Yankees 2010-2011 Hotstove Thread

[SoxFanForsyth]

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/columns/story?columnist=matthews_wallace&id=6022424

 

According to ESPN New York's Wallace Matthews, the addition of Soriano just made the Yankees favorites again.

 

Listen, I understand that it shortens the game, but he's saying basically that it solved all of their pitching problems.

 

I guess the Yankees writers had to write an article to compete with the Worst Article of the Offseason, which Eric Ortiz's is currently the favorite for, with his article comparing the Sox to the 1927 Yankees.

 

How, again, do these writers have jobs?!?

[Keeper]

Okay, the Yankees now have a very good bullpen, maybe the best in baseball. Still gotta have starting pitching, though. And right now their rotation is a mess.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Not to mention Soriano is only going to shorten 65 games a year. You're not going to see the Soriano - Mo combo more than 55 to 65 times a year.

 

I get it, that's an incredibly stout 8th and 9th inning, and it shortens quite a few games, but it doesn't replace 3/5 of their rotation.

 

And if he is going to argue that the Yankees rotation got better by the addition of Soriano, why didn't the Sox rotation get better by the addition of Jenks and Wheeler? I'm pretty sure Wheeler, Jenks, Bard is a very strong 7th and 8th inning bullpen.

 

Just delusional writing. I honestly can't believe that ESPN published that. I can't believe NESN published Eric Ortiz's article either.

[Meh]

Well what I think what makes the Yankees dangerous is they still have a lot of money to spend and a deep farm system. Right now it's really close but I'd give the Red Sox the edge still. Both teams have good bullpens, but with Papelbon at the end I'm kind of uneasy about them. I like the Yankees lineup better as much as I like the Red Sox starting pitching better. Red Sox have an impressive bench with Cameron, Scutaro, Kalish and Tek/Salty whichever doesn't start.

[yankees228]

Well what I think what makes the Yankees dangerous is they still have a lot of money to spend and a deep farm system. Right now it's really close but I'd give the Red Sox the edge still. Both teams have good bullpens' date=' but with Papelbon at the end I'm kind of uneasy about them. I like the Yankees lineup better as much as I like the Red Sox starting pitching better. Red Sox have an impressive bench with Cameron, Scutaro, Kalish and Tek/Salty whichever doesn't start.[/quote']

 

I like the Red Sox too, at this point. I think we know what we'll get out of both offenses. The pitching is where the Red Sox have the clear edge, but, at the same time, I'm curious to see how Beckett, Lackey, and Dice-K do this year.

[Meh]

I like the Red Sox too' date=' at this point. I think we know what we'll get out of both offenses. The pitching is where the Red Sox have the clear edge, but, at the same time, I'm curious to see how Beckett, Lackey, and Dice-K do this year.[/quote']

 

Yeah it seems everyone thinks all three or at least two will bounce back. Well see on that account. Still a lot of off season left, let's see what each team has up its sleeve.

[Keeper]

Lackey doesn't really need to bounce back. His 2nd half (3.97 ERA, 1.22 WHIP in 102 innings) was very good. Burnett is as big a question mark as Beckett and Dice-K.

[yankees228]

Lackey doesn't really need to bounce back. His 2nd half (3.97 ERA' date=' 1.22 WHIP in 102 innings) was very good. Burnett is as big a question mark as Beckett and Dice-K.[/quote']

 

Completely agreed about Burnett. I think the problems in the Yankees' rotation go without saying.

 

My only point was that, while the Red Sox rotation will likely be good, it's contingent on a few players bouncing back (or, in the case of Lackey, his 2011 season mirroring his second half instead of his first half).

[bsox0407]

Completely agreed about Burnett. I think the problems in the Yankees' rotation go without saying.

 

My only point was that, while the Red Sox rotation will likely be good, it's contingent on a few players bouncing back (or, in the case of Lackey, his 2011 season mirroring his second half instead of his first half).

 

A big Question for the Yankees is whether or not Jeter is his old self. LF is still up in the air for the Yankees as well. Thames and Gardner are good but I dont think they can be as good as Crawford. I Give the Yankees CF and a slight edge on 3rd base with A-rod over Youk. 1B, 2B, RF, are about a push. Catching is NY. But with Jeter getting older it is getting closer to avg. But Still the Red Sox have the better rotation and their bullpen isn't that far behind the NYY. Jenks Wheeler Bard OKI and Papelbon. Not a Bad Combo.

[Dipre]

Well what I think what makes the Yankees dangerous is they still have a lot of money to spend and a deep farm system. Right now it's really close but I'd give the Red Sox the edge still. Both teams have good bullpens' date=' but with Papelbon at the end I'm kind of uneasy about them. I like the Yankees lineup better as much as I like the Red Sox starting pitching better. Red Sox have an impressive bench with Cameron, Scutaro, Kalish and Tek/Salty whichever doesn't start.[/quote']

 

Right now it's not close. Don't be a homer.

