Moss to Vikings?

[a700hitter]

This is a great move by the Vikes. There's no disputing that. This gives Favre a bunch of weapons. As for the Pats, if they don't flip this third round pick in a package for Vincent Jackson, I don't know how you can reach any conclusion other than that they are in rebuilding mode.

[Emmz]

Moss jobbed them by forcing their hand for not extending his contract. Same as Mankins. I'm not mad at either of them. Hold outs are lame' date=' but the ineptness of the players union that can get guaranteed contracts is at fault here.[/quote']

 

Again, sugarcoat it all you want, the Pats are the ones who got jobbed. They got a third round pick for a guy who's their best threat at WR. Wes Welker's career best is 8 TDs, compared to Moss, who holds the NFL record for TDs in a season for a receiver. Welker excels at the short, 10 yard catches. How does he make those catches when defenders don't have to account for the deep threat that is Randy Moss? Give me a solution to their problem, and I'll admit that they didn't get completely robbed in this deal.

[a700hitter]

Again' date=' sugarcoat it all you want, the Pats are the ones who got jobbed. They got a third round pick for a guy who's their best thread at WR. Wes Welker's career best is 8 TDs, compared to Moss, who holds the NFL record for TDs in a season for a receiver. Welker excels at the short, 10 yard catches. How does he make those catches when defenders don't have to account for the deep threat that is Randy Moss? Give me a solution to their problem, and I'll admit that they didn't get completely robbed in this deal.[/quote']Pat's fans putting a positive spin on this is just ridiculous. When you lose a star, there is nothing positive about that. When we traded Manny in 2008, I wasn't happy. He had to go, but losing a guy like that never helps your team. It's the same with Moss.

[Emmz]

I agree that this is similar to what's happened with Manny, but it's just ridiculous how delusional some of the people here are. They lost a guy who gave them nearly 1300 yards, and led the league in TD receptions last season. There's nothing to be happy about, just like there was nothing happy about Ramirez leaving. Losing a headcase doesn't make your team win games.

[YanksHater213]

Jets cornerback Darrelle Revis says that then-Patriots wide receiver Randy Moss gave up during their Week 2 matchup.

 

"In the second half, you could tell he was putting his foot on the brakes," Revis said. "I mean, everybody knows that's Randy. Sometimes he plays 100 percent, sometimes he doesn't."

 

Yup, this move sucked. Lets keep our stud WR who will only put forth his best effort when he knows he's got a chance of the ball coming his way. I'd rather have a young Tate trying to prove something than a Moss who just doesn't give a f*** because he doesn't feel wanted. Cry me a f***ing river, Randy. I hope you catch plenty of TDs from Favre.

 

With all this s*** leaking out, good riddance definitely comes to mind.

[TheKilo]

Were at the point where we take Darelle Revis's word as gospel here? You know who else took the foot of the brakes in that game? Darelle Revis.

 

I can't believe the rationalization some Pats fans have here. If you honestly think the Pats are a better team today than they were Monday night, you're delusional. I can see the "making the best of a bad situation" argument but if that's the case you concede Belichick isn't the personnel master he's cracked up to be.

[YanksHater213]

I think it makes us better because it opens up our offense. We can do so much more now because we don't have to deal with Moss. The unit is greater than anything one person can do. Moss didn't want to be part of the unit, he wanted to "get his" so to speak. It's not worth having a guy like that on the squad.

[SCM33]

What did you expect Brady to do when Randy mouthed off? Throw him under the bus?

 

They probably weren't going to win the super bowl anyway. This changes nothing. If anything the "life without Randy Moss" experiment got a 12 week head start.

 

Are the Vikings better? yeah they are....but it doesnt change the fact that the Moss issue in NE was only going to get worse before it got better.

 

In response to what just about everyone else is saying. Remember I am not saying Moss was a s***** player.

 

Remember, I made the above post last night.

 

A700, I am putting a positive spin on it because this is the best thing that could of happened. Things were going to get worse before they get better.

