The "Unofficial Pre- Hot Stove (2010)" thread.

[mvp 78]

If the Sox bring in Dunn (please, oh please) Youk can go to 3b if they keep Papi. Dunn should have been brought here 2 years ago.

[Youk Of The Nation]

So you're saying it should have been a Dunn deal?

[example1]

If the Sox bring in Dunn (please' date=' oh please) Youk can go to 3b if they keep Papi. Dunn should have been brought here 2 years ago.[/quote']

 

That's too many big and slow guys. If they get Dunn then Ortiz should be gone.

 

I think Dunn would come to Boston if they showed him the money. Boston would offer a really good chance to win.

 

The person who replaces Papi will need to be able to put up similar numbers, not just for the lineup/production but also because anyone filling that void will have a tremendous amount of pressure to produce. There are few players in baseball who have the proven consistency of Dunn.

 

As far as I can see, if Papi tries to play hardball the Sox should take that as an opportunity to move on. They can land Dunn because they would have the money.

[DiceBB]

That's too many big and slow guys. If they get Dunn then Ortiz should be gone.

 

I think Dunn would come to Boston if they showed him the money. Boston would offer a really good chance to win.

 

The person who replaces Papi will need to be able to put up similar numbers, not just for the lineup/production but also because anyone filling that void will have a tremendous amount of pressure to produce. There are few players in baseball who have the proven consistency of Dunn.

 

As far as I can see, if Papi tries to play hardball the Sox should take that as an opportunity to move on. They can land Dunn because they would have the money.

It's too bad that n one is replacing Papi. He is staying put.

[Will617]

That's too many big and slow guys. If they get Dunn then Ortiz should be gone.

 

Speed isn't that big of a deal when one is a DH and one is a 1B. The number of times that Ortiz has gotten out because of his slowness can't be very many (when a faster person would have been safe).

[mvp 78]

The 86 Sox didn't have any speed and they turned out ok.

 

The only question mark for me is that bringing in Dunn may make us even more short handed against tough lefties.

 

Personally, I'd rather have Dunn than Papi, but think the two could coexist just fine.

[example1]

It's too bad that n one is replacing Papi. He is staying put.

 

Resigned or picking up his option? This FO isn't going to be fooled into thinking he's one of the game's best producers anymore. They aren't stupid.

 

Speed isn't that big of a deal when one is a DH and one is a 1B. The number of times that Ortiz has gotten out because of his slowness can't be very many (when a faster person would have been safe).

 

It is simply too little versatility for tha tmuch money. If Papi wants, say, 30m for 3 years and Dunn wants 39m for 3 years that's just too much money for two DHs who really can't do anything else.

 

The 86 Sox didn't have any speed and they turned out ok.

 

The only question mark for me is that bringing in Dunn may make us even more short handed against tough lefties.

 

Personally, I'd rather have Dunn than Papi, but think the two could coexist just fine.

 

As you note, they would be even more shorthanded against lefties. I don't see it happening.

 

Dunn is a younger version of Papi. He is basically Papi 3-4 years ago. Ortiz's slumps and struggles against lefties make him a real question mark in my mind. Dunn wouldn't be intended to be a replacement for Ortiz per-se (a la Adrian Gonzalez or Prince Fielder). He would be intended to be another consistent producer in the middle of the order and should be paid like it (not like those other guys).

 

I'm not totally sold on Dunn being the answer, but if they were going to resign Ortiz for multiple years I would prefer Dunn. Signing neither and getting someone better through trade or FA would be preferable.

[mvp 78]

He's an average defensive 1b. Saying that he's DH only is kinda overstating it.

[SCM33]

If the Sox bring in Dunn (please' date=' oh please) Youk can go to 3b if they keep Papi. Dunn should have been brought here 2 years ago.[/quote']

 

Thats a s***** defensive team with limited options. Kind of goes against the grain of this seasons motto.

 

Dunn at 1B

Youk at 3B

Vmart at C

...and a guy at DH with zero defensive flexibility.

 

I wrote in another thread, the days of an all hit, no glove DH are pretty much over.

 

I want Dunn, I want Vmart, I want Youk.......but Beltre over Ortiz makes more sense. At least Dunn can go in the OF or 1B every now and then to give another guy a day off in the field. Hes not that great....but Ortiz will NEVER pick up a glove to give another guy the day off.

[example1]

So, resign Beltre, sign Dunn, let Ortiz go then?

 

Resigning V-Mart seems like a separate discussion.

 

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Dunn

Youkilis

V-Mart (?)

Beltre

Drew

Scutaro

Kalish

 

Or without V-Mart

 

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Dunn

Youkilis

Drew

Beltre

Saltalamacchia

Scutaro

Kalish

 

Personally, I would love to find a way for Youkilis to bat 3rd and Dunn 4th, because Youkilis would still be this team's best overall hitter, but the L/R/L/R might take higher priority.