 

If/when the Yankees fix their rotation, then it will be close, and depending on how much they fix it, the Sox will probably still have an edge. It seems absolutely impossible for some Yankee fans to simply say "Right now the Red Sox look like the clearly better team". Wow.

[a700hitter]

Even if Nova and Mitre are twice as good as Hughes and Joba were in 2008, the Yankee rotation is in lots of trouble. Giving two rotation spots to two completely unaccomplished rookie kids will be a disaster in the AL East, regardless of the bullpen. The Sox have an All Star lineup. The guys in Toronto can hit with tons of power, and the Oriole lineup will be much improved with Derek Lee, Mark Reynolds, a full season of Roberts, and Wieters with a year of experience. The Rays lineup is still pretty good. The Yankee bullpen arms will be like limp noodles by August 1st.

[yankees228]

Even if Nova and Mitre are twice as good as Hughes and Joba were in 2008' date=' the Yankee rotation is in lots of trouble. Giving two rotation spots to two completely unaccomplished rookie kids will be a disaster in the AL East, regardless of the bullpen. The Sox have an All Star lineup. The guys in Toronto can hit with tons of power, and the Oriole lineup will be much improved with Derek Lee, Mark Reynolds, a full season of Roberts, and Wieters with a year of experience. The Rays lineup is still pretty good. The Yankee bullpen arms will be like limp noodles by August 1st.[/quote']

 

Replacing Mitre prior to the start of the season is a must, in my opinion. I don't know who they're going to get, but I'm confident that, barring injury, Mitre won't be the fifth starter.

[yankees228]

I've seen people compare the 2011 Yankees to the 2004 Yankees, and I think that's a definite possibility. That team didn't get a lot of starting pitching, scored a ton of runs, and dominated the late innings.

[a700hitter]

I've seen people compare the 2011 Yankees to the 2004 Yankees' date=' and I think that's a definite possibility. That team didn't get a lot of starting pitching, scored a ton of runs, and dominated the late innings.[/quote']Torre did an excellent job of getting a lot of production from a subpar 2004 starting rotation. That team over-performed during the regular season and the 2004 Sox underperformed for the first 3 1/2 months of the season. Girardi will have a tremendous challenge in front of him if they don't get another starter.

[Dipre]

Torre did an excellent job of getting a lot of production from a subpar 2004 starting rotation. That team over-performed during the regular season and the 2004 Sox underperformed for the first 3 1/2 months of the season. Girardi will have a tremendous challenge in front of him if they don't get another starter.

 

And, as we all know, Girardi isn't half the manager Torre was. To some extent, the Yankees win in spite of Girardi, just like the Sox win in spite of Tito, but right now, the talent scale is clearly tipped in the Sox favor. There's just no other way to slice it.

[a700hitter]

And' date=' as we all know, Girardi isn't half the manager Torre was. To some extent, the Yankees win in spite of Girardi, just like the Sox win in spite of Tito, but right now, the talent scale is clearly tipped in the Sox favor. There's just no other way to slice it.[/quote']None.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I've seen people compare the 2011 Yankees to the 2004 Yankees' date=' and I think that's a definite possibility. That team didn't get a lot of starting pitching, scored a ton of runs, and dominated the late innings.[/quote']

 

How Torre squeezed 70 wins out of his starters in 2004 is beyond me. The SP posted a 4.84 ERA, and was good for 70 wins.

 

Right now, the AL East is just way too good for your SP to post a 4.8+ ERA and be good for more than 60 wins.

 

Look at the 2004 standings. You had NY with 101 wins, BOS with 98, and then 3rd place was BAL with 78 wins.

 

The Jays are getting much better (they were closer to the Sox last year than the Sox were to the Yanks), the Orioles made some nice off season acquisitions, and the Rays pitching staff is going to at least keep them in a lot of games through 7 innings.

[yankees228]

How Torre squeezed 70 wins out of his starters in 2004 is beyond me. The SP posted a 4.84 ERA, and was good for 70 wins.

 

Right now, the AL East is just way too good for your SP to post a 4.8+ ERA and be good for more than 60 wins.

 

Look at the 2004 standings. You had NY with 101 wins, BOS with 98, and then 3rd place was BAL with 78 wins.

 

The Jays are getting much better (they were closer to the Sox last year than the Sox were to the Yanks), the Orioles made some nice off season acquisitions, and the Rays pitching staff is going to at least keep them in a lot of games through 7 innings.

 

I'm not saying I expect equal success. My point is that the two teams seem to be constructed similarly.

[ORS]

I've seen people compare the 2011 Yankees to the 2004 Yankees' date=' and I think that's a definite possibility. That team didn't get a lot of starting pitching, scored a ton of runs, and dominated the late innings.[/quote']

Pythag had them at 89-73. A good BP can sometimes help you beat your Pythag, but I wouldn't count on being 12 wins better.