 

The Patriots got jobbed? Are you f***ing serious? THEY HAD TO GET RID OF HIM. Had they not traded him, they would have probably released him. If anything, the Vikings gave up too much. Moss would not of lasted the season here. He opened up his mouth after week 1. The first friggin game he was already bitching.

 

The Patriots are not a better team without him, but again things would of gotten worse before they got better. All they did was fast forward 13 weeks. Moss wasnt coming back anyway and his bitching had already started.

 

See ya later Moss, good riddance.

[yankees228]

Were at the point where we take Darelle Revis's word as gospel here? You know who else took the foot of the brakes in that game? Darelle Revis.

 

I can't believe the rationalization some Pats fans have here. If you honestly think the Pats are a better team today than they were Monday night, you're delusional. I can see the "making the best of a bad situation" argument but if that's the case you concede Belichick isn't the personnel master he's cracked up to be.

 

Best part about this: Revis didn't play in the second half.

[boston22407]

Brady without moss> Brett with moss

[mvp 78]

Again' date=' sugarcoat it all you want, the Pats are the ones who got jobbed. They got a third round pick for a guy who's their best threat at WR. Wes Welker's career best is 8 TDs, compared to Moss, who holds the NFL record for TDs in a season for a receiver. Welker excels at the short, 10 yard catches. How does he make those catches when defenders don't have to account for the deep threat that is Randy Moss? Give me a solution to their problem, and I'll admit that they didn't get completely robbed in this deal.[/quote']

 

How was I sugarcoating anything? Moss forced them to either sign him long term or move him. It's a tough call either way. I just think that holding out and forcing trades is a sucky thing about football.

 

Contracts should be guaranteed and teams shouldn't be able to franchise a player. The union should grow a set in the offseason.

[TheKilo]

I think it makes us better because it opens up our offense. We can do so much more now because we don't have to deal with Moss. The unit is greater than anything one person can do. Moss didn't want to be part of the unit' date=' he wanted to "get his" so to speak. It's not worth having a guy like that on the squad.[/quote']

 

You just can't be serious when you say your offense gets better when you lose a guy like Moss. You just can't. They guy went for 1,000+ and had 13 TDs last year. You know why welker and the TEs look so good this year? It might have to do with Moss taking coverage over the top. You honestly think the opposing defenses won't think twice about doubling Welker or Hernandez?

[TheKilo]

Best part about this: Revis didn't play in the second half.

 

I know, that was my point. revis cant really say crap about Moss in that game because he took himself out. Yet now, his word is gold?

[TheKilo]

In response to what just about everyone else is saying. Remember I am not saying Moss was a s***** player.

 

Remember, I made the above post last night.

 

A700, I am putting a positive spin on it because this is the best thing that could of happened. Things were going to get worse before they get better.

 

The Patriots got jobbed? Are you f***ing serious? THEY HAD TO GET RID OF HIM. Had they not traded him, they would have probably released him. If anything, the Vikings gave up too much. Moss would not of lasted the season here. He opened up his mouth after week 1. The first friggin game he was already bitching.

 

The Patriots are not a better team without him, but again things would of gotten worse before they got better. All they did was fast forward 13 weeks. Moss wasnt coming back anyway and his bitching had already started.

 

See ya later Moss, good riddance.

 

Weren't you one of the posters ripping the FO for trading Manny in 2008?

[italstallianion]

How was I sugarcoating anything? Moss forced them to either sign him long term or move him. It's a tough call either way. I just think that holding out and forcing trades is a sucky thing about football.

 

Contracts should be guaranteed and teams shouldn't be able to franchise a player. The union should grow a set in the offseason.

 

 

Holding out for more money is pretty despicable as well.

[Palodios]

Is this post serious? Randy Moss made the defense play poorly?

