono 5 years ago, and I can promise you that after a year of recovery, it has no ill effects.

 

Youkilis missed 1/2 of the season last year with a torn tendon in his right hand. It was an injury that is extremely rare in the sports industry, so if you ask me, the recovery from that seems much more questionable than the recovery from a 2 year old wrist injury + mono.

 

Not picking sides here, but I think it's pretty valid to have just as much concern about Youk as it is about Lowrie for the upcoming season, purely based on how recent and serious each players injuries were.

 

Having said that - I don't think Youk will have any problems at all transitioning back over to 3rd base. Like you said, he's a 3rd baseman turned to a 1st baseman, not the opposite. He's going back to his natural position, so I have no worries about that.

[Dojji]

I don't either, for the record. I just think that if someone does, based on the combination of his recent injury history (a torn tendon in his throwing hand no less) combined with the fact that he's never faced the rigors of starting fulltime at third, there's room for a little worry. At least during Hot Stove before we've really seen it play out.

[Palodios]

[/b]Now if you want to call Lowrie injury prone because he got mono' date=' then we need to stop here because that's just where we disagree. Anyone can get mono. I got mono 5 years ago, and I can promise you that after a year of recovery, it has no ill effects. [/quote']

 

I think its safe to say one of Lowrie's biggest health problems is that he's prone to being a sexy-beast. Based on how he looked when he came back from mono, I think the "delay" we saw in him returning to the field was probably his return from a very thorough conditioning program.

 

I just want to point out that he went through the same exact thing Ortiz did-- a really bad, nagging wrist injury that ruined a season and a half for him. The difference is Lowrie is ten years younger and just as likely to have a bounce-back season.

[Spudboy]

It does not mean much, but I saw some tape of Lowrie at Ortiz's event and he looked like he had gained some weight. That should be a good sign.

 

He looks stupid with a beard, however!

[Dojji]

I think this might wind up like the Cora-Pedroia thing at second base in '07. Scutaro starts out with claim to the starter's role but Francona watches Lowrie closely and makes sure he gets time at SS, and if it's obvious Lowrie deserves to start at some point, he will.

[Dipre]

[/b]

 

Actually really think about it. Lowrie had wrist problems that held him out in 2009. In 2010, his wrist was completely healed, and the only reason that he missed any playing time at all in 2010 was because of mono.

 

Now if you want to call Lowrie injury prone because he got mono, then we need to stop here because that's just where we disagree. Anyone can get mono. I got mono 5 years ago, and I can promise you that after a year of recovery, it has no ill effects.

 

Youkilis missed 1/2 of the season last year with a torn tendon in his right hand. It was an injury that is extremely rare in the sports industry, so if you ask me, the recovery from that seems much more questionable than the recovery from a 2 year old wrist injury + mono.

 

Not picking sides here, but I think it's pretty valid to have just as much concern about Youk as it is about Lowrie for the upcoming season, purely based on how recent and serious each players injuries were.

 

Having said that - I don't think Youk will have any problems at all transitioning back over to 3rd base. Like you said, he's a 3rd baseman turned to a 1st baseman, not the opposite. He's going back to his natural position, so I have no worries about that.

 

Yeah, because there's no way the kid's development in itself and the fact that he's missing a bone in his wrist is going to affect him at all. None. He's a sure bet to post an .840 OPS next year, because he's been in the league for years and pitchers have never adjusted to him like they've had the chance to do with Youkilis.

 

Youkilis had ligament damage in his throwing hand, an easy-to-come back from injury that never shows any lingering effect, and he's a proven hitter (one of the best) in the league year after year. It's not just a matter of defense, but a matter of offensive expectations.

By the way, do you remember WMP? How'd that wrist surgery turn out for him?

 

So even if his D is below-average, there's nothing to be concerned about because he's a proven offensive producer and not a gamble.