[SCM33]

So' date=' resign Beltre, sign Dunn, let Ortiz go then?[/quote']

 

Yeah. Kind of sad to actually say it, but I think it makes more sense. Signing Beltre is a must though. I know hes a contract year type player, but I think he fits well in Fenway. I think Vmart will be signed, Im am optimistic that theyve already began contract talks.

 

You make those moves and overhaul the bullpen and I think it is a solid offseason. This team didnt miss by much. You have to expect better out of Lackey and Beckett next season. Beckett was hurt early and never recovered. I think Lackey might have put too much pressure on himself when the injuries happened and Beckett went down. If they tell him he is a number 3 or 4, I think that takes a lot of pressure off of him.

[example1]

Yeah. Kind of sad to actually say it, but I think it makes more sense. Signing Beltre is a must though. I know hes a contract year type player, but I think he fits well in Fenway.

 

You make those moves and overhaul the bullpen and I think it is a solid offseason. This team didnt miss by much. You have to expect better out of Lackey and Beckett next season. Beckett was hurt early and never recovered. I think Lackey might have put too much pressure on himself when the injuries happened and Beckett went down. If they tell him he is a number 3 or 4, I think that takes a lot of pressure off of him.

 

Weren't you ranting and raving a few weeks ago?

 

Seems like a solid plan.

 

Even with Beltre's contract year tendencies, he has put up pretty consistently good WARs due to his defense alone. The Sox should pay him for something between his offensive production of 2010 and his production of 2008 and 2009, with the assumption that he will be one of the game's best defensive 3B regardless. I hope he would sign for 4 years/$52m, and I think that might be a bit of a $$ stretch for the Sox but it could be inevitable.

 

Beltre doesn't really excite me as a player, but 3B appears to be the most difficult position to find right now and they shouldn't let him get away.

 

All season I have had visions of Beltre going to Anaheim and leading them to the playoffs next year. Don't know why, but it seems like if the Sox don't want him another playoff contender will.

 

They should also dock Beltre's pay for every Sox OF that he injures with his elephant-like charges after flyballs.

[SCM33]

Weren't you ranting and raving a few weeks ago?

 

Seems like a solid plan.

 

Even with Beltre's contract year tendencies, he has put up pretty consistently good WARs due to his defense alone. The Sox should pay him for something between his offensive production of 2010 and his production of 2008 and 2009, with the assumption that he will be one of the game's best defensive 3B regardless. I hope he would sign for 4 years/$52m, and I think that might be a bit of a $$ stretch for the Sox but it could be inevitable.

 

Beltre doesn't really excite me as a player, but 3B appears to be the most difficult position to find right now and they shouldn't let him get away.

 

All season I have had visions of Beltre going to Anaheim and leading them to the playoffs next year. Don't know why, but it seems like if the Sox don't want him another playoff contender will.

 

They should also dock Beltre's pay for every Sox OF that he injures with his elephant-like charges after flyballs.

 

I work for the government, so I hate all administration. Sometimes that spills over. I see the politicking and ******** behind the scenes type garbage to save a buck on a daily basis. I guess bitching and moaning wears thin on anybodies ears, even thick skinned sox fans.

 

Beltre, even when he tails off......I still think hes going to be a productive player if we bring him back. Ive never seen a player swing as hard as him, other than Sheffield....and with the monster only 300 something feet away, theres always a chance. Throw in the fact hes a plus D player....and weve got something of value.

 

I would go like this for a lineup though:

 

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Vmart

Youkilis

Dunn

Beltre

Drew

Scutaro

Kalish/whoever else signed to play LF.

 

LH/RH doesnt bother me much. Vmart and Youkilis are both better contact hitters than Dunn, therfore should be in the top 4 of the lineup.

[Will617]

Dunn isn't going to DH. The fact that he's played average defense this season is only going to strengthen his hand on that point.

The only problem with having both Dunn and Ortiz is that they're both left-handed (that, and neither are named Adrian Gonzalez, Price Fielder, or Albert Pujols).

The most flexible option would be to sign a one-year stopgap at 1B, pick up Ortiz's option and let VMart go. Signing Beltre would make sense if the Sox were going to go after Fielder (a DH type), as Gonzalez and Pujols would probably make more given their defensive qualities.

[example1]

Dunn isn't going to DH. The fact that he's played average defense this season is only going to strengthen his hand on that point.

The only problem with having both Dunn and Ortiz is that they're both left-handed (that, and neither are named Adrian Gonzalez, Price Fielder, or Albert Pujols).

The most flexible option would be to sign a one-year stopgap at 1B, pick up Ortiz's option and let VMart go. Signing Beltre would make sense if the Sox were going to go after Fielder (a DH type), as Gonzalez and Pujols would probably make more given their defensive qualities.