 

EDIT: Nevermind, apparently, by your last post, the point you appeared to be making was not what you were trying to say.

[Meh]

Hopefully we can nail down Andruw Jones soon. He'll be a nice fourth outfielder I think, shouldn't cost a ton either.

[yankees228]

Pythag had them at 89-73. A good BP can sometimes help you beat your Pythag, but I wouldn't count on being 12 wins better.

 

EDIT: Nevermind, apparently, by your last post, the point you appeared to be making was not what you were trying to say.

 

Yeah my fault, I should have made that clearer in my initial post. The 2004 team over-performed by a tremendous amount, and it would be foolish to expect similar success this year. It's just that, on paper, the teams seem to be similar. I do think this team can win in the low 90s, especially if they replace Mitre in the rotation.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think the Yanks are about a 92 win team. I think with an improvement from Jeter and ARod, we'll have a better offense. Our rotation will be weaker without Pettitte and the degree of that weakness will depend on Burnett and whoever we have fill out the #4 spot. And I think our pen is obviously stronger. And right now, I think the sox are about a 95-98 win team

[diony]

I think the Yanks are about a 92 win team. I think with an improvement from Jeter and ARod' date=' we'll have a better offense. Our rotation will be weaker without Pettitte and the degree of that weakness will depend on Burnett and whoever we have fill out the #4 spot. And I think our pen is obviously stronger. And right now, I think the sox are about a 95-98 win team[/quote']

 

A full season of Granderson. Russel Martin over Cervelli and our lockdown pen. Makes this team better than last year. They still need that starter. I'd like them to get Wandy Rodriguez.

[yankees228]

I'd like them to get someone like Wandy Rodriguez or Gavin Floyd as well, but I'm also concerned about what it would cost them. The Yankees shouldn't get desperate and part with Montero in exchange for a pitcher of that caliber. I know you're not suggesting that, but with the Yankees needing rotation help (and with the other teams knowing they need rotation help), I could see it happening.

 

If they can get a 5+ WAR pitcher for the next 5 years (or so), then they should consider trading Montero, but not for less.

[diony]

 

If they can get a 5+ WAR pitcher for the next 5 years (or so), then they should consider trading Montero, but not for less.

 

I don't think there's a pitcher like that in the trade market right now. Everyone's locked and signed. Even Floyd won't be traded now, unless Peavy is healthy or the ChiSox decide to put Chris Sale in the rotation.

[yankees228]

I don't think there's a pitcher like that in the trade market right now. Everyone's locked and signed. Even Floyd won't be traded now' date=' unless Peavy is healthy or the ChiSox decide to put Chris Sale in the rotation.[/quote']

 

I tend to agree, but I don't think that means they should settle for less in a deal for Montero.

[SoxFanForsyth]

A full season of Granderson. Russel Martin over Cervelli and our lockdown pen. Makes this team better than last year. They still need that starter. I'd like them to get Wandy Rodriguez.

 

Cervelli hit .271 with a .359 OBP last year. No power, obviously, though. I agree that Martin will be better in the future than Cervelli will be in the future, but if Martin hits .271/359 this year, he'll be doing well.

 

I just don't see how Granderson playing 24 more games and Martin replacing Cervelli makes the Yankees better than last year. :dunno:

[yankees228]

Cervelli hit .271 with a .359 OBP last year. No power, obviously, though. I agree that Martin will be better in the future than Cervelli will be in the future, but if Martin hits .271/359 this year, he'll be doing well.

 

I just don't see how Granderson playing 24 more games and Martin replacing Cervelli makes the Yankees better than last year. :dunno:

 

I'm not saying they'll be better than last year, but I expect Granderson to have a better season than he did in 2010 (in addition to playing more games), and Martin should provide better defense than Cervelli.

[diony]

Cervelli hit .271 with a .359 OBP last year. No power, obviously, though. I agree that Martin will be better in the future than Cervelli will be in the future, but if Martin hits .271/359 this year, he'll be doing well.

 

Granderson made adjustments in the 2nd half, and he can implement that over the course of a full season. He'll definitely hit 35 bombs and OPS .900. Martin is an upgrade offensively and defensively than Cervelli. Cervelli's numbers are inflated by a monster April and September, don't be fooled.

[yankees228]

Granderson made adjustments in the 2nd half' date=' and he can implement that over the course of a full season. He'll definitely hit 35 bombs and OPS .900. Martin is an upgrade offensively and defensively than Cervelli. Cervelli's numbers are inflated by a monster April and September, don't be fooled.[/quote']

 

It's way too optimistic to say Granderson will definitely produce those numbers. I expect his 2011 offensive numbers to be much closer to what he did in the second half last year, as opposed to the first. But I think expecting a .900 OPS is going overboard.

 

At the same time, I think Granderson is capable of producing a 5+ WAR this year.