 

Yeah, it is serious. When you're the Patriot defense, and suddenly, your team is scoring 40 points per game, you stop mattering. The only time anyone even mentions the defense the Patriot offense scores less than the opposing offense. The complete philosophy of the team shifted to simply crushing the other team on offense, and less emphasis was put on the defense from a coaching standpoint. Remember that game last year (I think it was against the Colts) where the Patriots had a 4 and short in their own territory in the fourth quarter and BB decided to give it to Tom instead of punting it? That's exactly what I'm talking about.

[TheKilo]

Yeah' date=' it is serious. When you're the Patriot defense, and suddenly, your team is scoring 40 points per game, you stop mattering. The only time anyone even mentions the defense the Patriot offense scores less than the opposing offense. The complete philosophy of the team shifted to simply crushing the other team on offense, and less emphasis was put on the defense from a coaching standpoint. Remember that game last year (I think it was against the Colts) where the Patriots had a 4 and short in their own territory in the fourth quarter and BB decided to give it to Tom instead of punting it? That's exactly what I'm talking about.[/quote']

 

Holy crap. I mean, seriously, holy crap. I cannot for one second believe you actually think this is the truth.

[Palodios]

Holy crap. I mean' date=' seriously, holy crap. I cannot for one second believe you actually think this is the truth.[/quote']

 

What part of it isn't true? The way this team wins IS by crushing the other team with the offense. BB trusts the offense so much more than the defense. Despite drafting defensive players very high for the last few years, it hasn't gotten anywhere. This team's running game disappeared. The philosophy of this team has changed significantly since Moss got here, and quite frankly, it hasn't worked since their last superbowl loss.

[Emmz]

That theory is seriously stretching it, you're obviously entitled to believe it, but I think some skepticism is warranted, to say the least.

[Palodios]

Well, I know I have a bad habit of exaggerating a good point and making it seem questionable. But is it so hard to believe that having a record breaking passing game for several years has taken a little too much pressure off the defense and running game?

[boston22407]

one thing if i was a min fan i would be worried that brett taking a shot on a deep throw to moss.the o-line for min sucks so far this year

[a700hitter]

one thing if i was a min fan i would be worried that brett taking a shot on a deep throw to moss.the o-line for min sucks so far this year

Favre is going to chuck deep anyway. He will help him that he has a receiver who can get down field fast and jump.

[Dojji]

Meh, I think it was time to get back to Patriots football anyway. Not that this won't hurt the team, because it will, but the high-octane halcyon days of offense and Brady-to-Moss were clearly on the way out anyway with the only question being when and how the Patriots made the adjustment. They chose to do so proactively and give themselves time to piece together what the post-Moss Patriots will look like while there's still a postseason to play for. If their reasoning is that Moss was likely to be a problem more than a solution to the rest of their season and was gone at the end anyway, it's a reasonable call to make.

 

For most of the best years of the Patriots' run, they were a team that was D first, O second, playing the short game, running the football, possessing the football and moving the chains. That's not a Moss team, if you have Moss, you're trying to make explosive offensive plays leading to quick possessions and more O than D. Sooner or later that conflict would have blown up, now at least we have time to figure out what we're going to do for the rest of the season and make our bid for the playoffs and position for next year based on a realistic assessment of what we're likely to have.

 

 

The one way in which Paladios is most right is that sometimes it does pay to play to your strengths rather than trying to be good at everything. If the Law Firm can hold up his end of the bargain in the running game, we might be surprised to find ourselves looking at a team that very closely resembles the heyday 2002-2003 Patriots. Meaning that our antacid intake picks up a tick but at the end of the day the Patriots don't wind up playing in the playoffs without knowing what they are. We'll miss Moss, but Moss was not a Patriot in the fundamental sense, he just didn't mesh very well with what BB made his bread and butter by getting players to do and I honestly think that starting with the Superbowl upset we've been paying for being caught with one foot on ship and one foot on shore.

[SCM33]

Weren't you one of the posters ripping the FO for trading Manny in 2008?

 

Maybe, what does that have to do with supporting the teams decision to get rid of Moss?

