The Official 2010 Hot Stove Thread.

[italstallianion]

In all fairness, some of those relievers had almost always been bad. There's a difference between Brian Fuentes and Kyle Farnsworth. I mean Fuentes can't fight for f**** sake.

[The Celtbot]

Who do we have under contract already in the bullpen? I know I'm forgetting someone...

 

papelbon

bard

wakefield

doubront possibly?

[Rdsxmbnt]

atchison

[The Celtbot]

atchison

 

I knew I was forgetting someone.

[Dipre]

I don't see how you can dispute what Ital said. Other teams are signing some of the better relievers on the market while the Sox are looking at guys who would be lucky to pitch in the majors next year.

 

Sure, there are still some good options on the market. It would be shame to see this team go into next season with a mediocre pen after making some huge acquisitions that should make them one of the favorites in the AL.

 

Because if you give contracts with absurd amounts of money and years to relievers who aren't that good (with the exception of Downs) then the same people who are bitching about the team not signing these relievers would be bitching about the "waste of money" those contracts are.

 

I'll say it again. 3-year contracts for middle-tier relievers are a recipe for disaster, and i would not have been happy if they gave either Guerrier or Crane a three-year deal, but that's just me.

[WhiskeyBreath]

What reliever would you say has received an absurd amount of money this off season other than Benoit?

[CoachC.]

It's not about the money, it's about the years. These aren't elite closers. Giving three years to 7th inning relievers is questionable. They are up and down game to game and month to month, let alone season to season.

[italstallianion]

My point is, good relievers are progressively going off the market daily while we NEED 1-2 good relievers and we're not signing them, but instead, are signing garbage like Matt Albers and Lenny DiNardo. Sure, we should be more pissed off if we wake up and even more good relievers are off the market, but I hope to God that it doesn't come to that. The point is, and I don't think anyone can deny it, is that we need to f***** do something before all of the good relievers are gone.

[Dipre]

What reliever would you say has received an absurd amount of money this off season other than Benoit?

 

Money and/or years.

 

Jose Contreras: 2 years, 5.50 mill. Really?

 

Jesse Crain got 3 years. Come on now.

 

Matt Guerrier got 3 years, 12 million. That's almost what Downs got, and Downs is a much, much superior reliever.

 

Hisanori Takahashi got 2 years, 8 million.

 

Every one of those contracts is out of line either in years, money or both.

[WhiskeyBreath]

Just shows you what the market is for relief pitching and what the Sox should expect to pony up to land someone.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Scott Linebrink was the big MR for 08 and got 4/19 from the White Sox. He hasn't pitched over 60 innings yet and has had an ERA over 4.50 the past 2 years.

 

David Riske the other big MR signing that year for 3/13 had a 3.00 ERA over 5 years and has had a 5.40 ERA for the Brewers since his contract.

 

In 09, K-rod got 3/37. Was pretty pitiful for that money in his first year and was good in his second, albeit in less than 60 innings. He still has 12+ mil due to him next season

 

In 09 again, Damaso Marte, got 3/12, and has pitched a whopping 30 innings for the Yankees to the tune of a 6.40 ERA.

 

Those are the 4 guys who have gotten contracts over 2 years as MR over the past couple years with Brandon Lyon being done with one year of his from 10'. None of them have really worked out so far, and at the going rate of 3/15 for questionable MR, I'd probably pass or sign maybe one. Two MR at 3/15? no thanks

[WhiskeyBreath]

 

Those are the 4 guys who have gotten contracts over 2 years as MR over the past couple years with Brandon Lyon being done with one year of his from 10'. None of them have really worked out so far, and at the going rate of 3/15 for questionable MR, I'd probably pass or sign maybe one. Two MR at 3/15? no thanks

 

Ok, I agree with that but why is everyone so concerned with the cost? Overpaying for a reliever isn't going to hurt this team in the long run, what will hurt them is not having a reliable bullpen this season. How terrible would it be for this team and their gigantic payroll to lose important games this season because they were waiting out the market for "good deals".

[Dipre]

Because this team has budgetary constraints. And ineffective relievers become sunk cost.

 

They don't want to hit the luxury tax and be hamstringed in future transactions.

 

I bitched about the Crawford contract when they signed him, and i'll bitch even more now that it seems apparent that it's impacting the acquisitions of relievers negatively.

 

I'd rather they overpay on a one/two year deal than giving a reliever three years of guaranteed money . Yuck.

[italstallianion]

And I'd rather overpay and get a good reliever than to save a little money and have a s***** bullpen.

[The Celtbot]

Sign somebody FFS, with a ERA below 4 preferably!

 

There done, it will happen now...

[Dipre]

And I'd rather overpay and get a good reliever than to save a little money and have a s***** bullpen.

 

Overpaying on possible sunk costs is no way to operate a baseball team. Have the Yankees taught you nothing? <_>

 

Anyways, again, it's December 15th, if and when most of those relievers are gone, then it's time to panic. For the time being, we don't know what their plans are, or who they're really targeting. At this point about a month ago, no one expected Gonzo and Crawford to be part of the team, and look how that turned out.

[The Celtbot]

Rob Bradford, WEEI:

 

The team has agreed to terms with left-handed pitcher Lenny DiNardo on a minor-league, split contract. DiNardo confirmed the agreement by phone from Fort Myers, where he is working out. He has taken the team’s physical, with results of an MRI being the only thing remaining to finalize the deal. DiNardo said that he will be ready as either a starting depth option or as a reliever.

