Starting Shortstop 2011

[Dojji]

No, Kalish would not be a necessity. He was not a necessity for Gonzalez, he will not be one for Reyes. Even when trading for franchise talent you're allowed to keep one guy back. THey're already getting one guy back who's ready to make an impact quickly in Iglesias, throw in Che-Hsuan Lin and 2 mid-minors prospects, and you have a package they'll at least talk to you about.

[jacksonianmarch]

They kept back Kalish from the Gonzo deal, yet purged 2 top notch prospects in Kelly and Rizzo and got their 2009 first rounder plus a PTBNL. You think Reyes is gonna come cheap? Iglesias and Kalish are your only bargaining chips above A ball right now and they would be a starting point for Reyes

[Dojji]

Chart time. I can't find it, anyone have more luck?

[Dipre]

I don't understand how you can blow your load all over Reyes (who is injury-prone and massively overrated) and not be excited about Iglesias.

 

He makes consistent contact and is playing in AA at age 20. At the very least he should become a league-average SS with superior defensive skills.

 

Sometimes i just have to scratch my head at some of the things i read on this site.

[BSN07]

I'm not a huge fan of Reyes. especially when they already have Crawford and Ellsbury in the line up. If he wasn't such a health risk, maybe. But I don't see the Sox dropping huge coin on him long term, so I doubt they will trade anyone of note for him.

[Dojji]

Iglesias is a fine defensive SS, but Reyes is a potential elite offensive guy, insanely athletic, switch hitting gap power + speedster. The two do not compare in what they can do for you. As long as Reyes is at least average defensively the package Iglesias offers is not as good as what we could be with Jose on the team -- assuming of course, that Reyes is healthy and has his attitude in line, which is always the biggest risk with the guy.

[Dipre]

Wait, is this the same Jose Reyes that has played 166 games combined the last two seasons, whose defense and offense are vastly overrated, and who would require a massive contract extension and prospect package to acquire?

 

I'll keep Iglesias, who is cost-controlled and has a higher ceiling than people are willing to admit, thank you very much.

 

Just put Lowrie's face on Iglesias' body while thinking about him and you'll see the light about his potential right away.

[BSN07]

Iglesias is a masterful defender that will be cheap. The Sox aren't going to just give that up.

 

Why is it every time the Sox make moves all the sudden everyone(figure of speech, not literally everyone) turns into Mr. Yankee and expects an All Star caliber, 15M+ player at every position? The Sox don't need Reyes. They have a great offense already. He isn't going to make it that much better to justify moving the amount talent and big chunks of $ it would take.

[Palodios]

I'll keep Iglesias, who is cost-controlled and has a higher ceiling than people are willing to admit, thank you very much.

 

Just put Lowrie's face on Iglesias' body while thinking about him and you'll see the light about his potential right away.

 

I don't understand how you are so down on Lowrie, who has put up .800+ OPS at pretty much every level he's played in, and can be so much behind Iglesias, who has shown very little offense abilities whatsoever.

[Dojji]

Iglesias a Hispanic from the Carribean, Lowrie is an American college player. Consider the source.

[Dipre]

I don't understand how you are so down on Lowrie' date=' who has put up .800+ OPS at pretty much every level he's played in, and can be so much behind Iglesias, who has shown very little offense abilities whatsoever.[/quote']

 

Two issues: Health and Small sample sizes. Not to mention i'm not criticizing Lowrie but a possible acquisition of Jose Reyes, reading comprehension is essential. I see him as the best sub in the league, capable of playing every position in the infield and providing above-average offense, which is absolutely golden. Remember 2010? That shows the importance of having a strong bench.

 

@ Doiji: You're full of s*** pulling out the race card. Jose Reyes is Dominican, and i'm against acquiring him. Do you even read the crap you post before you post it?

 

Or maybe when you were thrashing Bucholz and Kilo and i were the only two people still high on him i discovered some deep-seated Dominican roots nobody knew about?

[bsox0407]

I am a big fan of Iglesias because i have the Spicy Dominican Gene in My Irish Blood.

 

Lowrie is not gonna be a everyday starter, he is always hurt. Wrist, Mono what is next he has his period.

[a700hitter]

@ Doiji: You're full of s*** pulling out the race card. Jose Reyes is Dominican, and i'm against acquiring him. Do you even read the crap you post before you post it?

 

I don't think it would be racist if as a fan you rooted for Dominican players. You are not a GM who is making employment decisions based on ethnic background or race. That would be illegal racism. Some people think it is okay for west coast teams to seek to acquire Japanese players to appeal to a faction of their fan base. I don't agree with that and view it as racism.

[Palodios]

Two issues: Health and Small sample sizes. Not to mention i'm not criticizing Lowrie but a possible acquisition of Jose Reyes, reading comprehension is essential. I see him as the best sub in the league, capable of playing every position in the infield and providing above-average offense, which is absolutely golden. Remember 2010? That shows the importance of having a strong bench.

 

Reading comprehension is crucial? We'll get along much better without comments like these in the future. I'm just surprised you're so high on Iggy without any results -- so far he's exactly as advertised, a weak hitting defensive genius.