 

Logic people. Let's live in reality. If the Sox don't want to throw the kid into the fire, there has to be a reason for it, and the most likely reason is the fact that they don't believe he can handle the rigors of everyday play right away. Now i know Lowrie is an amazing specimen capable of no wrong, but i'll believe the choice the team makes ten times out of ten rather than "but but but but he's the player i like" analysis. Just sayin'

[Dipre]

I think this might wind up like the Cora-Pedroia thing at second base in '07. Scutaro starts out with claim to the starter's role but Francona watches Lowrie closely and makes sure he gets time at SS' date=' and if it's obvious Lowrie deserves to start at some point, he will.[/quote']

 

Dustin Pedroia was the opening-day second baseman in 2007, and he never once lost the spot to Alex Cora, as he ended up playing 139 games.

[BornToRun]

I miss Alex Cora

[Dojji]

Dustin Pedroia was the opening-day second baseman in 2007' date=' and he never once lost the spot to Alex Cora, as he ended up playing 139 games.[/size']

 

Those of us who watched the season know better. Pedroia won the job by May, but it was an open competition in April and Cora was hitting the cover off the ball. If Pedroia hadn't busted out like he did, Cora would have kept playing.

[Dipre]

I miss Alex Cora

 

You know who i miss? Coco Crisp.

[BornToRun]

Yeah, he never quite panned out like we had hoped but goddamn could the guy play the field. I still remember that hit that he robbed from Wright against the Mets in 2006.

[Dipre]

Those of us who watched the season know better. Pedroia won the job by May' date=' but it was an open competition in April and Cora was hitting the cover off the ball. If Pedroia hadn't busted out like he did, Cora would have kept playing.[/quote']

 

Ok there, buddy. It's not like they were giving Pedroia every possible opportunity to break out and keep the job he was announced as having prior to the season (by the way, noticed how you just changed your argument?).

 

Don't be pissed at me, i just like factual accuracy.

 

By the way, i'm facepalming at the fact that someone thinks that a player missing half-a-year of baseball games while undergoing conditioning is a good thing. Even you can agree that were it not for the injuries, we'd already know exactly what the team has in Lowrie and Scutaro would have been somewhere else, traded for a reliever.

[Dojji]

And you think Lowrie won't be given plenty of chances to take shortstop over? OK buddy, whatever you want to think.

 

If Lowrie and Scutaro both hit up to their proven abilities, Lowrie should end the shortstop controversy in his favor by June. I see no particular reason to be bound by your refusal to believe that.

[Dipre]

And you think Lowrie won't be given plenty of chances to take shortstop over? OK buddy, whatever you want to think.

 

If Lowrie and Scutaro both hit up to their proven abilities, Lowrie should end the shortstop controversy in his favor by June. I see no particular reason to be bound by your refusal to believe that.

 

And this is where your problems with reading comprehension stem from. I never argued that he would be given opportunities to take over the position, as i stated many times in before (and you conveniently ignore) it's not that he doesn't have the potential, it's that you both overstate his actual potential, and refuse to see the importance of sliding him into full-time duty slowly, i argued you using an incorrect comparison (Pedroia was the starting 2B in 2007, this was a given). He can be the starting SS, but he has to earn it, which in this post, you once again go to the "proven abilities" issue, and Lowrie has proved nothing, but will have a chance to prove himself this year. As i have said many times before, reality beckons.

 

Try again, and this time argue what i actually say.

[diony]

I don't see any reasonable argument to have Lowrie over Scutaro at SS. Scutaro should put better numbers batting 9th. Lowrie played for like two months. Yet the discussion deserves 12 pages.

[Keeper]

I don't see any reasonable argument to have Lowrie over Scutaro at SS. Scutaro should put better numbers batting 9th. Lowrie played for like two months. Yet the discussion deserves 12 pages.

 

It's a perfectly reasonable discussion. What makes you think Scutaro would put up better numbers than Lowrie? Lou Marson played more than Carlos Santana on the Guardians. Should Marson start?

[a700hitter]

It does not mean much, but I saw some tape of Lowrie at Ortiz's event and he looked like he had gained some weight. That should be a good sign.