[SCM33]

The one way in which Paladios is most right is that sometimes it does pay to play to your strengths rather than trying to be good at everything. If the Law Firm can hold up his end of the bargain in the running game' date=' we might be surprised to find ourselves looking at a team that very closely resembles the heyday 2002-2003 Patriots. Meaning that our antacid intake picks up a tick but at the end of the day the Patriots don't wind up playing in the playoffs without knowing what they are. We'll miss Moss, but Moss was not a Patriot in the fundamental sense, he just didn't mesh very well with what BB made his bread and butter by getting players to do and I honestly think that starting with the Superbowl upset we've been paying for being caught with one foot on ship and one foot on shore.[/quote']

 

I think Palodios has it a little confused. Its not that the Patriots defense didn't matter. Its that they were on the field too long. When it only takes 2 minutes to score on offense and your defense is continually out there for stretches of 6,7,8 minutes eventually they will be gassed and eventually they will break.

 

Moss was a nice toy but the Patriots got bored with the toy. They stopped finding uses for it. Instead they threw up their hands and just chucked up incomplete passes of 35+ yards into triple coverage just because Moss was on the field and they had to make him happy. Id much rather see a run of 2 yards than an incomplete bomb to Moss setting up 2nd or 3rd and 10.

[Emmz]

You just admitted his use that you've been denying. Triple coverage is what Moss demands. Considering that, with Rice's return mid-season, and Harvin being moved back into the slot receiver role, Shiancoe being one of the top receiving TE, that's a lot of legitimate threats to have to cover. They'll inevitably spread their defenders too thin, and if they go too far into deep pass coverage, there's Peterson still. The Vikings got a top-tier WR for nothing practically.

[Emmz]

Just for clarification, there are still legitimate challenges to the Vikings, like the O-Line, but having this much to work with, the O-Line's suckitude is drastically reduced. Brett Favre is old, and not nearly as able as he was 10 years ago. He needs these weapons, it was the key to his success last season.

[TheKilo]

Maybe' date=' what does that have to do with supporting the teams decision to get rid of Moss?[/quote']

 

You can't see the hypocritical correlation?

[Dojji]

You just admitted his use that you've been denying. Triple coverage is what Moss demands. Considering that' date=' with Rice's return mid-season, and Harvin being moved back into the slot receiver role, Shiancoe being one of the top receiving TE, that's a lot of legitimate threats to have to cover. They'll inevitably spread their defenders too thin, and if they go too far into deep pass coverage, there's Peterson still. The Vikings got a top-tier WR for nothing practically.[/quote']

 

Granted, but Moss also didn't mix well either with the traditional Patriot strategy or BB's mantra. It's nice to know BB can play offense when he has the horses but it's really hard to say they were a better team with Moss than without when they won all their superbowls without Moss.

 

Mossis a great weapon, not denyng that, so don't get me wrong, but if you have to rewrite the entire playbook and rebuild the team culture to properly use him, you have to ask at what point it isn't worth it anymore.

[TheKilo]

What part of it isn't true? The way this team wins IS by crushing the other team with the offense. BB trusts the offense so much more than the defense. Despite drafting defensive players very high for the last few years' date=' it hasn't gotten anywhere. This team's running game disappeared. The philosophy of this team has changed significantly since Moss got here, and quite frankly, it hasn't worked since their last superbowl loss.[/quote']

 

 

You do know that Bill Belichick is the Pats coach, right? Since when does defense not matter when you're coached by a supposed defensive genius and the architect of Parcells' SB winning teams? How many draft picks were used for defense since their last Super Bowl? You cant sit there and tell me a Bill Belichick coached team doesn't care about defense. You just can't. And using that as rationalization for shipping the best skill player the Pats have out of town...is sheer lunacy.

 

Oh, btw, in the years that the Pats last went to the Super Bowl - they went 11-5 with a QB who last started in high school and went 10-6 and lost to the top ranked team in the league in terms of DVOA. Not exactly Lions-esque, and a record most fan bases would kill for. Just speaks to the selfishness of Pats fans.