[Spudboy]

I don't understand how you can blow your load all over Reyes (who is injury-prone and massively overrated) and not be excited about Iglesias.

 

He makes consistent contact and is playing in AA at age 20. At the very least he should become a league-average SS with superior defensive skills.

 

Sometimes i just have to scratch my head at some of the things i read on this site.

 

It's my guess that some of the "ideas" voiced on talksox that prompt one to scratch his head are attributable to not getting laid enough. I laughed when Gom said it but I now think there may be something to it.

 

Maybe everyone is bored now that the Sox have made several significant moves. But for the love of Christ, why is Iglesias now expendable? He had a pretty good 1st full year in American pro ball. Take away his wrist/hand injury and there is absolutely nothing to indicate that he will never be at least a league average offensive shortstop.

 

And there are some indications that he will be more than that. He has a quik bat and is very coachable. He's already making better contact. Plus, he's had to try to learn a new language (kind of important when it comes to coaching a player) and he has had to become adjusted to a completly new way of life and culture.

 

He may not be ready for 2012, but what's the f***ing rush?

 

And as Dipre said, what is the facination with a shortstop that can't stay healthy and has a big contract?

 

The Sox are on the right track (finaly) at shortstop. No nead to f***-up a good plan.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I am literally shocked to see that the debate over whether or not to attempt to acquire Reyes is still going on.

 

Is this serious, or is this some kind of hazing technique because I'm new??

 

We've got a SS which scouts have compared the glovework to Ozzie Smith (maybe you've heard of him?), and people on here want to forgo that potential, and get an injury prone SS for buckets of money. That makes absolutely zero sense.

 

We've got Lowrie and Iglesias waiting in the wings, both of which (IMO) have the potential to be starting SS in the MLB, Iglesias of which will be the future SS of the Sox, both getting paid under $1mm combined, and we want to go get Reyes.

 

I just don't know what to say to people who support that idea. Apparently the financial side of baseball is irrelevant to some people.

[BSN07]

I am literally shocked to see that the debate over whether or not to attempt to acquire Reyes is still going on.

 

Is this serious, or is this some kind of hazing technique because I'm new??

 

We've got a SS which scouts have compared the glovework to Ozzie Smith (maybe you've heard of him?), and people on here want to forgo that potential, and get an injury prone SS for buckets of money. That makes absolutely zero sense.

 

We've got Lowrie and Iglesias waiting in the wings, both of which (IMO) have the potential to be starting SS in the MLB, Iglesias of which will be the future SS of the Sox, both getting paid under $1mm combined, and we want to go get Reyes.

 

I just don't know what to say to people who support that idea. Apparently the financial side of baseball is irrelevant to some people.

 

It's that time of year. The Sox have made their moves and now the wait is on for Pitchers and Catchers to report. It happens every year here. Boredom stirs up some craziness around here

 

It's one of the reason's I suggested maybe making the 2011 Red Sox offensive predictions thread. But it may be too early to stir that hornet's nest. Too much time to debate without actually seeing any new results. Better hold off and try and stretch it out LOL

[Palodios]

In all fairness, it has just been Dojji and yankee fans talking about Reyes.

[SoxSport]

Barring any injuries, Lowrie may well be the starting SS next year. His projections are significantly higher than Scutaro's. Down the road, they will have some decision-making with Iglesias. Lowrie fits in there somewhere--backing up 3B and 2B as well. But the guy that makes the money (Scutaro) has the advantage. Reyes? Don't see him (or Beltran) in Boston.

 

Kalish is another interesting situation. Bill James projects him as a 20/20 guy next year with the Red Sox. Maybe that was before the Crawford signing. Kalish is clearly the right fielder in waiting after Drew. Or they might eventually not re-sign Ellsbury. We'll just have to see how all this plays out. You hate to see Kalish in AAA next year. My guess is he plays a lot in Boston, with Drew and Ellsbury being injury prone.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Theo seems to think that Kalish would do well with 1 more year of grooming down in Pawtucket this year. I can't argue against that really. Get one more year under his belt playing everyday and then come up and make a smoother transition than only playing 60 games this year.

 

I think Cam is the guy who will see the biggest bulk of PT with Ells and Drew's injuries, although I think Ells will play around 145 games next year. The media blew him up beyond belief last year. I've never broken a rib, but I've bruised a couple before, and when I bruised mine, it hurt to breath for weeks, much less swing or run or dive or throw. And he broke his. And then played with 2 of them broken.

 

The slate will be wiped clean of last year between Ells and the FO, no more LF for Ells, no more injuries, no more problems.

 

As far as not re-signing him next year, that would be ridiculous. He's arbitration eligible, and if we were going to get rid of him, we would trade him, not just not resign him. But we'll keep him around for at least the next 3 years until he hits FA. By then, I would assume that one of Ryan Westmoreland, Brandon Jacobs, or Bryce Brentz will be ready. (Keep an eye on Jacobs, that guy is going to be an absolute stud)

[Dojji]

I don't see what the big deal is about acquiring Reyes. He's explosive and exciting, gets on base fairly well on a career, and is a dominant player when he's on the field. He's had some health issues recently but when he's in there he's amazing, and he's still a decent bet to play 130 games a year, and the backup we have for when he isn't playing is at least worthy.

