The Official 2010 Hot Stove Thread.

[Will617]

Beltran (18.5 million) - Dice K (8 million) = 10.5 million.

 

If the Mets are offering Beltran, with all of his salary, for a ML player, obviously that is a deal that no GM would take on. The Mets would have to eat salary to get anything in return, and the reason they would eat salary to take on Dice-K is because Dice-K also fills a need for the Mets.

You view Dice-K as a straight salary dump, which he's not; he's a little overpaid, but not incredibly so.

[Will617]

Jenks and Fuentes. /offseason.

 

That, plus a few complimentary pieces, is what I think the Sox will end up. Which I think would be pretty solid.

[Dipre]

If the Mets are offering Beltran, with all of his salary, for a ML player, obviously that is a deal that no GM would take on. The Mets would have to eat salary to get anything in return, and the reason they would eat salary to take on Dice-K is because Dice-K also fills a need for the Mets.

You view Dice-K as a straight salary dump, which he's not; he's a little overpaid, but not incredibly so.

 

It's a contract swap. And even if the Mets did eat some more salary, how much more could it be? And the eight million you would save from trading Dice-K somewhere else (while maybe getting something valuable in return) would be neutralized because they're included in the Beltran transaction.

[redsoxrules]

The Red Sox appear to be focusing on Ordonez in their search for an outfielder, reports CBS Sports' Danny Knobler. This would not be good news for Carl Crawford. The Tigers, Phillies, and Orioles are also said to be in the mix for Maggs. Ordonez is coming off a broken ankle, but worked out for teams today. Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports says Boras is seeking at least two years and $20MM

 

It's doubtful that the Red Sox would give Ordonez a two-year deal, Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe hears

[Will617]

It's a contract swap. And even if the Mets did eat some more salary' date=' how much more could it be? And the eight million you would save from trading Dice-K somewhere else (while maybe getting something valuable in return) would be neutralized because they're included in the Beltran transaction.[/quote']

 

I still feel like it would have to be more than a contract swap if the Mets want to get anything at all. But I guess it depends on how much they value Dice-K.

Would prefer Beltran's defense and age to Ordonez's, but a one-year deal for Ordonez would work pretty well. If he wants two years, I feel that our current OF crew would be a better option going forward, although I've heard that Theo wants to start Kalish at AAA next year.

[a700hitter]

Reminder to the FO:

 

Don't get Carl Crawford.

 

It's not about overpaying for a shiny toy with platoon issues, but setting up a roster that has the chance to win now and in the future.

 

Get Lee and Ordonez instead.

I'm all for your suggested alternative, but if you don't think Lee is a shiny new toy, I certainly do. Are we going to get into a pissing contest as to which is shinier? Either one would have a big impact on Boston's future in a very positive way.

 

On the topic of Beltran, I've told you guys that I know people working with the Mets. The are having huge $ trouble. They don't want talent in return for Beltran except to the extent that they have to placate the fan base. They want to dump his salary. I doubt they will be eating much, if any, of his salary. This is a 5 tool guy, who has regained his health and he will be playing for a new contract. Take the 1 year hit and take his salary and LF is no longer an issue.

[ORS]

I don't like Downs due to his type A status, agree on Guerrier and Martin.

 

Apparently the Nats are asking for the world for Willingham, but he makes a ton of sense.

Not an issue, IMO. They'll get two supplemental 1st rounders from VMart and Beltre + two supplemental round picks. Losing their #24 pick is not a big deal. Now, getting him to accept a deal to keep setting up might be an issue. He's probably going to get offers to close.

 

EDIT: I realize Beltre may turn into a 2nd round pick, but I'm still good with it.

[ORS]

On the topic of Beltran, I've told you guys that I know people working with the Mets. The are having huge $ trouble. They don't want talent in return for Beltran except to the extent that they have to placate the fan base. They want to dump his salary. I doubt they will be eating much, if any, of his salary. This is a 5 tool guy, who has regained his health and he will be playing for a new contract. Take the 1 year hit and take his salary and LF is no longer an issue.

I agree 100% with this. If he's available for a token prospect, even if it's at full freight, they should get him.

[BSN07]

 

On the topic of Beltran, I've told you guys that I know people working with the Mets. The are having huge $ trouble. They don't want talent in return for Beltran except to the extent that they have to placate the fan base. They want to dump his salary. I doubt they will be eating much, if any, of his salary. This is a 5 tool guy, who has regained his health and he will be playing for a new contract. Take the 1 year hit and take his salary and LF is no longer an issue.

 

I'm hoping they can pull it off. I think Beltran could fit perfectly in this line up.

[a700hitter]

As for Crawford's value, I think his offensive impact is being underrated as opposed to overrated. People almost dismissively refer to his speed as "flashy." I view it much differently. I think it is a rare and lethal weapon. He stole 47 bases last season (essentially turning singles into doubles and doubles into triples). If those additional bases were factored into his Slugging % and OPS, net of the times he was thrown out, his 2010 OPS would be .913 and .845 for his career. Those are damn good numbers and that doesn't even take into account the havoc that his speed together with Ellsbury would cause for defenses and the number of errors that would be forced. Crawford is an impact player-- not just a flashy toy.

