Starting Shortstop 2011

[Dipre]

Go back and read the Lowrie thread. Time and time again you show skepticism of him hitting .800+ OPS. He's hit .800+ at every level. Bill James predicts him at .820 in 2010 I believe. I was asking a simple question-- how is it that you're so high on a guy like Iggy' date=' who has yet to show much for offense?[/quote']

 

.800+ doesn't mean .810 or .815. We're talking mid-to-upper .800's. Also, funny you bring up the Bill James projections, seeing as we've mentioned several times how SSS can mess with overall projections and expectations. He has the patience to have a .370 OBP, but not the power to SLG over .450, which brings us, in a perfect scenario, (focus on the perfect scenario part, and the skepticism about his health, which are valid, no matter how many times people stomp the floor and tell themselves they're not) to an OPS around .820. That's nowhere near last year's .907 or the .850 expectancy that some around here have.

 

He had an XBH every 8.56 AB's last year. During his time in the minors, he had an XBH every 12.30 AB's. I'm sorry, but logically, that screams fluke to me, unless he's juicing, which i don't think he is.

 

By the way, this brings us back to the whole reading comprehension thing.

[Palodios]

By the way, this brings us back to the whole reading comprehension thing.

 

I asked you a question twice and you ignored it in order to insult me. Can you do me a favor and block me? I really don't want you reading my posts and insulting me from now on.

[Dipre]

Whatever man, grow a pair. This is the internet. I should be more offended by your reluctance to stop putting words in my mouth than by me telling you that you should the things i say into proper context, which is valid.

 

You know what's an insult? "Stop hanging from Jed Lowrie's nuts". That's an insult.

[Palodios]

Its a rough world out there Dipre. I have my own s*** to deal with, and arguing on a silly message board isn't something I'm interested in. I'll enjoy my experience here much more without you, so do us both the favor.

[Dipre]

Disagree, it's a pretty simple and excellent world filled with booze, women with big butts and baseball.

 

Unfortunately, the "ignore" function is something that's not worth the time over the internet, because, well, it's the internet.

 

On a side note: To answer your question, multiple factors:

 

1) The Red Sox organization views Iglesias as the SS of the future, and Lowrie as a backup, now since neither you nor i (nor Doiji and his love for Yamaico Navarro) are talent evaluators, that should aco**** for a lot.

 

2) Questions about health, they see him as a backup (straight from the horse's mouth) and everyone who has a boner for him ignores it because it doesn't back up the idea that he may just be on his way to being the best SS in the AL (Doiji said this, not you).

 

3) Iglesias is a 20 year-old in AA, he has an absolutely amazing contact rate, and scouts rave about his glove and ability to spray line drives. He's also faster than either Scutaro or Lowrie. What's not to like?

 

And considering that, again, initially this was not even about Lowrie but about why Jose Reyes, dominican shortstop for the New York Mets shouldn't be brought to the Red Sox, and i made a joke about how Doiji has a boner for Lowrie, and you turned it into a "Dipre hates Lowrie" s***-fest, i believe that if anyone should be using the new-and-improved super powerful ignore feature, it should be you. I may use it on Doiji though, for pulling the race card on me, that pissed me off, even through the internet.

[Palodios]

I would absolutely love to use an all-powerful ignore feature. But as it is right now, if I ignore you, you'll still see my posts, and possibly reply to them. I don't know why you keep going on and on about this, I've been done with this argument since about 5 posts ago.

[a700hitter]

Wow! After reading this thread, it made me realize how silly ORS acts when he argues with me.

 

:lol::lol:

 

ORS, don't go getting all bent out of shape. We're both pretty silly when we go after each other. I gave you a vote for smartest poster, so be assured that I am just joking.

[Dipre]

Wow! After reading this thread, it made me realize how silly ORS acts when he argues with me.

 

:lol::lol:

 

ORS, don't go getting all bent out of shape. We're both pretty silly when we go after each other. I gave you a vote for smartest poster, so be assured that I am just joking.

 

By that, do you mean when people put words in my mouth, call me a racist and then feel "offended" when i call them out.

[Plumpamania]

I like white baseball players (enter racism card here).

[example1]

If Iglesias progresses the way the Sox expect him to then Lowrie is most valuable as a trade piece, probably at the deadline in 2012. For the next year and a half the Sox will hope that he can live up to some hybrid of his AA and AAA numbers. I can't find a simple way to do the math, but here's his numbers at these two high levels of competition:

 

AAA-- .268/.350/.458/.808 (511 PA)

AA-- .301/.412/.506/.918 (413 PA)

 

Of course the AAA should be weighed more, both because it is a larger portion of the sample and because it is a higher level.

 

I think realistically Lowrie could be a .285/.375/.465/.840 shortstop if he gets comfortable. I don't think he would be the best shortstop in the league, but I wouldn't be surprised if he were one of the best shortstops for a year or two when all is said and done in his career. That might not be with the Sox though.

 

In any case, I'm excited to see what he can do next year and think that he will start.

[Dojji]

If he's got an .840 OPS, I'd like you to find a better offensive shortstop than that in the American League presently. They just aren't there. For some reason all the good offensive SS's are in the National League -- Hanley, Reyes, Rollins, Tulo, etc. I'm inclined to blame the lack of a DH requiring them to squeeze more offense into up the middle positions.