 

Sure we could do fine without him, prolly. We could also do even better with him. His OPS numbers are already good even before you add in that he'd be yet another player with flat out ridiculous speed. Acquiring him would represent a determination to be the absolute best that you couldn't help but admire.

 

As for known flaws like health and attitude, that'd be the only reason a guy like that would even be available at all, and we certainly have options if the gamble backfires, so the risk is not that high. When healthy the guy is a 5.5-6.0 WAR player, replacing a player who's about 0-2 WAR. The reward there should be obvious. I just think it's an idea worth pursuing.

[Palodios]

Dojji-- if we're going to talk about a SS option that will be amazing IF he stays healthy, we've already got Lowrie. Reye's career numbers don't look like an improvement, with the exception of steals, but I think having a third massive base-stealing threat will make hitting them around the slow power hitters a bit of a challenge.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I don't see what the big deal is about acquiring Reyes. He's explosive and exciting, gets on base fairly well on a career, and is a dominant player when he's on the field. He's had some health issues recently but when he's in there he's amazing, and he's still a decent bet to play 130 games a year, and the backup we have for when he isn't playing is at least worthy.

 

Sure we could do fine without him, prolly. We could also do even better with him. His OPS numbers are already good even before you add in that he'd be yet another player with flat out ridiculous speed. Acquiring him would represent a determination to be the absolute best that you couldn't help but admire.

 

As for known flaws like health and attitude, that'd be the only reason a guy like that would even be available at all, and we certainly have options if the gamble backfires, so the risk is not that high. When healthy the guy is a 5.5-6.0 WAR player, replacing a player who's about 0-2 WAR. The reward there should be obvious. I just think it's an idea worth pursuing.

 

The idea was that the Sox could sign him for 6/125mm. So we are allocating $20mm on a shortstop, a position which we have young, talented depth. I would much rather allocate that $20mm on someone like Chris Carpenter once DiceK leaves, or on a solid DH/OF that we could use with more versatility.

 

Just one man's opinion, though!

[Spudboy]

Maybe Nava could be converted to SS?

[Dipre]

Reading comprehension is crucial? We'll get along much better without comments like these in the future. I'm just surprised you're so high on Iggy without any results -- so far he's exactly as advertised' date=' a weak hitting defensive genius.[/quote']

 

We'd also be better off if you stopped putting words in my mouth. How about that?

Reading comprehension is essential, because with it you would have realized i wasn't dissing Lowrie and not made the comment at all. Capisce?

 

@ Doiji: Simply Lol. Didn't i like Dominican players? That's why you should think before you post.

 

@a700: Rooting for Dominican players is not the point, it's the ignorant and baiting context in which it was said, and a blatant lie. If i was so high on Dominican players, i'd be the one pimping that massive lump of suckitude called Yamaico Navarro instead of Doiji. It's a ******** accusation.

 

@ Spudboy: Damn straight good sir!

[a700hitter]

We'd also be better off if you stopped putting words in my mouth. How about that?

Reading comprehension is essential, because with it you would have realized i wasn't dissing Lowrie and not made the comment at all. Capisce?

 

@ Doiji: Simply Lol. Didn't i like Dominican players? That's why you should think before you post.

 

@a700: Rooting for Dominican players is not the point, it's the ignorant and baiting context in which it was said, and a blatant lie. If i was so high on Dominican players, i'd be the one pimping that massive lump of suckitude called Yamaico Navarro instead of Doiji. It's a ******** accusation.

 

@ Spudboy: Damn straight good sir!

You are 100% right. What Doji said was really messed up.

[SCM33]

We've got a SS which scouts have compared the glovework to Ozzie Smith (maybe you've heard of him?)' date=' and people on here want to forgo that potential, and get an injury prone SS for buckets of money. That makes absolutely zero sense. [/quote']

 

Maybe you have heard of this guy:

 

http://vlog.xuite.net/play/WmZZQ0hILTczMjc4LmZsdg==

 

You have to hit at least a little, or your career will end up much like his.

[Palodios]

Reading comprehension is essential, because with it you would have realized i wasn't dissing Lowrie and not made the comment at all. Capisce?

 

You don't believe he's going to hit anywhere near his career marks. I think that can be considered, as I said, "being down on Lowrie".

[Dipre]

You don't believe he's going to hit anywhere near his career marks. I think that can be considered' date=' as I said, "being down on Lowrie".[/quote']

 

Boy, you really enjoy this "putting words in my mouth thing".

 

I've repeated concerns about his health and his ability to hit for power being overblown (and it has been) acknowledged his very above-average ability to get on base and expressed his value in a multi-positional bench role, referring to him as the "best sub in the league".

 

The argument is better if you argue what i actually said.

[Palodios]

Go back and read the Lowrie thread. Time and time again you show skepticism of him hitting .800+ OPS. He's hit .800+ at every level. Bill James predicts him at .820 in 2010 I believe. I was asking a simple question-- how is it that you're so high on a guy like Iggy, who has yet to show much for offense?