 

On a good team Dunn hurts them by playing defense. With enough money and some convincing perhaps he could be shown that. Other teams should pay him less f he demands to play 1B or a COF spot. Seriously.

 

Which contending AL team would consider Dunn's glove to be an upgrade at 1B, LF or RF? There might be one or two, but not many (I can't think of one, but remain open to the possibility that there is one). Dunn either needs to agree to play elsewhere or play for a non-contending team. With enough money and the promise of rings Dunn would be stupid to resist being a DH with occasional stints at 1B, or LF at home.

[de coverly]

Which contending AL team would consider Dunn's glove to be an upgrade at 1B' date=' LF or RF? There might be one or two, but not many (I can't think of one, but remain open to the possibility that there is one). Dunn either needs to agree to play elsewhere or play for a non-contending team. With enough money and the promise of rings Dunn would be stupid to resist being a DH with occasional stints at 1B, or LF at home.[/quote']

 

But if we are talking about that kind of a contract, then Epstein has to let one or two of our overpaid players go first. I kinda like the idea to let V-Mart go and bring in a good corner guy. Right now I would prefer a catcher with a lower avg who is therefore better defensively and works better with our pitchers. Yesterdays series finale against Oakland was a perfect example for Martinez inability to work with our starting pitchers. You could do some different things with his salary.

[Dojji]

We're going to be letting Lowell's money off the books, and possibly Ortiz's. Between the two we'll have no trouble affording Dunn and V-Mart.

[de coverly]

We're going to be letting Lowell's money off the books' date=' and possibly Ortiz's. Between the two we'll have no trouble affording Dunn and V-Mart.[/quote']

 

Right, I forgot about Lowell. But I'm here to say that Martinez work behind the plate is just unsatisfactory. And for first base there are better alternatives in the league and even better alternatives in the team.

 

But somehow I have the feeling that we are going to see much more changes to the team than C, 1B/3B and DH. This will be another team next year.

[BSN07]

This will be another team next year.

 

I agree. I am not sure of the extent though. I guess we can start at who the Sox will for sure have on the 2011 Red Sox(and yes I know that anyone can get traded, these are just the most likely to not). Beckett, Lackey, Lester, Buchholz, Dice-K(No trade clause), Youk, Pedroia,Salty and Bard. I think it's safe to say that save Dice-K, all will be part of the 2011 Red Sox.

 

Now Jacoby, Drew, Papi, and Papelbon fall into the "probably be on the Sox in 2011 group". But Papis' option may not get picked up, and the other 3 are conceivably trade candidates. Albeit the returns on any of them would have to be worth it to the organization to do so.

[jacksonianmarch]

It sounds like the sox are picking up Papi's option

[Yaz Sideburn]

It sounds like the sox are picking up Papi's option

 

i'll be disappointed if they do. they could probably renegotiate with him and sign him for less

[Spudboy]

i'll be disappointed if they do. they could probably renegotiate with him and sign him for less

 

This.

 

He has little, if any, bargaining power.

[Yaz Sideburn]

This.

 

He has little, if any, bargaining power.

 

everyone knows he wants to stay here and with his inconcistency the last 3 years, and inability to play the field there isn't much of a market for him. we could probably sign him for 2 years at roughly the same annual salary as his option

[a700hitter]

No one sees the possibility that if the Sox lowball Ortiz and try to get two years from him for the cost of the 2011 option that the Yanks might swoop in and give him the full option amount for 2011? With that porch he'd hit 40-45 just playing against righties.

[Spudboy]

No one sees the possibility that if the Sox lowball Ortiz and try to get two years from him for the cost of the 2011 option that the Yanks might not swoop in and give him the full option amount for 2011? With that porch he'd hit 40-45 just playing against righties.

 

:lol:

 

I want him back at 2/14 -2/18. 7-9/yr.

 

Other than that, let him walk.

[Station 13]

:lol:

 

I want him back at 2/14 -2/18. 7-9/yr.

 

Other than that, let him walk.

 

Sounds good for me.

 

A year to year is the way to go. Ortiz of course will be pissed.

[Yaz Sideburn]

No one sees the possibility that if the Sox lowball Ortiz and try to get two years from him for the cost of the 2011 option that the Yanks might not swoop in and give him the full option amount for 2011? With that porch he'd hit 40-45 just playing against righties.

 

 

not too worried about it

[a700hitter]

:lol:

 

I want him back at 2/14 -2/18. 7-9/yr.

 

Other than that, let him walk.

I think he takes 2/18. I think 2/12, he walks to the Bronx. Would the *******s boo him if that happens?

[Yaz Sideburn]

I think he takes 2/18. I think 2/12' date=' he walks to the Bronx. Would the *******s boo him if that happens?[/quote']

 

i wouldn't be all that upset if he went to the yankees

[a700hitter]

i wouldn't be all that upset if he went to the yankees

I would be. He'd probably launch 6 or more bombs against just Lackey and Beckett.