 

What that means IMHO is that if you do go to Lowrie as your SS you can seize an advantage over most of the other contenders in the AL, especially now that Jeter looks to be in real decline. Most of them have gone to the defensive model or have young guys who aren't perfect for prime time yet. Getting 800+ OPS out of the SS position is disproportionately valuable offensively on that basis.

[Palodios]

Best OPS of a full-time shortstop in the AL in 2010? Alexei Ramirez at .744. Yeah, its that weak a field.

[Dojji]

Precisely. WHen I say Jed Lowrie has the ability to be the best offensive SS in the AL, I'm not exactly saying a ton. All that would need to happen is for Jed to play 130 games, get a .750-.775 OPS and someone else not break out. That's really not that tall an order.

[a700hitter]

Let me see if I have this straight. Doji threw a bomb into the middle of the room by suggesting that it would be a good move for the Sox to get Jose Reyes. Neither Palodios or Dipre think the Sox should acquire Reyes, but yet they have been engaged in a protracted viscious battle. This is where I get lost. Did I miss something?

 

I think Spud is right. People need to get laid more.

[Palodios]

Wait what? Re-read those posts. It hasn't been a battle, it has been Dipre calling me names, and me simply not wanting to deal with it.

[yeszir]

Back on topic please

[EXman369]

I dont see the sox making any moves this season at shortstop, we have Scutaro and Lowrie i see them splitting time and Lowrie getting other spot starts in the IF as well.

 

Scutaro put up the exact year that i believe sox fans and the FO expected hit a little above his career average and he didnt make to many mistakes and hit for a solid average.

 

As for Lowrie i see the sox giving him 2-3 starts a week around the infield and if he plays well by mid season taking the starting job from Scutaro

[Dojji]

Scutaro had exactly the year I expected him to have, but my expectations of Scutaro were so low that I'm not sure I'd call that a good thing. We need more than that from our SS going forward, especially since we have the chance to get it.

[EXman369]

I agree with that i just dont think that Jed will be ready for the starting job right away, he has only had 239 AB the last 2 years not sure if his body can handle the 162 game marathon that the baseball season is.

 

As of now the Red sox dont have the best option at shortstop but we have the league average at short stop with a wild card sitting on the bench. I would say that were happy with the position for 2011 and hope that Lowrie breaks out or atleast shows some consistency

[Dojji]

We're already going to have one position, catcher, that we know is going to be a source of trouble on both ends of the ball. We really could use to solidify the SS position and not have to settle for average there, so that we can absorb the damage our catchers might do to us.

[a700hitter]

We're already going to have one position' date=' catcher, that we know is going to be a source of trouble on both ends of the ball. We really could use to solidify the SS position and not have to settle for average there, so that we can absorb the damage our catchers might do to us.[/quote']

Between Scutaro and Lowrie we will be okay at SS-- not great but not terrible- somewhat above average. If Lowrie stays strong and healthy, we could be well-above average. If they want to upgrade a position, it should be catcher where there will surely be a problem as you have noted.

[EXman369]

I mean were average or little above average at SS and below average at catcher no arguing that. Were top three in the league at 1B and 2B and atleast above average with youk at 3B

[bsox0407]

I mean were average or little above average at SS and below average at catcher no arguing that. Were top three in the league at 1B and 2B and atleast above average with youk at 3B

 

We are above avg in every position except CF, SS, and C. Drew is above Avg in my Opinion. That could be argued along with Ellsbury being argued.

[yeszir]

Starting shortstop. Discuss.

 

Very easy for me to delete posts, by the way.

[EXman369]

Im pretty sure the last 5 or so posts are just delving off topic a little about the rest of the positions

[yeszir]

Im pretty sure the last 5 or so posts are just delving off topic a little about the rest of the positions

 

I was referring to the stupid fight that I deleted.

[Spudboy]

I mean were average or little above average at SS and below average at catcher no arguing that. Were top three in the league at 1B and 2B and atleast above average with youk at 3B

 

Lol.

 

"at least above average at 3B".

 

:lol::lol:

[Dojji]

I don't get what's funny about that. Depending on how Youks plays out defensively, if he's average or bad his bat makes up for it but we're still only about above average on the whole, but if he's solid, we're elite at third. Thus, "at least above average."

 

Why I want to see them try Lowrie, is because I feel that Lowrie and only Lowrie among our current batch of shortstop options has a chance to make us better than NYY at short. We haven't had that in a long time and it would be nice to sieze it with both hands now that we might.

[Palodios]

Lol.

 

"at least above average at 3B".

 

:lol::lol:

 

I heard an interview with Youkilis this offseason-- he was talking about how he is naturally a third-baseman, and only played 1st, because that's where they wanted him. He's been just a tad above average there for his career, but with a full offseason to get ready for it, and more opportunities, he'll be just fine. If Iglesias is added to the infield of Pedroia/Agon, it will hide any inabilities Youk has.

[EXman369]

Yeah he defintally will be better then average i just dont know if he will be top 3 in the postion in the leauge like pedroia and gonzo are, with his work ethic and the way he plays the game though i can defintally envision it happening thats why i said atleast above avergae that gives us a lot of space to work with