 

He looks stupid with a beard, however!

He was so skinny after the mono that he looked frail. If he fills out a bit and puts some muscle on that frame, he could be a very productive power hitter.

[Dojji]

I've said this before, but I'm firmly convinced Lowrie's upside is in the John Valentin range if he puts everything together. That's danged good.

[BSN07]

I've said this before' date=' but I'm firmly convinced Lowrie's upside is in the John Valentin range if he puts everything together. That's danged good.[/quote']

 

I don't see that as unreasonable.

 

I still think the perfect situation to have is Lowrie playing 3 games at SS, 1 at 2B and 1 at 3B a week. He gets good amount of playing time. Good amount of rest and relieves some of the other IF as well. This season Scutaro can pick up the remaining games at SS and next season, Iglesias can be eased into the role.

 

But to be honest if Pedroia isn't 100% out of the gate(which he should not even be doing anything until he is IMO, I'll explain below) then Lowrie could be the opening day 2B.

 

Pedroia needs to be 100% before doing any kind of baseball activity. However long that takes. If that means missing ST and having to spend the first 2 months of the regular season getting back into physical playing shape at the ST complex and/or in the minors, so be it. I don't care how much he pisses and moans. They can not bring him back too early from this type of injury.

[Dojji]

Well at least if Pedroia had to have health problems we have either Lowrie or Scutaro to sub for him. Both of them are more than suitable backups.

[Dipre]

I don't see that as unreasonable.

 

I still think the perfect situation to have is Lowrie playing 3 games at SS, 1 at 2B and 1 at 3B a week. He gets good amount of playing time. Good amount of rest and relieves some of the other IF as well. This season Scutaro can pick up the remaining games at SS and next season, Iglesias can be eased into the role.

 

But to be honest if Pedroia isn't 100% out of the gate(which he should not even be doing anything until he is IMO, I'll explain below) then Lowrie could be the opening day 2B.

 

Pedroia needs to be 100% before doing any kind of baseball activity. However long that takes. If that means missing ST and having to spend the first 2 months of the regular season getting back into physical playing shape at the ST complex and/or in the minors, so be it. I don't care how much he pisses and moans. They can not bring him back too early from this type of injury.

 

You think Iglesias is the future at Shortstop? Are you Dominican or something?

[diony]

It's a perfectly reasonable discussion. What makes you think Scutaro would put up better numbers than Lowrie? Lou Marson played more than Carlos Santana on the Guardians. Should Marson start?

 

Santana was a Top 5-10 prospect in baseball. The gap between Santana and Marson is HUGE, compared to the small gap between Lowrie and Scutaro. Terrible comparison.

[Dojji]

One of the two of Lowrie and Scutaro has the potential to be the best offensive SS in the American League next year.

[BSN07]

You think Iglesias is the future at Shortstop? Are you Dominican or something?

 

[Dipre]

One of the two of Lowrie and Scutaro has the potential to be the best offensive SS in the American League next year.

 

I'll take Iglesias for $500 with Argenis Diaz and Yamaico Navarro as my safety picks. They're all Latin, and i'm Latin too, so it makes sense! I'd pick Scutaro, but his last name ain't Latin enough.

 

Seriously though:

 

Jed Lowrie: The only player with a career path similar to Jose Valentin without actually playing like Jose Valentin.

 

I'd like to admit to the point that i'm just busting balls right now, but it absolutely baffles me how people think their ideas of personnel management are better than the FO's announced notions.

[Keeper]

Santana was a Top 5-10 prospect in baseball. The gap between Santana and Marson is HUGE' date=' compared to the small gap between Lowrie and Scutaro. Terrible comparison.[/quote']

 

Lowrie was also considered one of the better prospects a few years ago. The talent gap between Lowrie and Scutaro is much bigger than you'd like to believe.

[BSN07]

Lowrie was also considered one of the better prospects a few years ago. The talent gap between Lowrie and Scutaro is potentially much bigger than you'd like to believe.

 

Adjusted