[Dojji]

I agree 100% with this. If he's available for a token prospect' date=' even if it's at full freight, they should get him.[/quote']

 

Offer 'em the herculean stud that is Daniel Nava.

 

I definitely move for Beltran even if it costs us a crack at Lee. With that kind of salary and an NTC the Mets have no ability to be choosy.

 

More to the point, I do *not* want Beltran in pinstripes next year.

[redsoxrules]

As for Crawford's value' date=' I think his offensive impact is being underrated as opposed to overrated. People almost dismissively refer to his speed as "flashy." I view it much differently. I think it is a rare and lethal weapon. He stole 47 bases last season (essentially turning singles into doubles and doubles into triples). If those additional bases were factored into his Slugging % and OPS, net of the times he was thrown out, his 2010 OPS would be .913 and .845 for his career. Those are damn good numbers and that doesn't even take into account the havoc that his speed together with Ellsbury would cause for defenses and the number of errors that would be forced. Crawford is an impact player-- not just a flashy toy.[/quote']

 

so what happens when crawford loses a step in a few years from now ?

 

you just proved a great point, his value is purely based on his speed. once that's gone , everything else is down the toilet

[a700hitter]

Magglio Ordonez Rumors: Wednesday

By Tim Dierkes [December 8 at 4:05pm CST]

 

The latest on Magglio Ordonez...

 

* Interestingly, the Red Sox did not have a representative at Ordonez's worked today, according to Rob Bradford of WEEI.com.

* It's doubtful that the Red Sox would give Ordonez a two-year deal, Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe hears (Twitter link).

I am not crazy about Maggs on a 2 year contract.

[a700hitter]

so what happens when crawford loses a step in a few years from now ?

 

you just proved a great point, his value is purely based on his speed. once that's gone , everything else is down the toilet

He's only 28. I expect that the hitting part of his game including his power production will improve to fill any void created by diminishing speed.

[WhiskeyBreath]

I am not crazy about Maggs on a 2 year contract.

 

I wouldn't mind 2 years. DH will be open next season.

[a700hitter]

I wouldn't mind 2 years. DH will be open next season.

He is almost 2 years older than Ortiz.

[WhiskeyBreath]

I'm well aware of that.

[Spudboy]

I wouldn't mind 2 years. DH will be open next season.

 

He's what, 36?

 

If his ankle is healed and he can continue to hit, I'd have no problem paying the Borris asking price of 2/20.

[a700hitter]

He's what, 36?

 

If his ankle is healed and he can continue to hit, I'd have no problem paying the Borris asking price of 2/20.

I think he has has a few injury marred seasons recently. I think he has a bum shoulder.

[italstallianion]

He is almost 2 years older than Ortiz.

 

 

 

In all fairness, he isn't relied upon as a power hitter like David Ortiz is. If David Ortiz's power goes, then he's completely useless, whereas Magglio Ordonez has always been a good contact hitter, so his value isn't as quickly diminished with age as Ortiz's is. In addition, it's not like we're handing out a long term contract, so I think his age is even less of an issue than it was a few sentences ago. I definitely would have rather have had him than Cameron (save for the part that Cameron can play CF)

[redsoxrules]

Multiple baseball sources and people close to Crawford tell Mark Saxon of ESPNLosAngeles that they expect the left fielder to sign with the Angels.

[italstallianion]

That's where I've thought he should go all along. He seems like he'd be a perfect fit there, and more importantly, wouldn't be on the Yankees, which I consider a win for us anyway.

[WhiskeyBreath]

I think he has has a few injury marred seasons recently. I think he has a bum shoulder.

 

I don't recall that being the case. I knew prior to signing in Detroit that he had an injury clause in his contract for a knee problem but I've never heard of a shoulder injury.

 

Boras said that "he's only had one other DL stint since '06, 18 days for an oblique strain in '08." MLBTR

[a700hitter]

I don't recall that being the case. I knew prior to signing in Detroit that he had an injury clause in his contract for a knee problem but I've never heard of a shoulder injury.

 

Boras said that "he's only had one other DL stint since '06, 18 days for an oblique strain in '08." MLBTR

I think you are right, but my faulty recollection is that it was a severe knee injury.

[Spudboy]

 

Good. If it happens. Get him out of the AL East and keep him away from the Yankees.

 

He's one of my favorite players and I'd love to see him playing for the Sox, but not at the asking price/number of years.

[WhiskeyBreath]

I think you are right' date=' but my faulty recollection is that it was a severe knee injury.[/quote']

 

Yeah, it was pretty severe. Took him a couple of years to get back from it.

[The Celtbot]

GordonEdes:

Sox source on team's chances to sign Crawford: "I think market is too crazy." [via Twitter]

[redsoxrules]

The Yankees offered Lee a six-year deal worth $140MM, according to Mark Feinsand of the New York Daily News

 

please decline Lee

[Meh]

please decline Lee

 

He should cause the Yankees will add $10 million to it.

[The Celtbot]

please decline Lee

 

Seconded. Thought it would be for more than that.