 

DiNardo, 31, spent three years with the Sox from 2004-06 ... DiNardo ended up turning in the best year of his career in 2007 under then-Oakland (and now Sox) pitching coach Curt Young.

 

Well at least it's a minor league contract.

[WhiskeyBreath]

Exactly. I complained about the Crawford deal too but to get cheap with the pen isn't the answer. I guess I shouldn't expect much anyway, building a pen has always been a struggle for Theo.

[italstallianion]

Overpaying on possible sunk costs is no way to operate a baseball team. Have the Yankees taught you nothing? <_>

 

Anyways, again, it's December 15th, if and when most of those relievers are gone, then it's time to panic. For the time being, we don't know what their plans are, or who they're really targeting. At this point about a month ago, no one expected Gonzo and Crawford to be part of the team, and look how that turned out.

 

 

 

Look, if one is going to make a mistake, I'd rather sign a good reliever for too long than to not sign a good reliever and start the season with a s***** bullpen. Unless that you can prove that the particular relievers are going to become sunk costs, then I don't buy your logic.

 

Until I wake up in the morning and see that we signed a reliever worth mentioning, then I'm going to continue to be pissed. Many of you are acting as if I'm jumping the gun or reacting too early, but will you all think the same way after Fuentes and Soriano sign with other teams?

[italstallianion]

There's nothing wrong with looking for a bullpen deal at the trade deadline, but we shouldn't let that prevent us from starting the season with a good bullpen. If nothing else we should sign at least one good reliever to make our bullpen acceptable and then see how the other relievers turn out and make a deal at that point. But to think that our bullpen is ok the way it is and that all necessary help will come at the trade deadline after our crappy bullpen has already cost us many games before then is unnecessary and easily preventable.

[Dipre]

Look, if one is going to make a mistake, I'd rather sign a good reliever for too long than to not sign a good reliever and start the season with a s***** bullpen. Unless that you can prove that the particular relievers are going to become sunk costs, then I don't buy your logic.

 

Until I wake up in the morning and see that we signed a reliever worth mentioning, then I'm going to continue to be pissed. Many of you are acting as if I'm jumping the gun or reacting too early, but will you all think the same way after Fuentes and Soriano sign with other teams?

 

Soriano is not an option for this team and he never was. Get real. He wants to close and it would become a bidding war with the Angels.

 

What is a "Good reliever". Give me an example of a "good reliever" who has signed a contract of more than two years (i'm talking MRP, upper-echelon closers) and have not become a sunk cost halfway through it.

 

I'll wait here.

[italstallianion]

I don't think that Soriano was an option for the Sox. I just meant that he's another good reliever available. The reliever market is thinning around us and we haven't appeared to do anything.

 

For once, I'm hoping that I'm wrong. Oh please Lord let me be wrong for once. I would LOVE nothing more than to eat crow in the morning knowing that we signed a good reliever and that I looked like an idiot for being pissed at Theo. I would LOVE it.

[Dipre]

Wrong for once?

 

I think you mean "wrong as usual" good sir.

[italstallianion]

Troll bait denied.

[Dipre]

How is the truth trolling?

 

We're all wrong on our predictions/assumptions a significant percentage of the time we make them. You and a700 included.

[italstallianion]

How is the truth trolling?

 

We're all wrong on our predictions/assumptions a significant percentage of the time we make them. You and a700 included.

 

 

By ignorantly referring to what you're saying as "the truth" would be a clear trolling effort to make me angry. You do it all the time, I'm just stopping it before it gets started.

 

Moving on, my point, simply put, is that:

 

1. Good relievers are dropping like flies.

2. We haven't signed a good one yet.

3. We've signed 2 crappy ones.

4. We need bullpen help.

 

That is all I'm saying and it really isn't refutable. I'm frustrated because the opportunities are dwindling and we seem to be sitting on our rear ends with a crappy bullpen and I'm saying that it could very well cost us in the end. WhiskeyBreath (and Palodios in the following post) seem to be making my point too but nobody is attacking them about it.

[Palodios]

The simple fact of the matter is... this team is desperate for bullpen help. If Bard goes down, is there anyone on this team you can really trust?

[Dipre]

Atchison. He's our savior!

 

@ Ital:

 

Define "like flies":

 

Out of around 16-17 decent options on the reliever market, six(Takahashi, Downs, Guerrier, Crane, Putz, Benoit) have signed.

 

More than enough options, more than enough time. When and if they really start dropping like flies, then we can all engage in a collective scream of panic.

[WhiskeyBreath]

The simple fact of the matter is... this team is desperate for bullpen help. If Bard goes down' date=' is there anyone on this team you can really trust?[/quote']

 

Nope.

 

I'd really like to see them sign a guy who is capable of pitching in the 8th inning. Bard was used a LOT last year and I would like to be able to see him not be relied on so heavily as he was. Francona really didn't have any options other than him when the game was really on the line. I'd hate to see that kid burned out because he is the only option.

[Dipre]

Nope.

 

I'd really like to see them sign a guy who is capable of pitching in the 8th inning. Bard was used a LOT last year and I would like to be able to see him not be relied on so heavily as he was. Francona really didn't have any options other than him when the game was really on the line. I'd hate to see that kid burned out because he is the only option.

 

Two words: Bobby Jenks.

 

Get it done!